A New Interpretation (The message confiscated by the church)

reply to post by tgalahan2

The Bible is NOT the Word of God, as JESUS is the Word of God and Jesus is NOT the Bible.

Actually, he's both. He is the Torah (Teaching) and he is the Word and they are one. To understand this concept you'd have to embrace the jewish concepts christianity was based upon. Everything we are and do was foreshadowed in the first Torah, but there are two Torahs. First Torah was the law of the Flesh, second Torah is the law of the Spirit. The law of the Spirit replaced the law of the Flesh, because fleshly works alone are not good enough.

The Word is the Son of God, and the Son of God is the physical manifestation of the Father in this world. He is the Glory of God, and God's Power manifested. and not for the first time. Who and what Christ is, is symbolized in the Ark of the Covenant, and the Temple, and the Bride of Christ which is the Body of Christ is symbolized as the future New Jerusalem. This is what Adam and Eve represented.

reply to post by Akragon


Yea, I just read that the other day. Not sure why I didn't remember it.


But it made sense to me then how he meant it. He is not really saying we are his brothers, as in equal position under the Father...

He is proving a point here, that his real "Brothers" are not necessarily those in his family, but those who are of the same Faith and do the will of the Lord.

Again, I still challenge you to show me where the Bible says he's our brother.

Something along the lines of "Christ, our Everlasting Brother" etc...


You really misunderstood his point.


He is not our brother


And YOU, my friend, at least I am not sure you are my friend, are incorrect about scripture.


The Bible CALLS Jesus God more than one time.

So you don't believe the Bible, Scripture? I'd check thoroughly to make sure you're correct.


"In the beginning was the Word" --- "The Word was God"

"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us known as the only begotten of the Father."


And you say the Bible doesn't say he's God?


How ridiculous.

Not only that, but Titus refers to him as God.


Not only that but Jesus says "I and the Father are one"

and also, "I do nothing on my own" .... now, "I do nothing on my own" may not seem like much at first. But thhink about "The Truth" making this statement.


What are you if you do absolutely NOTHING on your own? As in, can't. Don't blink an eye, don't lift a finger on your own.

What are you? You're that thing which is doing it for you.



Jesus, as the last poster stated, IS the Father incarnate. Do you NOT know Jesus? It would seem you don't. He would have made it very clear to you by now that he IS most definitely God, and the Father incarnate.


stuff like "Only the Father knows the day and hour, not even the Son knows" There is good reason for this, and faith in Jesus as what he claims to be would have covered it if you had been listening properly.

Jesus was here to undergo a tribulation. If he were entirely enthroned in Heaven with all the Knowledge of Himself in Heaven when he did this, it would not have been a possible task.

As you cannot be God and have Tribulation, therefore God became a Man to have Tribulation.

God became a Man. But God is God. Jesus was the Man God Became. Jesus.... is God.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


No, you're not understanding. Yes, I was bit incorrect at "challenging" you to point that out to me, because he did indeed say that.


But you're not understanding Jesus' point. He was expressing something very certain.


Really.... I didn't consider something.... hey, I'm not perfect...

And that is, the word "brother" has a wide array of depth here...

It can be taken multiple ways, if you are reading this verse with the Word of God, Jesus by your side, it will make sense.

I don't know how else to explain it.


Jesus is not our Brother, he is our Everlasting Father.

But... in his life... as the Son... when confronted with his Family and denying them, he wanted to show that the believers in the Lord were his brothers. But, that is not to say we are actually his "same level", "sibling level" brothers.

I well understand what he meant. very well. Having difficulty explaining it though, I'll just move on.


I'll move on after this. Find a place in the Bible where it gives a description as Jesus as our Brother, directly... and not (so much) expressively like he is doing there.

