Real Talk - American Civil War

Its time for

The 1st Peoples Continental Congress.

And decide what we want our future to be.

We may decide to tell our current government they are fired

We may not

But either way they will respect our decision or

They will be treated to the same actions as our ancestor used in making this country free.

Originally posted by Advantage

Some may advocate "overthrowing" the government, but most Americans simply demand a return to our constitution and to our origins. I dont know in what reality that is seen as a call to overthrow the government.. unless you/they are unfamiliar with our actual domestic and foreign issues. I feel that our government has been overthrown, most of us simpy want a return to what our government was before this coup, and this link you posted should speak to them more than to we the people. If you wish to post law, post it to those who broke federal law and who are proposing to pick and choose which federal law they wish to uphold or disregard.

edit on 11-1-2013 by Advantage because: (no reason given)

What you said!
On 9/11 Bush invoked emergency powers which have been quietly renewed every 2 years without much ado by the press. We've been living under this declaration for the last 11 years, all to stop the "terrorists" who never bothered to attack us again.

fandalism.com...


This is the other topic, but, many of those being on confederate side, previously fought for the US independance?
What was the real reason for that war, 1861-1865? Slavery?
It was a very clear deviding line between the sides, as it was on some ethnical basis?
Is there something we don't know about, especialy, we the foreigners?
Me, personaly, I am for USA as a federal country, consisting of its states, each having its own sovereignty, where federation has its juristiction in areas prescribed by the constitution and laws, and states in its...
Surely I am against any kind of slavery and cruel punishments...
Surely, federation is represented in international institutions, providing monetar politics, taking care on army, and similar, and states can make their own relations with foreing countries, in areas prescribed by the constitution and laws. Army is only one, for all states of federation, and it is under federal jurisdiction. The same as some federal interior units.
That is definition of federal country, isn't it?

You're right... there will always be issues where no compromise can be found. Our society here in America, a Constitutional Republic, is based on the fact that the Constitution is the supreme law of the land. That is the ultimate check and balance. The Constitution keeps everyone on an even playing field in regards to law, but what happens when corruption slowly works it's way into the system? Over the last 100 years Progressivism has worked ever so slowly at making the Constitution irrelevant, and it has done a fine job. When the people of America who support the corruption outnumber those who do not there is no going back. The last election shows that we as a society are there, so now what? I like your idea of like minded people moving to the same state... that really would help fortify our Constitutional position, but the truth is that is much easier said than done, especially from a financial point of view. The fact of the matter is, the corrupt elite want a civil war, and they are counting on it in order to move their authoritarian agenda forward. Dark days lie ahead, and we haven't seen bad yet... "with firm reliance on the protection of divine providence" is how the Declaration ends... we need to call upon this divine providence again, for that is the only way we come out of this.

Originally posted by Helious
Greetings ATS,



Consider this, if those that would take up arms should legislation that is unconstitutional and illegal be put in place and your plan is to take up arms anyway, then, at that point you are all in anyway and would you not try one last thing to avoid bloodshed, most probably your own to achieve the goal of restoring our liberty? Those that can not live with unjust and illegal law, should before violence seek out states that are strongholds for the constitution en mass. If we all do this, we can effect change through peacfull non compliance with federal law while being protected by the state, and each other.

But isn't that what put us where we are now? Bush went all gun hoe over seas, then Obama stepped in with his plans an ideals. Just to turn around with laws an bills that go against our rights AN try to take our arms away so us, the Citizens, that actually take notice in whats happening, try an make a difference ourselves an go kick the White House's front door down.

reply to post by Screwed


I'm all for the fight to make whats wronged right. I'm the son of a Marine, I stand by what he feels is right. Personally I don't like the way # has played out over the years, an we both think that a Revolution prt 2 will kick off very soon, an it will be a very bloody one...the Earth is too populated.

reply to post by Helious


Very well written OP. There are a few things to keep in mind. First, TPTB have been planning this far longer than any of us would care to admit. They are patient and are willing to take a little here and then take a litte there. In my opinion the dye is cast and there is no turning back. As Eric H said in 1995 they have to brainwash people on the gun issue the same way they did with cigarettes. Look at the cost of a pack of smokes now compared to 20 years ago.

They don't care what the states say. I like the idea of going to the state level, the problem with that is just like you said. The country, states and even towns are divided 50/50. If there is a civil war then it will be a street to street or neighborhood level event. It will be one hell of a mess.

