Real Talk - American Civil War

Greetings ATS,

I speak to you today on edge, as I think many of us are with recent events and the ramifications and implications of those events weighing heavily on my shoulders. I will speak my mind on this subject in a straight forward manner without letting my emotions or patriotism get in the way of my rational thinking, or at the very least.... I will try.

I am starting to feel a very distinct rift in America, it feels divided and leaderless, it is almost like high school with all the different groups eating lunch at there own table, all the while never realizing they are attending the same school. It is disheartening on many levels and it is a real shame it has come to this but that does not change the fact that there seems to be issues that large groups of Americans are not able to compromise on.

The answer to this is actually very simple in speech but I fear it is much harder to accomplish in practice but I fear it is the only way to stop people from both sides from turning to violence out of anger and fear, this of course is only my opinion and in saying that, take it for what it's worth to you.

The United States is and has always been a republic and states rights were very important to our forefathers for a reason. At any given time in history, Americans are bound to be divided on certain issues and in rare occasion, these divides can and sometimes will be irreconcilable, so, what are we to do without arming ourselves and shooting each other? It's a tough question that we should't have to ask ourselves, yet here we are.

Being a republic and being afforded and protected by the one true law we all share as Americans, the constitution, the states themselves can stop the federal government from over reaching on there power, they can and must be the last defense against tyranny because none of us as individuals can do so without well regulated militias, organization, training and leadership. We do not have these things, we have not for some time but the patriot act has assured that we could not create such in the dwindling economy and overstretched laws that quickly followed without being labeled as domestic terrorists instead of normal Americans who live by the law, the real law our country was founded on and for.

Consider this, if those that would take up arms should legislation that is unconstitutional and illegal be put in place and your plan is to take up arms anyway, then, at that point you are all in anyway and would you not try one last thing to avoid bloodshed, most probably your own to achieve the goal of restoring our liberty? Those that can not live with unjust and illegal law, should before violence seek out states that are strongholds for the constitution en mass. If we all do this, we can effect change through peacfull non compliance with federal law while being protected by the state, and each other.

The federal government will not seek to enforce illegal laws in states that have outlawed such federal legislation based on blatant non compliance of the constitution and are willing to pledge there law enforcement officers, sheriffs and volunteers of the community to arrest and federal employees trying to do so. If the population really will split 50/50 of such an issue as we have been presented the past month, perhaps it is best we all try going our own way and leaving each other alone before we consider violence as nothing I could imagine could be worse than Americans killing Americans for political ideology.

I am not a pacifist and I would fight to defend the constitution, liberty and freedom, I am no coward but it seems to me that there may be another way and that way is to use the 10th amendment like it hasn't been used since our first civil war and the people who really care, who want to affect change, should do so to at least try to prevent violence if it is avoidable. If enough of us pack our bags, our families and our lives and head to the places they still honor freedom, we may find ourselves with better company and a little more security when we lay our heads down at night.

This is all just my opinion and for me, it's real talk.

S&F. the more options and plans that are discussed the better.

This is all good and well but,

There are too many people that WANT to go out in a blaze of glory so to speak.
There are too many people who WANT to kill.
There are too many people who WANT a revolution.

Once THESE people kick it all off,
then we are ALL going to have a BIG choice to make.

Yer either ferr 'em or agin' 'em.

Now then,
where will YOU stand?

Originally posted by Screwed
This is all good and well but,

There are too many people that WANT to go out in a blaze of glory so to speak.
There are too many people who WANT to kill.
There are too many people who WANT a revolution.

Once THESE people kick it all off,
then we are ALL going to have a BIG choice to make.

Yer either ferr 'em or agin' 'em.

Now then,
where will YOU stand?

Thats a good question, one that hopefully I won't have to make on a moments notice. I have a family and I love them dearly but I being who I am personally would rather die free than live as a slave. Would I watch my countryman die one by one as SWAT teams kicked down doors and converged on non compliance persons? If that is the question, it's not fair to ask what I would do in a forum as I think that choice for all of us can and must be made in and at the moment.

reply to post by Helious


I think that would fall right into "their" hands.