Remember, that Jesus just began his ministry at that point, too... so... I don't think he was quite laying down who he was yet.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1




No, you misunderstood what he meant. Simple as that.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


That goes to show if you want the truth stay with the old KJV . Its what the others supposedly used to make an easier to read bible . The NIV version is wrong and makes no sense . If you are to be killed by the sword you will be killed by the sword .WHAT?
If you were in a battle to the death with an apponent and he had 10 maniquines dressed like his soldiers with guns standing beside him , would you shoot at them ? Or would you fire on the real target that threatens you ?
Likewize Satan is not going to attack the decoy faiths , He is going after the real threat to him . Jesus Christ is the only opponent to Satan and that is why the compulsary study of Islam in total in the 7th grade the state Califorinia public schools was not a problem . The students had to study the Quran and its precepts of Islam ,learn about the principle founders of Islam ,pray in Islam , dress Islamic and plan a Jihad . The ACLU said it was the study of the Islamic culture . But ! The mere mention of Jesus will bring a law suit .
That should be a CLUE to people .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by tgalahan2

 

Have you ever heard of Preterism ? Those people believed for some odd reason that Tribulation and the Abomination of Desolation has already happened and the Rapture had already occured . This has absolutely nothing to do with the death and resurection of Christ . Yes they are working contrary to Christ .

Yes it does have to do with the resurrection of Chrit. I has to do with them getting the date for the ressurection of Christ wrong. The Tribulation and the Abomination of Desolation directly correlate and relate to the time that is the Ressurection of Christ, the rapture, the very end time, etc.... I'm not entirely sure what you're saying.


And yes, any who thought that, or thought that the resurection of Christ has occurred yet is working contrary to Christ. As many here are.

reply to post by SimonPeter


If the NIV is wrong then so is the KJV because they both tell the same exact story.

Yes, you're almost right. Jesus did call us brothers, yet we are not his brothers.



His Disciples were his brothers and his brethren, but not his brothers at the same time.



Confusing? It makes sense if you give it some thought. I should have clarified it initially.

For example, Brothers in faith and belief due to everyone being on earth that he said that to, they're all
going to experience the tribulation of the face, and therefore are brothers in the tribulation of faith.

This does not mean they are actual Brothers. Jesus is our Creator (in the flesh), not our brother.

Afterall, he is called "Son of Man" but, he is not our son, is he? Is he your son? no, is he my son? No


"Son of Man" means "Man Given to Man(kind) That is From God"


See, the word "Son" comes from Men. A Son is a man. Therefore, Jesus is a Son(a man) of man, from God.


Son literally means Man when it says "Son of Man" it would just be weird if it said "Man of Man"


yet, he is. The Man of Man.



(a man is a son, every man is a son. Jesus is a son/man given to us.)

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I have the belief that God the Father in who's image we are made will not live in this world under the same conditions or environment that he created for us to live in . If God did exist here under the same constraints of time as we do he would also age . So God put his spirit into flesh creating his Son to live and age right along with us and to die in the flesh as we will and to bring us Grace and Mercy as well as prove that man can live sinless and please him . I equate Jesus living sinless as God saying do as I do and not just as I say .

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

If the NIV is wrong then so is the KJV because they both tell the same exact story.

They're all wrong.


We live in an age where I doubt you can find original scripture. At the end of Revelations it states very clearly not to dot an I or change even a small little anything in the Bible or you are in great danger of Hell fire.

I think after all the changes people have made in the Bible over the centuries I think it's funny they haven't removed that very statement, a statement that condemns them.


So, yes, all Bibles are altered. To quite an extent. However! Using the Word of God (Jesus) by your side, in your relationship with him, and following him as "The Way" he will clearly show you what is and isn't true in the Bible, and what it means.


This is what the Word of God (Jesus) is most definitely Good for, for us.


You'll find, though... fortunately... using the Word of God (Jesus) to help guide you through the Bible, that... in fact... the main point is still held together, and you will still be able to get the message you need.


I personally reccommend comparing several different standard Bibles when researching and studying the Bible.


Use the main ones. Don't use Bibles that are made from people with very obviously false beliefs... such as Jehova's witnesses, and Mormons...


Other than that, and with some Guidance from the Lord, you will Find the right scripture (or enoughly so) and you will be just fine with that one or those few that you read (bibles).

reply to post by tgalahan2

But it made sense to me then how he meant it. He is not really saying we are his brothers, as in equal position under the Father...

