Raised in "Christian" home, but not really "Christian"?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

I've been trying to restrain myself from replying to this post... but I just can't help myself... what I just read was utterly painful....

The entire Bible is the Word of God

That is SOOO not true...

IF that was the case God wouldn't contradict himself in his own book

It is the case, and He doesn't. You are confused.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
If Jesus is the Word, which we are told, then every word in the Bible is of Him

Originally posted by Akragon
Completely false....

The words that came directly from him are the words of God... who is the Father of Jesus.... NOT Jesus himself... that is Christian theology... which is based on the book in its entirety not on his words exclusively

No, completely true. I provided the verses. You can't simply decide to reject most of a book because you don't understand it, or reject what it tells you. Interesting that you would seem to deny the deity of Christ. Not surprising, though.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyesFalse prophets are not hard to spot. All you have to do is line up what they say with Scripture. We are even offered a simple test. 2 John 7-11 states:
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

Originally posted by Akragon
Interesting... did you know paul didn't preach the same lessons as Jesus did.... which by this quote makes him Anti-Christ... personally I wouldn't go as far as to call Paul Anti-Christ... but hey... if the shoe fits

Paul didn't preach anything different, or in disagreement. Such claims are simply another tactic used by those that want to discard most of the Bible, because it doesn't suit them. As for those shoes.....and their fit....well....

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
The simplest way is to determine who they say Jesus is. Those that do not accept Him as God, that He came in the flesh to die in our place, are false.

Originally posted by Akragon
Jesus did not claim to be God... He was made God in the flesh by his followers...

He did however claim to be the son of God... but never once did he say I am God... he knew better

Christian theology makes my head hurt sometimes... :shk:

Wrong again.

John 8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus 3:14: And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

We are also told, in Isaiah 9:6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

That is a clear description of Jesus. Note ALL of the names listed.

No wonder your head hurts, if you disregard logic, and toss out bits and pieces till things suit you.

reply to post by jhill76


Addressed all of this above. See the verses posted there for the evidence.

Every word in the Bible is given by God, even when those words were spoken by someone that followed Him. This isn't confusing, unless you want it to be.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by jhill76

 

Addressed all of this above. See the verses posted there for the evidence.

Every word in the Bible is given by God, even when those words were spoken by someone that followed Him. This isn't confusing, unless you want it to be.

I will let another respond to this, I will not give into the back and forth.

You are speaking for Father here, even the ones above cannot speak for Father unless directed to by him.

reply to post by jhill76


I am speaking and sharing His word, as directed to do. If you don't want to discuss further, that's fine. Certainly, all my posts are intended as discussion of the initial post, not some personal thing with anyone.

While I get your point, it does seem you are following a tiny bit blindly. You say that every single word in the bible was given by father, even those written by another man. Then if I take a document and change words in it, then say, "Father told me to", then you should accept it. Seems you could use a bit of extra "discernment" mixed in with your beliefs. You seem to understand prayer, so pray about it.

I have several times in life been asked to relax my mind, and then think/feel. The natives here in America compared it to a lake with ripples when the wind blows. This is our mind as we normally think a lot. When the wind stops and the water is calm and still, this is our mind as we rarely use it. Stop all thoughts and f e e l. Apply this before and after you pray. You will know then.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Originally posted by jhill76

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
reply to post by jhill76

 

Addressed all of this above. See the verses posted there for the evidence.

Every word in the Bible is given by God, even when those words were spoken by someone that followed Him. This isn't confusing, unless you want it to be.

I will let another respond to this, I will not give into the back and forth.

You are speaking for Father here, even the ones above cannot speak for Father unless directed to by him.

Technically, every word in the Bible is given by God... If not, the word would not be allowed there. However, which of those words are false? What I'm basically asking is: what if God intentionally let a false idea stay in the bible? Does that make God a liar or negate that every word in the bible is given by God? Absolutely not.

If anything, it postulates that God wants you to have a personal relationship with Him, not just entirely through a book with biased information that is limited to the scope of the ancient mind. When I see a false idea, in my opinion, that's like God saying, "Don't make the same mistake that person did," or asking, "What is really going on there?" But many people fear too much of being wrong in order to make that assessment. However, the bible does have truth and is closest to what is, like God and Jesus Christ, thus should not be disregarded as meaningless.

Got to take a Zen-like attitude towards the bible.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

It is the case, and He doesn't. You are confused.

