NRA Pipes Up Again

Originally posted by jimmyx
so...the kids that go to elite schools of very wealthy people where they actually have armed guards, those kids live in "sustained enviorment of fear"?.....plus i haven't heard of any "shooter " showing up at those schools, have you?

Actually, I'd say those kids live in an atmosphere of entitlement beyond, and detachment from, society at large. Whether or not they can appreciate the quip "Eat the Rich" is unknown. The question remains, is an arms race between the good guys and the bad guys (or rich folk and poor folk) the answer?

Funny, in a forum that tends to trumpet treating the cause over the symptom in a medical context, you sure hear crickets when it comes to a societal ills.

The method of an armed citizen stopping mass killers is a proven one, Clackamus mall shooter committed suicide when confronted, a mass theater shooting stopped by off duty deputy with one shot fired taking out perpetrator. Nice shot btw.

The way its done wether by armed gaurds, CCL holding teachers and administrators or paid deputies is each communities business. No one anywhere can expect police help much sooner than 5-20 minutes - it is that time that armed citizenry must have the unrestricted right to defend themselves and others.

Detractors can "what if" this method all they want - I have one what if in reponse, "what if the principal or others had a CCL carried weapon when Adam showed up?

My answer is there would have been only one death that day either by his own hand or with much needed help.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


No crickets here, been calling loudly for mental heath care reform and a "no buy list" based on that ever since the school shooting.

Root cause there ya know.

Until that is accomplished there is need for self defence against these monsters walking our streets.

Originally posted by Phoenix
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

No crickets here, been calling loudly for mental heath care reform and a "no buy list" based on that ever since the school shooting.
Root cause there ya know.
Until that is accomplished there is need for self defence against these monsters walking our streets.

Good for you for adding that dimension to the discussion.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

NRA Pipes Up Again

w ww.huffingtonpost.com

Wayne LaPierre, the head of the National Rifle Association, made a second effort at selling his views on the Newtown school shooting massacre to the public in a contentious appearance on "Meet the Press" on Sunday morning.

"If it's crazy to call for armed officers in our schools to protect our children, then call me crazy," LaPierre said defiantly. "I think the American people think it's crazy not to do it. It's the one thing that would keep people safe."

(visit the link for the full news article)

You realise that Bill Clinton proposed the exact same thing in the 1990's, right?

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
What a great environment for a school, armed officers everywhere, that can't be good for kids to be brought up in

The NRA seemed to have missed the point overall, perceptions may differ but armed cops do not decrease the chances of another attack, it merely puts more people in the firing line imo.

When my dad was growing up, kids brought their own guns to school all of the time. They would hunt on the way home or were part of the rifle team and so forth. There was much less violence in school back then and the kids turned out okay, so I don't think the mere presence of an inanimate object will warp their minds that much.

reply to post by NavyDoc


The last three years of HS I went to a small school in East Texas.
It was not at all uncommon for these country boys to come to school with their rifles/shotguns in the back window of their pickups.
The only problem I ever saw their was when a kid pulled a knife on my friend and I hit him in the face with a history book

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I don't think it's the responsibility of the gun lobby to diagnose and treat all of these problems. Where has the medical community been throughout all of this? I think it's obvious that the primary issue wrong with these people is psychological, therefore medical. Last time I checked the NRA is not staffed by physicians. Seems more like a problem for the AMA, not the NRA.

Originally posted by NavyDoc
You realise that Bill Clinton proposed the exact same thing in the 1990's, right?

Didn't Slick Willie also change the rules of the game so that your industries could merrily set up overseas supported by slave-labour wages and thereby ruin the US (and Canada, I might add) as a manufacturing giant? Seems to me that his fans seem to forget this. This is not a political discussion to me, it is cultural, and I can't see the sense in doubling-down on what isn't working. However...not up top me to solve, merely observing from a friendly perspective.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I don't think it's the responsibility of the gun lobby to diagnose and treat all of these problems. Where has the medical community been throughout all of this? I think it's obvious that the primary issue wrong with these people is psychological, therefore medical. Last time I checked the NRA is not staffed by physicians. Seems more like a problem for the AMA, not the NRA.

Seems to be a collective problem, requiring a collective response. If all of the parties waste their energies in finger-pointing and denial...well, they're just putting in time until the next round of tragedy.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
You'd better provide me with a couple of links, because so far I have not found anything that I figure you might endorse...starting with Mass Murder in Newtown: Why and Where Next?

Oh good grief.
Just research over a period of say 15 years for the US.
Please, tell me where the mass shootings happen.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck Ahhh...sorry, America did not invent, nor does it control, freedom of speech. But thanks for your interest, just the same.

Oh, so now something representative from OUR Constitution suites your taste does it??
No, not invented here, but first to guarantee that as a right. Along side with the right to bear arms.
So cute to see you pick and choose what suites you today.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Didn't that shooting happen????
You know??? Columbine or something to the sort.

SO much for that law banning high cap mags and all. Sure stopped alot.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

You realise that Bill Clinton proposed the exact same thing in the 1990's, right? Didn't Slick Willie also change the rules of the game so that your industries could merrily set up overseas supported by slave-labour wages and thereby ruin the US (and Canada, I might add) as a manufacturing giant? Seems to me that his fans seem to forget this.

And that means what under the topic of discussion.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
This is not a political discussion to me, it is cultural, and I can't see the sense in doubling-down on what isn't working.