He is proving a point here, that his real "Brothers" are not necessarily those in his family, but those who are of the same Faith and do the will of the Lord.

Again, I still challenge you to show me where the Bible says he's our brother.

Something along the lines of "Christ, our Everlasting Brother" etc...

Of course we're not equal to him... but he said that some are his "brothers" straight from his mouth...

I find it interesting that many people can attempt to tell me what he's really saying... as if what he said wasn't what he meant...

And YOU, my friend, at least I am not sure you are my friend, are incorrect about scripture.


The Bible CALLS Jesus God more than one time.

So you don't believe the Bible, Scripture? I'd check thoroughly to make sure you're correct.


"In the beginning was the Word" --- "The Word was God"

"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us known as the only begotten of the Father."

Yup... the bible calls him God, and many others did as well, even to this day... yet he did not ever make that claim... In fact he said his father is greater then he.... And when he said "I and my Father are one"... that does not mean one and the same... It means he is the essence of his father... as any son is of the essence of his parents.

Now... Who made this claim... "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us known as the only begotten of the Father"

Jesus or John?

And you say the Bible doesn't say he's God?


How ridiculous.

Not only that, but Titus refers to him as God.

Are you blinded by what you've been told by others?

What did he call himself?

The son of God specifically... Not God in the flesh...

Jesus, as the last poster stated, IS the Father incarnate. Do you NOT know Jesus? It would seem you don't. He would have made it very clear to you by now that he IS most definitely God, and the Father incarnate.

that same poster likes to claim that he is the Torah made flesh.... which is just wrong... but believe what you will...

stuff like "Only the Father knows the day and hour, not even the Son knows" There is good reason for this, and faith in Jesus as what he claims to be would have covered it if you had been listening properly.

Yes I have an issue with listening to others claims... I prefer to read it for myself...

God became a Man. But God is God. Jesus was the Man God Became. Jesus.... is God.

Again believe whatever you like... Jesus was only God to Christians, and the only way they come to that conclusion is by searching other books for answers... but he gave us the answer... He is the son of God...

Christianity made him God... By his own words he did not ever make that claim

reply to post by tgalahan2


I don't think we will be equal to Jesus by any means . I can assure you nobody but Jesus Christ will be at the Right Hand of God the Father .He is worthy!

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I have the belief that God the Father in who's image we are made will not live in this world under the same conditions or environment that he created for us to live in . If God did exist here under the same constraints of time as we do he would also age . So God put his spirit into flesh creating his Son to live and age right along with us and to die in the flesh as we will and to bring us Grace and Mercy as well as prove that man can live sinless and please him . I equate Jesus living sinless as God saying do as I do and not just as I say .

You're almost very correct! Awesome Job Simon Peter. Lol, I almost feel like Jesus being impressed with the actual Simon Peter with his accuracy in Faith and understanding. (I am not claiming be Christ or Jesus, I'm joking)

That was great, Simon Peter. I could feel the real love and truth flowing off of your words.


You said it just about exactly right! God wouldn't and won't and did not do something, yet he did!! at the same time.


While, the Father remained in Heaven, the Son (The Fleshly Incarnation of the Father) came to Earth.

So, the Father Did remain in heaven. But the Son is the Father, on Earth.

This is the mystery of the Trinity, the mystery of the trinity is not "how God mysteriously exists as three persons" like many false Trinitarians believe, the real mystery of the Trinity is how Jesus is God yet on Earth but in Heaven as the Father at the same time.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by tgalahan2

 

I don't think we will be equal to Jesus by any means . I can assure you nobody but Jesus Christ will be at the Right Hand of God the Father .He is worthy!

That's precisely what I'm saying.

Originally posted by tgalahan2
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

"The Bible is the Word of God. Some parts are literal, and some are parables. All are truth."


The Bible is NOT the Word of God, as JESUS is the Word of God and Jesus is NOT the Bible.

"all scripture is God-breathed" - From the Bible


"in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God" from the Bible

then later in the same chapter it says "and the word was made flesh and known to us as the only begotten of the Father"

Don't be obtuse. The Bible is the written Word. The quotes you offer even show that the Bible is the Word of God. "The Word was God". If the Bible contains the Words, that doesn't mean God is a book; it means the book is of God. Playing foolish semantics games isn't helping you.