Well I suppose if we're going to debate like we're in kindergarten....

Yes there are many many contradictions within the bible... if you haven't found any... you're simply not looking hard enough...

I'm not confused... you are.... so there!

*sticks out his tongue*

No, completely true. I provided the verses.

Oh I see... the bible is the word of God because the bible says so...

mein kampf stated within its pages that it was "the truth" as well... Does that make it true?

The verses you provided only prove that you can regurgitate scripture you've been taught... which is obvious from the meaning you've given to the verses you quoted...

Seriously... IF you're going to make a statement like "the entire bible is the word of God" at least use a piece of text that states that... perhaps like 2 timothy 3:16... the passages you quoted say nothing of the sort...

So technically you did prove one thing.... you don't understand scripture as well as you think you do...

You can't simply decide to reject most of a book because you don't understand it, or reject what it tells you.

I can reject whatever I wish.... free will remember?

Its not that I don't understand it.... quite the contrary... I've actually studied the bible for many years.... I wasn't taught my beliefs unlike yourself which is why the only thing I actually reject is the views of said book by your religion.

Interesting that you would seem to deny the deity of Christ. Not surprising, though.

That shows how well you read others replies... I said he IS the son of God... as he stated specifically...

I embrace his deity.... but reject the Christian idea that he was God in the flesh...

Paul didn't preach anything different, or in disagreement. Such claims are simply another tactic used by those that want to discard most of the Bible, because it doesn't suit them. As for those shoes.....and their fit....well....

Fortunately I have better things to do then debate the validity of pauls doctrine... and from what I've seen thus far, you likely wouldn't understand the flaws in his material either way... so there's no point.

Wrong again.

John 8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus 3:14: And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

*sigh*

I am is a reference to the essence of God... He existed before Abraham...OR the spirit within him existed before Abraham.... that verse does not say I AM GOD...

And the being that was with Moses wasn't God either... read closely... it says "an angel of the lord"... and it was likely a fallen one...

We are also told, in Isaiah 9:6: For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

That is a clear description of Jesus. Note ALL of the names listed

Jesus was called a lot of things... Names given by men mean nothing...

Look what else he was called...

19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

SO do you believe Jesus was just a gluttonous drunk that hung out with sinners and whores? He was basically called that... so it must be true because your bible says so.... right?

No wonder your head hurts, if you disregard logic, and toss out bits and pieces till things suit you.

Actually my head hurts because I choose to deal with the blind on a daily basis... so I guess its self inflicted.

Thank God for Tylenol... and beer

reply to post by Jameliel

As an adult, I have wondered at times how someone such as my dad could go so many years living a kind of lie the way he has. Now he is much better than when we were children, but somehow I still feel he is in error with many things.

We are not perfect. Still in these flawed bodies. The only way we can be sinless is if Jesus washes away our sins with his blood. In our own eyes however, we're not perfect. I call myself a christian but i admit i am far from perfect. I've done alot of things i regret, but the difference between a righteous person and a wicked one, are the righteous are those who pick themselves back up and carry on, while the wicked wallow in their sins and delight in being evil.

Thanks for your feelings on the subject, they are down to earth and make a lot of sense.

Originally posted by Jameliel
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

While I get your point, it does seem you are following a tiny bit blindly. You say that every single word in the bible was given by father, even those written by another man. Then if I take a document and change words in it, then say, "Father told me to", then you should accept it. Seems you could use a bit of extra "discernment" mixed in with your beliefs. You seem to understand prayer, so pray about it.

I have several times in life been asked to relax my mind, and then think/feel. The natives here in America compared it to a lake with ripples when the wind blows. This is our mind as we normally think a lot. When the wind stops and the water is calm and still, this is our mind as we rarely use it. Stop all thoughts and f e e l. Apply this before and after you pray. You will know then.

edit on 31-12-2012 by Jameliel because: mistypes

No, I said that every word was given by God. I didn't say "Father", and I believe in a Triune God. I also didn't say that one could change words, to make them say something else. Discernment? Funny you should mention that; happens to be my strongest spiritual gift.

We were never told that we had to "relax our minds" before praying. Prayer is simply conversation with God, after all, and He already knows what is on our minds and our hearts.

I don't follow blindly at all. I have looked, long and hard, at what I believe. I know some of what God has done in my life.