Once you get all the "gun nuts" into the obviously "redneck" states it's easy to see where the battle lines are.

Once people start moving you know the civil war will soon follow.

reply to post by Helious


Ohhh, to be sure.
It was a rhetorical question.
I feel your pain and I know where you are coming from.

My point was, YOU and I aren't going to be the ones who choose to kick this thing off.
We are just going to have to choose where we stand AFTER it DOES get kicked off.

I just hope that, if fighting starts, all Americans can remember who the real enemies are.

The Congress. And all who collude with them.

EVERY SINGLE ONE NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED AND/OR ARRESTED.

Honestly, it should be the Joint Chiefs of staff to begin proceedings.

Just my opinion. snf

Originally posted by Another_Nut
reply to post by Helious

 

I think that would fall right into "their" hands.

Once you get all the "gun nuts" into the obviously "redneck" states it's easy to see where the battle lines are.

Once people start moving you know the civil war will soon follow.

I think you may be surprised at some of the states that would draw the line in the sand on the assault on the second amendment. They just may not all be "redneck" states. Wyoming is rural but I don't think it's a redneck state and there going to bat. There are other states that have large populations of people that don't live the way the rest of us do, perhaps..... Not so fast and as such still have a better idea about smaller government, constitutional values, living and working from the land and not wanting invasive federal government.

Of course, this is all conjecture but it is educated conjecture based on over 200 years of tradition and knowing that more Americans still believe in the constitution than do not although admittedly, I think the margin grows thinner by the day thanks to the MSM and corporate agenda.

What we need to consider is re-establishing the old Liberty Tree system, and getting states to start talking about, what we as a people want to do.

Before some nut goes off and makes a video threatening to kill people, if the president goes further...in turn getting others and their feathers ruffled as well.

Oh wait...already happened.

So, considering the potential and pressuring issue.

I point towards a similar discussion... ---> The Spirit of Resistance- An American Civil Revolution

reply to post by Helious


I was thinking the same thing a while ago. After watching Mr. Yeager's video and how many support him it makes me wonder what would happen if a state goverment followed suit and urged its citizens to resist this illegal and treasonous act. I think this could snowball out of control.

reply to post by Helious


I wouldn't be surprised by any state joining in a stand for our rights

I would be surprised if at some point those states wernt also labeled

Gun nuts terrorists rednecks ...etc . Im sure you will hear them all .

reply to post by Helious

do so without well regulated militias, organization, training and leadership

we dont have these things and the powers that be have all these things. and have had these things for years. so long in fact that men and women that have been a part of the goverment war machine have left the war machine and now live amongst us. whomever joins the fight against the tptb would do well to seek out the elders that have known there enemy because they once were the enemy before they were the enemy. And if our recent past wars are any indication of how some veterans feel of the war machine there will be ones that seek out the rebels and defend the people at all costs,

and what hacker doesn't want to fight the man, tech-men will be found in the search by civilian leaders and recruited.

who doesn't love home field advantage, if a civil war broke out rebels vs feds most likely all deployed to a rebel zone will be attacking a group of locals who know there land and there back roads and general local knowledge of which will serve them well. and i believe that American feds will not napalm or destroy there own resources to kill a few natives, they will be forced into a ground war which will take away from the feds there superior mass destruction weapons.

and as the feds kill civilians more will join the cause, when they watch there brothers and sisters die. death only warrants more death.

and finnaley what contending super power is not waiting for when the federal american goverment is busy with and internal war. they will strike when america is preoccupied and may even side with the rebels just as america has sided with the rebels in times of late.

if the feds turn on the people they will not have an easy confrontation, and it may even lead to there own demise.


and not to mention local leaders will know were to take out federal infrastructures

and then there is always mercenary's foreign or local.

i think you dont give civilians much credit

reply to post by ADVISOR


We the people, should first, try to win states that applaud freedom and will uphold liberty in so far as resisting tyrannical and illegal actions by the federal government. In doing so, you reaffirm the republic and make a clear statement that the will of the people under protection of state law...... Just law as confirmed by the constitution and those that inhabit and defend that state refuse illegitimate laws passed by congress or executive order that are in DIRECT conflict with our constitution.