As a father and future grandfather I don't want war, but I do want a free America for my childrens children. Its is time to rid this country of the unconsitutional people that have hide behind the freedoms provided by the consition. The consitution is not something that can be taken in bits in pieces its all or none. If you have freedome of speach then you have the right to have bare arms.

no leader.it text old soviet song translate.google.ru... vysockij in them

"I am not a pacifist and I would fight to defend the constitution, liberty and freedom, I am no coward but it seems to me that there may be another way and that way is to use the 10th amendment like it hasn't been used since our first civil war and the people who really care, who want to affect change, should do so to at least try to prevent violence if it is avoidable. If enough of us pack our bags, our families and our lives and head to the places they still honor freedom, we may find ourselves with better company and a little more security when we lay our heads down at night. "

Well said, Helious. This is what those who seek secession/ partition are trying to accomplish- peacefully. There are divisions in America which are so extreme, so antithetical to one another that they cannot be breached. There is no reason that an amicable split cannot be reached.
It is a toxic relationship & time for a divorce. It doesn't matter who is "at fault".

reply to post by HenryNorris


The Federal Gov. debt is the states debt. Secession would not keep creditors away...

Good OP and great thread so far.

As to what I will or would do? I don't know. I do believe, however, that if it comes to violence, the people should not make the first move against the Government. Drawing first blood would make it easier to paint those that did as "terrorists" or "extremists". The flaw in that lies in whether or not the government would make a blatant move against the people. If they did, then those who would be left defending their rights would be painted in a better light for the rest of the world. However, if Patriots were to strike first, it would be very easy to paint them in a malicious light and convince the rest of the world that the government is right in eliminating them.

So, having said that, I hope we can find a peaceful way to solve the problem, as I do not want to fight a war at home. I pray that we all try any and all non-violent means, and only consider the possibility of an all out revolution after all peaceful ways have been exhausted.

However, If one was to see DHS (or any other alphabet agency) agents rousting their neighbors out in the middle of the night and carting them off for owning firearms or whatever, one would be very hard pressed not to act, if one was a supporter of our rights as stated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Originally posted by Panic2k11
reply to post by HenryNorris

 

The Federal Gov. debt is the states debt. Secession would not keep creditors away...

It depends. There are no rules governing a scenario where the borrowing entity ceases to exist.

If any of the states wants the privileges enjoyed by the entity, which was the debtor, then it would have to necessarily accept the obligations of its predecessor too. This is what happened when the USSR ceased to exist. Russia claimed and was recognised as the successor to the USSR with all the privileges and obligations of the USSR transferred to Russia.

If any of the successor states wants the UNSC seat, it may have to take on the debt. If none care, there is nothing the creditors can do. Usually all debts are forgiven when there is even a regime change.

However the debt forgiveness comes at a price, inability to make new debt. But that shouldn't worry those that intend to live within their means.

Just remember the Charters of Freedom;

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776

Originally posted by dave_welch
As to what I will or would do? I don't know. I do believe, however, that if it comes to violence, the people should not make the first move against the Government. Drawing first blood would make it easier to paint those that did as "terrorists" or "extremists". The flaw in that lies in whether or not the government would make a blatant move against the people. If they did, then those who would be left defending their rights would be painted in a better light for the rest of the world. However, if Patriots were to strike first, it would be very easy to paint them in a malicious light and convince the rest of the world that the government is right in eliminating them.

Why would you care how the ousiders would perceive a violent revolution? They will have to deal with the victors whoever they may be. Since no outside power or the combination of them has the capability to influence outcome by taking sides, it is very likely they will wait for a decisive outcome, instead of condemning one side.

So, having said that, I hope we can find a peaceful way to solve the problem, as I do not want to fight a war at home. I pray that we all try any and all non-violent means, and only consider the possibility of an all out revolution after all peaceful ways have been exhausted.

But, of course! But the key is when does someone determine all peaceful options have been exhausted.

However, If one was to see DHS (or any other alphabet agency) agents rousting their neighbors out in the middle of the night and carting them off for owning firearms or whatever, one would be very hard pressed not to act, if one was a supporter of our rights as stated in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

You can be sure they would come during broad day light to arrest those who have fallen foul of the gun regulation laws. Would you still come to the rescue of the neighbour?

Originally posted by Helious
If we all do this, we can effect change through peaceful non compliance with federal law while being protected by the state, and each other.

The federal government will not seek to enforce illegal laws in states that have outlawed such federal legislation based on blatant non compliance of the constitution and are willing to pledge there law enforcement officers, sheriffs and volunteers of the community to arrest and federal employees trying to do so.