Now, if God is telling you something, well, that is possible. Sometimes He does that. Just be sure that what you hear matches up with His word. if it contradicts it, it isn't from God. I won't deny that He can communicate with us, though. He can, in a variety of ways. There is nothing in the Bible that says God would stop communicating with us at some given point in time.

Originally posted by Akragon
Yes there are many many contradictions within the bible... if you haven't found any... you're simply not looking hard enough...

I have looked, and have investigated quite a number of claims of such "contradictions". In every case, there was no actual contradiction, but simply a misunderstanding, or something taken out of context. There is a lot of material out there claiming such things, but all that I have checked out thus far is simply false.

Originally posted by Akragon
Seriously... IF you're going to make a statement like "the entire bible is the word of God" at least use a piece of text that states that... perhaps like 2 timothy 3:16... the passages you quoted say nothing of the sort...

So, you concede that what I said is correct. Plus, the first chapter of John does support my claim.

Originally posted by Akragon
I can reject whatever I wish.... free will remember?

Its not that I don't understand it.... quite the contrary... I've actually studied the bible for many years.... I wasn't taught my beliefs unlike yourself which is why the only thing I actually reject is the views of said book by your religion.

Well, sure you can, and you can face the consequences, too.

Unlike myself? Why do you assume that you know what I know, and how I came to have that knowledge? Rather arrogant, don't you think? I have studied the Bible for decades, and wasn't "taught" (meaning, in your eyes, brainwashed, or something to that effect?) what I believe. Do you even now what I believe? I am not sure you do.

Originally posted by Akragon
I embrace his deity.... but reject the Christian idea that he was God in the flesh...

Do you realize that your statement is contradictory?

de·i·ty (d-t, d-) n. pl. de·i·ties
1. A god or goddess.
2. a. The essential nature or condition of being a god; divinity.
b. Deity God.

source

Originally posted by Akragon
Fortunately I have better things to do then debate the validity of pauls doctrine... and from what I've seen thus far, you likely wouldn't understand the flaws in his material either way... so there's no point.

You mean, you know that I am aware of the facts, and so you refuse to debate, and be shown to be incorrect? Sure, no point.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Wrong again.

John 8:58: Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Exodus 3:14: And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.

Originally posted by Akragon
I am is a reference to the essence of God... He existed before Abraham...OR the spirit within him existed before Abraham.... that verse does not say I AM GOD...

No, "I AM" is what God told Moses to call Him. He wasn't talking about someone else there.

Originally posted by Akragon
And the being that was with Moses wasn't God either... read closely... it says "an angel of the lord"... and it was likely a fallen one...

Read. Learn. link

Originally posted by Jameliel
While I get your point, it does seem you are following a tiny bit blindly. You say that every single word in the bible was given by father, even those written by another man. Then if I take a document and change words in it, then say, "Father told me to", then you should accept it. Seems you could use a bit of extra "discernment" mixed in with your beliefs. You seem to understand prayer, so pray about it.

I have several times in life been asked to relax my mind, and then think/feel. The natives here in America compared it to a lake with ripples when the wind blows. This is our mind as we normally think a lot. When the wind stops and the water is calm and still, this is our mind as we rarely use it. Stop all thoughts and f e e l. Apply this before and after you pray. You will know then.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

edit on 31-12-2012 by Jameliel because: mistypes

The writers of the bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Every word that is in the bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The bible comprises a single story that explains the first 4000 years of creation. The Profits/Apostles who wrote the bible were not speaking from wisdom that was obtained by man. They had been taught the wisdom of God by the Holy Spirit. If you tell me a story and I write it down, who is the author? If you teach me and I share that knowledge with others, who is the author?

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by MaMaa

Originally posted by octotom
reply to post by MaMaa

 

but somehow the rules of being submissive/slave like only applied to women

Unfortunately the church you grew up in missed Ephesians 5:25. Yes, the wife is supposed to submit to the headship of the husband (most of the time), but the husband isn't a dictator who commands everything and everyone bows down to. Rather the husband is supposed to "love his wife like Christ loved the church". The husband is supposed to serve his wife and love her unconditionally.

We moved around a lot, it was a constant theme among any church we went to. Now I understand and was even taught that the husband is and I quote " supposed" to serve his wife and love her unconditionally. However my point was that there is no one to enforce such a behavior in men. Where as the men were there to enforce the behavior in women. Works out well for men, not so well for women.

That's not exactly true. If a married man is not happy with his wife than he is not happy with his life.