Oh, you mean MORE laws restricting OUR 2nd Amendment right.
Yes, I agree, more laws aren't working. Neither are more restrictions on a right we are guaranteed.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
However...not up top me to solve, merely observing from a friendly perspective.

I think you mean "sticking your nose in and laying out your opinion".

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck


So here's my question...you stock your elementary schools with armed guards...sure to create an environment of sustained fear for the children, anyway (but that's another thread)...and a shooter shows up. Is he going to check in with the office and get a pass? No. He is going to take out the guard, then go about his business. Then what?

Armed guards merely address the symptom. How about addressing the causes?

I'm not seeing much of that debate from the gun lobby.



w ww.huffingtonpost.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Well go ahead then and tell us what you think are the causes.

As far as a guard in schools.....he or she might get taken out and maybe not. At most schools the door are locked save for the front door so that limits entry.....and then if the nut is heading for the door dressed in combat gear and packing a large weapon, a back pack (they could limit entry to anyone with a bag ect untill they are checked out and buzzed in) that might be a clue to the SG.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I don't think it's the responsibility of the gun lobby to diagnose and treat all of these problems. Where has the medical community been throughout all of this? I think it's obvious that the primary issue wrong with these people is psychological, therefore medical. Last time I checked the NRA is not staffed by physicians. Seems more like a problem for the AMA, not the NRA.

edit on 26-12-2012 by Cosmic911 because: (no reason given)

That is very right. At this point all the NRA must do is defend the 2nd. They are not required to get into all this other stuff if they dont want to. Even though they know more about it than Cuomo does to be sure.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


See, here is a perfect example of why people think it's a crazy idea. It's hyperbole. Lot's of schools have armed security and it's nothing like what you have come up with in your imagination. Liberals want you draw this image of armed guards everywhere like a prison. What is really meant is one or two security persons that are just on campus. They probably sit and watch t.v. most the day, or drive around on a golf cart.

Lots of schools have them already and the kids don't even notice, the guards are just background to their dramatic little lives. Columbine had a guard and he engaged fire with one of the shooters. Unfortunately he was outnumbered, but the few instances he brought the fire of the shooter to focus on himself, he may have saved lives.

No one is advocating what liberals are turning this idea into, they are just advocating someone on site trained to defend against attackers. The presidents daughters school has multiple armed guards. Most private school have them. I would say most rich people send their kids to schools with armed guards.

STOP THE EXAGGERATIONS!

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
However...not up top me to solve, merely observing from a friendly perspective.

I think you mean "sticking your nose in and laying out your opinion".

Well, I thank y'all for the invitation to play whack-a-mole with the gun freaks, but I do have a life. I will suggest the following, though...

No...scratch that. Lemme know how it's all working out for you.

One thing: If you are really affronted by my venturing an opinion on a subject...then don't read my posts. It's not like I'm running a stealth avatar, eh?

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


The cause is crazy people acting crazy.

Why not just pass a law prohibiting people from being crazy? Makes as much sense as passing laws prohibiting sane people from owning weapons to protect themselves.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by NavyDoc
You realise that Bill Clinton proposed the exact same thing in the 1990's, right?

Didn't Slick Willie also change the rules of the game so that your industries could merrily set up overseas supported by slave-labour wages and thereby ruin the US (and Canada, I might add) as a manufacturing giant? Seems to me that his fans seem to forget this. This is not a political discussion to me, it is cultural, and I can't see the sense in doubling-down on what isn't working. However...not up top me to solve, merely observing from a friendly perspective.

Originally posted by Cosmic911
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I don't think it's the responsibility of the gun lobby to diagnose and treat all of these problems. Where has the medical community been throughout all of this? I think it's obvious that the primary issue wrong with these people is psychological, therefore medical. Last time I checked the NRA is not staffed by physicians. Seems more like a problem for the AMA, not the NRA.

Seems to be a collective problem, requiring a collective response. If all of the parties waste their energies in finger-pointing and denial...well, they're just putting in time until the next round of tragedy.

edit on 26-12-2012 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)

I agree that doubling down on what does not work makes no sense. Gun control laws have not made any society safer and the US has more gun control now than it did in the past and the issue has gotten worse, not better over time. If we want to change the paradigm, even more laws are not it.

Of course it is cultural: my dad took his gun to school. When he was 15, he bought a semi-auto carbine from the local hardware store. No school shootings in the 1930's and 1940's even there was almost no gun control. Outside of the NFA, there was zero federal gun control. Yet, it was largely a safer and more peaceful time and blood did not flow in the streets. Now, with myriad of gun control laws and kids getting expelled if they even draw a picture of a gun, violence abounds.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

I think you mean "sticking your nose in and laying out your opinion".

Well, I thank y'all for the invitation to play whack-a-mole with the gun freaks, but I do have a life. I will suggest the following, though...

And your ticket count for your efforts are low, maybe one or two for playing the game.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
No...scratch that. Lemme know how it's all working out for you.

Just fine thank you.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
One thing: If you are really affronted by my venturing an opinion on a subject...then don't read my posts. It's not like I'm running a stealth avatar, eh?

Or just take care of your own backyard before you go knocking on your neighbors door.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
One thing: If you are really affronted by my venturing an opinion on a subject...then don't read my posts. It's not like I'm running a stealth avatar, eh?

Or just take care of your own backyard before you go knocking on your neighbors door.

To quote one of our own...Just watch me.