If that does not work, nor affect change, then God help us all because I don't know what or who else can. A law that is in direct conflict with our constitution is not legal, no matter how many people with guns at your doorstep tell you it is.

I would like to think it was that simple. I wouldn't mind seeing the West coast and North East break off as their own little socialist America, and let everyone else reclaim a free USA.

If it came down to moving to a state that decided to remain free, I would providing I had the means.

I think if that were the last resort, the feds would not accept a State trying to not respect their 'supremacy' and they would try to withhold funds and reimbursements etc. This would force the State or collective of states to declare independence. We all know how the federal government takes to trying to leave the family. So we end up in a fighting situation anyway.

If things were to come to fighting, with or without trying to relocate to free states, any civil war would not be some liberal v conservative gun battle. The majority of conservatives would take defensive positions, protecting their property and families. Liberals would take on the roles of informants and double agents, especially in exchange for more goods and services from uncle sam. There would only be a handful of lone wolf and gang groups who would take direct action against the federal government, with little to no effect.

Modern technology and the lack of defined territory would make any war difficult and simply horrific.

reply to post by Helious


I get what your saying.

And that is why each state has it's own Constitution, keep that in mind.

U.S. State Constitutions

versus

U.S. Constitution

reply to post by Helious


and

gorrila warfare is not an easy fight for either side and never has been

Also keep in mind that the feds don't care about your state constitution or laws.

Ask legal medicinal marijuana growers how they are treated by the feds.

this is why im all for people being armed

And not just guns

We need rpgs grenades planes tanks drones

and we need them fast

Originally posted by Screwed
reply to post by Helious

 

Ohhh, to be sure.
It was a rhetorical question.
I feel your pain and I know where you are coming from.

My point was, YOU and I aren't going to be the ones who choose to kick this thing off.
We are just going to have to choose where we stand AFTER it DOES get kicked off.

Many will likely choose sides more than once. There wouldn't be a civil war or revolution with armies facing off against each other. The government would be fighting a faceless enemy who blends in and is part of the population as a whole. The only way a government has to fight that is crack down on the population in order to make it harder for revolutionaries to operate. They have to take away freedom of speech, freedom of travel, freedom against unreasonable search & seizure. The governments actions would quickly inflame more people.

reply to post by Helious

...people from both sides from turning to violence out of anger and fear...

Lets trust that this won't be so, it'll be a sad passage of history for the US were it to turn out this way.

From an outsiders perspective, it appears that the 2nd amendment could fast become for the citizens of the US, their own worst enemy... now, whether this is recently by design or not, who knows??

Suggesting that like minded citizens collectively migrate to states that unbendingly uphold the constitution is a novel thought and a possible long term outcome, yet it would more than likely be a proceeding result of division and bloodshed rather than a preemptive shift.

... and yeah, it seems that current events and the coming months just may provide an environment for impetuous change.

If I were a DICKtater.. ... What I would do was make good use of a tragedy, make an over the top move ( threaten EO .. through a lackey) and then backpedal. Gives folks a sigh of relief while you come blazing through the back door. Youd not take the weapon, but the ammo. We are already hearing of ammo shortages ( which IMO are completely fabricated stories) Ammo buy ups, and the brass thats been confiscated for several yrs and the ATF confiscating certain bullets from manufacturers ( like Elite Ammunition). Im sure you all already know about the raids on gun repairmen who just happen to reload. This is the most easy way to effectively "ban" guns. Its also the way that more than they can imagine will become "criminals" overnight.
If you think about it, there is no way they can do a door to door confiscation. How many staties do you think they have to go around? How many local cops can handle that and the must have revenue producing crap a mayor forces? Posse will prevent mil confiscation. Even in a disaster, they would be hard pressed to door to door confiscate. Dont even pretend Katrina was a true gun grab. One thing that would be easy to do is make your firearm a nice useless doorstop.

What a lot dont get is that with this big gun grab some are wishing for so badly ( either because they hate guns and gun owners or they simply want to kill and have a so-called civil war) they wont be lining up dems and "other" into different lines for confiscations.. and there are a multitude of lifelong democrats that are gun owners and truly recognize and cherish our rights.