If the husband chooses to serve the wife than the wife likely will not have a problem submitting to his decisions. But if the man does not serve the wife but expects submission he will not receive what he does not deserve. This will cause strife between the two and tension in the marriage. If either the husband or wife fails to do their role the marriage suffers. No one really wins because no one is happy.

If one chooses to believe, the bible does say that a spouse never knows when by their actions they may save their spouse. I would say it's possible to take on Christ like attributes that are noticeable to your spouse. If I serve my wife the way Christ serves the church than eventually my love will win her over and she will want to submit, because it is my love that she submits too.

II would say that if a man is not happy with his life then he isn't happy with anyone or anything and that is a personal thing that can only be achieved for ones self not because of anything someone else does or does not do.

The very idea that if a husband serves his wife then she would have no problem submitting to his decisions is offensive nonsense. My husband treats me like a queen, but I have never once felt the need to submit to him or his decisions as he is not 'in charge'. A wife and husband should be in charge of things together in my opinion.

Regardless of that my point is not how well it works or how happy anyone is. The point is that there is no one to enforce a man serve his wife if he is accountable to an invisible god. Where as with a woman there is a physical male there to ensure submission.

Originally posted by Rise27

Originally posted by MaMaa
We moved around a lot, it was a constant theme among any church we went to. Now I understand and was even taught that the husband is and I quote " supposed" to serve his wife and love her unconditionally. However my point was that there is no one to enforce such a behavior in men. Where as the men were there to enforce the behavior in women. Works out well for men, not so well for women.

We are accountable to God to have such behavior. We need to have a desire to love our wife the way Christ loves the church.
That means we are willing to sacrifice our life for them. Unconditional love. Their care and joy is our primary concern.
In turn, a wife shouldn't have issue submitting to such a husband because she knows he cares about her more than he cares about himself.
This is a picture of our relationship with Christ. He asks us to submit to his authority, but we can trust that if we do this that He has our best interest at heart and will take care of us.


Any man can change to love his wife in such a way - But such a change only comes by having an active abiding relationship with Christ through the Holy Spirit. From that place of submission to the will of the Spirit we see the fruit of a changed character to become more Christ like.
There is much beauty that results from a relationship where both people are in active relationship with Christ and submit to each other in selfless love the way it was suppose to be.

Many self-professed christians, unfortunately, don't have this relationship with Christ, and as a result reoccuring sin issues in their life go unresolved, not dealt with.

It is very troubling to see so many turned from all what God wants to give us through relationship with Christ because some people were bad witnesses to the faith. I think exposure to true christians, realizing what it can do for you and your family, would offset the damage done by those who may never have actually known Christ.

edit on 30-12-2012 by Rise27 because: (no reason given)

And yet women DO have issues with submitting because it isn't right. Just because my husband loves me and treats me well does not in any way mean that I would be ok with submitting. I have a great marriage, married for almost 18 years and together for 21 years! He was my first and only boyfriend whom I then married after high school. Never once no matter how he treated me was I ever inclined to submit to him, it wasn't even a thought in my brain. We are a partnership and there is no submitting necessary.

I have already healed the damage done by religion and learned my lesson the hard way and have moved on with my life.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

Originally posted by Jameliel
While I get your point, it does seem you are following a tiny bit blindly. You say that every single word in the bible was given by father, even those written by another man. Then if I take a document and change words in it, then say, "Father told me to", then you should accept it. Seems you could use a bit of extra "discernment" mixed in with your beliefs. You seem to understand prayer, so pray about it.

I have several times in life been asked to relax my mind, and then think/feel. The natives here in America compared it to a lake with ripples when the wind blows. This is our mind as we normally think a lot. When the wind stops and the water is calm and still, this is our mind as we rarely use it. Stop all thoughts and f e e l. Apply this before and after you pray. You will know then.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

edit on 31-12-2012 by Jameliel because: mistypes

The writers of the bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit. Every word that is in the bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The bible comprises a single story that explains the first 4000 years of creation. The Profits/Apostles who wrote the bible were not speaking from wisdom that was obtained by man. They had been taught the wisdom of God by the Holy Spirit. If you tell me a story and I write it down, who is the author? If you teach me and I share that knowledge with others, who is the author?

To whom is this even addressed? I certainly never claimed that the Bible was anything but inspired by God. What that has to do with your claims, now, is another matter.