Peaceful non-compliance with federal law? Explain that to me when the federals send team in black pajamas to kill your dogs, your family members ... and you.

The states offer no reprieve from tyranny as they have gotten just as bad as the federals. It appears that once a government, any government, grows beyond a certain size, it seeks power and to perpetuate itself at the expense of it's people. Our freedom-loving-state had guards torture and kill children at a detention school. In another event, guards at a sheriff's boot camp beat a 14 year old kid to death. All the perps got off scot-free in the end. In another incident, a cop that routinely joy rides at 100 MPH+ was stopped and ticketed by another cop. The cop that gave the ticket is being threatened.

All it takes is a tiny bit of cancer to spread and kill the parent organism. That cancer started 100+ years ago with the federal government.

Originally posted by Observor

Why would you care how the ousiders would perceive a violent revolution? They will have to deal with the victors whoever they may be. Since no outside power or the combination of them has the capability to influence outcome by taking sides, it is very likely they will wait for a decisive outcome, instead of condemning one side.

Because sympathy for the freedom fighters could bring support from foreign militaries.

But, of course! But the key is when does someone determine all peaceful options have been exhausted.

Therein lies the problem, and that's what we should be trying to figure out.

You can be sure they would come during broad day light to arrest those who have fallen foul of the gun regulation laws. Would you still come to the rescue of the neighbour?

Time of day is irrelevant really, in fact, in broad daylight more people will see it, possibly calling those people to act. I mean it's all hypothetical really, but that's my opinion.

I hope I didn't miss any of your responses, as I was trying to delete all of my stuff to make it a shorter read.

Originally posted by dave_welch
Because sympathy for the freedom fighters could bring support from foreign militaries.

Exactly how many countries militarily supported Iraqis when the US invaded it? It will be the same number that will support the "freedom fighters" in a US civil war.

Time of day is irrelevant really, in fact, in broad daylight more people will see it, possibly calling those people to act. I mean it's all hypothetical really, but that's my opinion.

The US government is not afraid of implementing its laws, whether you agree with them or not. So they don't have to sneak in the middle of the night to do it. I don't think they care how many see it.

reply to post by Observor


I agree in part but am not sure that you can bank on that. Russia was royally f# by the US going into the Perestroika. One needs to understand that the US has its fingers into all the cakes IMF, World Bank if the US defaults I can't see that gigantic debt be simply forgiven, especially by emerging nations.

This also raises the issue of security and costs of maintaining the nuclear arsenal, we all saw what happened in the Soviet Union. These and even internal security considerations like Florida declaring war on Cuba (example) or northern parts of the US going to Canada and in the South to Mexico.

I want to believe that it will all work out guys . Being from Mass the once rebelious Boston tea party boys has now turned into a welfare state with the middle class being crushed out of exsistance to support Gov Deval L. Patrick dream of the perfect state of unarmed welfare rats and hi power business men. I can tell you that alot of us that are left are strong Constitutionalists, more than you would think. Confiscation is the line in the sand for alot of people. Regulation well we are pretty regulated out here,gun registration,assult weapon ban, 10 round limit,License to carry requires training,back ground checks,police chief interviews and so on. It doesnt work bad guys still have guns. The wife and I talk all the time about leaving, not because of the gun stuff but because pay has stagnated ,prices rise every day and honestly living with people who think they are owed something because they have been raised to expect it, is getting rather tiresome. If the stuff hits the fan this place will be a mess becuase half the population here has never worked. Im worried for my kids where this countrys going. Half of my kids friends are out of college with no jobs to go to with huge student loans, if your on welfare you go for free. I dont want a revolution but our kids deserve to have it better than we did.

Bill

Originally posted by Observor

Originally posted by dave_welch
Because sympathy for the freedom fighters could bring support from foreign militaries.

Exactly how many countries militarily supported Iraqis when the US invaded it? It will be the same number that will support the "freedom fighters" in a US civil war.

Time of day is irrelevant really, in fact, in broad daylight more people will see it, possibly calling those people to act. I mean it's all hypothetical really, but that's my opinion.

The US government is not afraid of implementing its laws, whether you agree with them or not. So they don't have to sneak in the middle of the night to do it. I don't think they care how many see it.

There would have been no benefit in helping Iraqis against the US. However, if another country, say China, were to help the resistance, they would be in a good position to set they're appointed people up in the new government.

The more people see it taking place, the more people that will want to act against it, that's how revolutions start.