Originally posted by tgalahan2
And also, if you claim that all things are true in the Bible. Then you should be very submissive to what I'm telling you,
if you are indeed a woman. Because, I am a man.

Nice try, but that is wives to husbands, not all women to all men.

Originally posted by tgalahan2
I want to hear nothing in disagreement about this very post from you, LadyGreenEyes.

Get over it.

reply to post by Akragon

Jesus and God were one in the respect that they were one at heart . They were one in spirit . There was no division in their will . Then there is that God the Father whom Jesus prayed to while he was on earth . God put his seed into the Virgin and brought forth Immanuel which means God with us .

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus and God were one in the respect that they were one at heart . They were one in spirit . There was no division in their will . Then there is that God the Father whom Jesus prayed to while he was on earth . God put his seed into the Virgin and brought forth Immanuel which means God with us .

No argument there...

Names given by men mean nothing though... he was also called a drunkard... who mingled with whores and sinners by men... Does that make it true?

Jesus and the Father are one... yet two separate entities... The Father and the son....

They are not the same "person" if you choose to call God a person, which I do not

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by tgalahan2

 

[
Now... Who made this claim... "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us known as the only begotten of the Father"

Jesus or John?

And you say the Bible doesn't say he's God?


How ridiculous.

Not only that, but Titus refers to him as God.

Are you blinded by what you've been told by others?

What did he call himself?

The son of God specifically... Not God in the flesh...

Jesus, as the last poster stated, IS the Father incarnate. Do you NOT know Jesus? It would seem you don't. He would have made it very clear to you by now that he IS most definitely God, and the Father incarnate.

that same poster likes to claim that he is the Torah made flesh.... which is just wrong... but believe what you will...

stuff like "Only the Father knows the day and hour, not even the Son knows" There is good reason for this, and faith in Jesus as what he claims to be would have covered it if you had been listening properly.

Yes I have an issue with listening to others claims... I prefer to read it for myself...

God became a Man. But God is God. Jesus was the Man God Became. Jesus.... is God.

Again believe whatever you like... Jesus was only God to Christians, and the only way they come to that conclusion is by searching other books for answers... but he gave us the answer... He is the son of God...

Christianity made him God... By his own words he did not ever make that claim

edit on 11-1-2013 by Akragon because: (no reason given)

Oh you slithery Cheshire bastard


I'm not trying to change what Jesus said around, but what he said can be interpreted in several different ways depending on how you look at it. Just as anything can. He did not lie when he expressed "Those who abide in the Lord are my real brothers and mothers and sisters!" etc...
But he is not saying what you think he was.

He walked with them, those believers, he trialed with them, he bled with them (maybe not on the cross, but in life) they laughed and loved together... they love God, too... they are his brothers and sisters as he says, out of warmness and path.


But.... Knowing who Jesus is and having a relationship with the actual Word of God (Jesus) you would understand that Jesus is not our sibling. Sons of God and Son of God are not siblings. in other words.

I mean, the Bible states this clearly. "the only begotten of the Father" that means, Jesus has no actual brothers/sisters. because he is the only begotten from his actual parent. That should explain it right there for you, now try a bit harder to understand what he meant.




"Yup... the bible calls him God, and many others did as well, even to this day... yet he did not ever make that claim... In fact he said his father is greater then he.... And when he said "I and my Father are one"... that does not mean one and the same... It means he is the essence of his father... as any son is of the essence of his parents."


No, no no. I wouldn't ever say "my father and I are one" or "my mother and I are one" so that is an awful comparison. And you say yourself the Bible was changed, so how do you know Jesus didn't claim to be God?

