a former Evangelical "born again" explains why Protestantism isn't true, page 7


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reply posted on 26-1-2013 @ 04:46 AM by Itisnowagain
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen




I'm not saying that physicists and mathematicians aren't atheists, just that they have a lower rate, and that there's a reason for it, the same reason that I'm not an atheist. That's a rational reason, I'm just asking why you think that it's irrational to even consider it, as your post stated.


First off, my statement of an all-knowing, mystical magical being is right up there with stories of Alice in Wonderland and Wizard of Oz. Why don't you believe these stories, too? If you find them to be purely fictional, then what part of your rational mind can separate the god story from the others? It is completely irrational to believe in a white rabbit carrying a pocket watch, magic ruby slippers, or a man walking on water. All of these stories are literary nonsense.


The Wizard of Oz and Alice in Wonderland are very deep but not everyone understands their meaning - a bit like the bible really.
Have you read either of the books you have mentioned and tried to understand the philosophy behind them? If not you can always go online and find out.
edit on 26-1-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 26-1-2013 @ 11:12 AM by adjensen
Wait a second, did you really just say "God says we're supposed to love each other, we don't and the world sucks as a result"?


Don't think so. I thought I getting at how, through the belief in a god, over six billion people have been teaching and preaching love. The point is, there are 7 billion people, so if 90% of them are religious, who is destroying the planet?

Where is the evidence that billions of people, religious or not, are actually following the teachings of God, and, more to the point, where is the evidence that the decision makers, the ones who declare wars and run countries and economies, are following God's teachings? I follow God's teachings, treat those around me well, and am charitable and loving, but my impact on world peace is essentially zero.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen


I'm not saying that physicists and mathematicians aren't atheists, just that they have a lower rate, and that there's a reason for it, the same reason that I'm not an atheist. That's a rational reason, I'm just asking why you think that it's irrational to even consider it, as your post stated.


First off, my statement of an all-knowing, mystical magical being is right up there with stories of Alice in Wonderland and Wizard of Oz. Why don't you believe these stories, too?

Well, you've two problems there. First, those books are written works of fiction and have never been presented as anything but that. The fact that you don't believe that Christ walked on water doesn't make it fictional for anyone but you, and it doesn't alter the fact of whether he did or he didn't. To think otherwise is irrational.

Secondly, in an essentially infinite universe, of which our knowledge is, essentially, zero, it is similarly irrational to dispute that somewhere, somewhen, there may be, have been, or will be rabbits with pocket watches or flying monkeys.

You're stuck in a mindframe that says "all there is is what is before me, that I can personally witness, measure and attest to", and that's not a reasonable perspective, at least on "big picture" things that are not (and cannot be) limited to what is before you.


reply posted on 26-1-2013 @ 03:36 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen




Where is the evidence that billions of people, religious or not, are actually following the teachings of God,


That's my point, Ad. Over five thousand years of spreading religion and the belief in an all-loving god, where are the 6 billion believers? Well, they're in the governments and controlling the people. They're the soldiers doing the killing. They're the greedy businessmen. They're in the mafias. They are fishing out the oceans, committing murder...

The point is, where's the good that should have come from all of this? If there is one logical point in the bible, it's that only 144,000 (I think that's the number) will enter into the kingdom of god. This makes sense seeing as the billions of so-called believers on this planet today are actually working for Satan (if you believe in that kind of stuff).


reply posted on 26-1-2013 @ 03:53 PM by adjensen
Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen




Where is the evidence that billions of people, religious or not, are actually following the teachings of God,


That's my point, Ad. Over five thousand years of spreading religion and the belief in an all-loving god, where are the 6 billion believers? Well, they're in the governments and controlling the people. They're the soldiers doing the killing. They're the greedy businessmen. They're in the mafias. They are fishing out the oceans, committing murder...

Again, people behaving poorly is neither God's fault, nor does it say anything about his existence or non-existence. And, in the end, there are many more people who do not behave badly than there are those who are murderers, thieves and selfish jerks.

The point is, where's the good that should have come from all of this? If there is one logical point in the bible, it's that only 144,000 (I think that's the number) will enter into the kingdom of god.

Unless you're a Jehovah's Witness, that number means nothing, as far as those who will enter the Kingdom of God. It is open to everyone and anyone, and there are some views of God (the Quakers and Universalists are the largest) who say that, in the end, God saves everyone.


reply posted on 26-1-2013 @ 04:27 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen




You're stuck in a mindframe that says "all there is is what is before me,


Not at all, my friend. Though highly improbable I cannot state matter-of-factly that there is no designer. Was this universe created for a purpose, I can't say 'no'.

What I am very comfortable saying is there is no god. I can say this because there is no such thing as 'perfect'. Nothing can be perfect; it's impossible.

On the highly improbable scale, through religion we are taught that we are born with sin. We are sick, and only through Jesus or god can we be made healthy, but as sick as we are in god's eyes he still created the universe just for us? I seriously doubt it.


reply posted on 26-1-2013 @ 04:36 PM by jiggerj
reply to post by adjensen




Again, people behaving poorly is neither God's fault, nor does it say anything about his existence or non-existence. And, in the end, there are many more people who do not behave badly than there are those who are murderers, thieves and selfish jerks.


My point was, if god's supposed message isn't getting through, then what's the point?

On those who do not behave badly: When thinking on the phrase, Those who are not with me are against me, I get the impression this implies that those good people aren't good in the eyes of god because they're not actively spreading peace, love, and goodwill all over the world. What good is being good if one does nothing with it?


reply posted on 26-1-2013 @ 05:41 PM by jiggerj

The message is love, compassion, truth, understanding, and humility. This simple message is suffice for the world but we have allowed the convolution of this simple message into precepts upon precepts upon precepts upon precepts and so on.
reply to post by DelayedChristmas


And I'm saying that a perfect god could only give us a perfect message that cannot be adulterated in any way, no matter how imperfect we are.

If there is a message out there that concerns us, it's this: To be human is to hate as well as love, to be cruel as well as to show mercy, to be ignorant on some matters while understanding other matters. We are humble at times, and prideful at times. We can be peaceful at times, and war-like at times. We cannot be anything more, or anything less, than what defines the animal known as human.
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