However, to be precise. You've got to understand something very "mysterious" about the Trinity here. Jesus IS the Father in Flesh. So is he the Father? YES, (and I don't want to say it this way, but i have to to show you) but also NO. and at the same time there isn't a NO. Jesus is TRUTH, if he says directly "I am the Father" then, it's not that he would be lying, but he wouldn't be telling the exact "non-mysterious" Truth that he needs to tell, because... he is in fact the Father in the Flesh, not just simply "The Father". Though he is at the same time! He is indeed the Father. I know this all sounds very confusing, but that's because the mystery of the Trinity is difficult to explain. That's also why he didn't do that, he simply stopped at "Son of God".


Regarding "The Father is Greater than I" --- Have you ever done Math? Have you ever studied Greater than/Less thans?


The Father is Indeed, "GREATER" than Jesus. Jesus is a man, the Father is King in Heaven. The Father made Heaven, the Earth, and Jesus. Jesus is the incarnation of the Father.

"Those who have seen me have seen the Father" Hm... explain this one, mr. cheshy.

yet he also says "No one on earth has seen the Father" That's because you can't SEE the Father, you can only see Jesus who is CONNECTED to the Father as the incarnation of the Father, who is also the Father.

I understand it much better and much more simply than I'm explaining.......

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by Akragon

 

Jesus and God were one in the respect that they were one at heart . They were one in spirit . There was no division in their will . Then there is that God the Father whom Jesus prayed to while he was on earth . God put his seed into the Virgin and brought forth Immanuel which means God with us .

No argument there...

Names given by men mean nothing though... he was also called a drunkard... who mingled with whores and sinners by men... Does that make it true?

Jesus and the Father are one... yet two separate entities... The Father and the son....

They are not the same "person" if you choose to call God a person, which I do not

Wrong, they are the SAME personality. and yes, you can put it that way. They are the same "person" though the Father is not a person except for that he is Jesus.


Sir, Cheshy, please would you show me in the Bible where God and Jesus have a two way conversation at any point? Ahem.... yes, please do....



That means one saying something and the other responding. Thanks.




One in the sense of being a disciple or Body of Jesus means "one as unity"

one in the sense that Jesus referred to himself as one with the Father, means he IS the Father.

I do know Jesus, do you?? he has made it very clear to me that I am very right on this matter.

Without lying or to prove something for point's sake, has he done the same for you?
There is no way he could have. Because you are not aware of the Truth of who Jesus is.


You claim he is the Son, I suppose that is all he asked you to do. He is the Messiah, too, right? You believe that? But he also wants you to be born again and follow him, and if you did so then you'd realize that he is the same and then WE could talk as brothers, kind of as me and Simon Peter are doing.


He is, He is the Messiah.


You are very right Cheshy. It's kind of a double edged confusing but not confusing sword.

The Father wasn't a person, but he was! You're not following through with the whole "puzzle" if you will.


Oh, it's not a puzzle you say?


Then what do you call "If you have seen me then you have seen the Father" and then "call no man on Earth the Father" Both statements from Jesus. Is that, if you did not have more understanding, kind of a tricky contradiction of statements?


It's a path which is a Narrow path, and intended to be a narrow path, you are to bank off of each truth until you hit the real Truth, and Following the Truth (Jesus) you will narrowly be directed right into it.

Things are worded this way for a reason.



Cheshy, has Jesus proven to you and shown you repeatedly without a shadow of a doubt that your claims are true? This, and your relationship with the Word of God (Jesus) as "The God with you is closer than the God in the World"

Therefore, what, after deep prayer.... deep, earnest prayer... Does Jesus Speak to you?


Do let me know. Oh, and... having done that, you would be washed with the Spirit of Jesus, and you wouldn't come back snippy and uninformed and unwilling like you are.

In other words, I will know if you've done this. very clearly.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

I have the belief that God the Father in who's image we are made will not live in this world under the same conditions or environment that he created for us to live in . If God did exist here under the same constraints of time as we do he would also age . So God put his spirit into flesh creating his Son to live and age right along with us and to die in the flesh as we will and to bring us Grace and Mercy as well as prove that man can live sinless and please him . I equate Jesus living sinless as God saying do as I do and not just as I say .

No he wouldn't age. Time as we know it is part of the curse on the earth. People still age during his millenial reign because he will not have made the new heaven and earth yet. Remember we will have bodies as the angels.