NRA Pipes Up Again, page 3

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reply posted on 23-12-2012 @ 07:06 PM by links234

Originally posted by macman

People [will] commit violence regardless.

So with that in mind, we should just allow firearms to be easily available to people and accessible to their associates? Most crimes committed by people are done by using someone else's gun. It's a rare case where the crime is committed by the person owning the gun.

Most homicides in the US are committed with a gun. Are you honestly telling me that the homicide rate will stay the same if we were to eliminate guns because of knives and bombs?

Holding the gun-owners responsible for their guns and the crimes they commit is a form of gun control and should be easily agreed upon.

reply posted on 23-12-2012 @ 07:38 PM by MJZoo

reply to post by links234

So if I come steal your car tonight and run over some kids are you going to comply when the cops arrest you as an accomplice to murder?

reply posted on 23-12-2012 @ 08:11 PM by links234

reply to post by MJZoo

If I've locked my doors and took the keys out I've done everything within reason to prevent someone from using my vehicle without my permission. It's unlikely that someone will be killed from my car being taken though, that's not what cars are used for.

If you leave your gun in your closet with the ammo next to it then you've done nothing to prevent someone from taking it, loading it and killing you or some one else with it. That's what guns are used for.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 01:40 AM by Kovenov

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

How about addressing the causes?

I think that is the most important question worth asking.

Here are some videos and links (I learned about these videos and links from washingtonblog.com) that may fundamentally answer the question of cause more convincingly than discussions about gun control & posting armed guards at schools.

www.washingtonsblog.com...

YouTube Link

ssristories.com...
www.saybrook.edu...
news.nationalpost.com...
www.lawyersandsettlements.com...
www.breggin.com...

Conjecturing about what causes or motivates these sorts of quasi-random acts of violence is worth looking at. If nothing else I have yet to learn that a weapon caused or motivated the sort of violence that can be read about or viewed in the linked material (on the other hand, who is to say that in a person in some kind of psychotropic state does not hear inanimate objects speak?). I know that must come across as a strange thing to say, but at its root an inanimate object is probably not what compels a person to act with violence. I'll concede that certain weapons allow for a greater degree of immediate destruction, but in and of itself the weapon does not necessarily curb a person's motivation to act witih violence.

Despite that some say or believe psychotropic drug usage is either not germane or less germane to the issue of violence and gun control ... well I think some of these people are more interested in gun control than they are about curbing violence. But I'll be cautious with my generalizations about what groups of people may or may not believe and emphasize some.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 11:52 AM by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

Please, and I truly mean this, please pretty please with sugar on top, research what places these mass shootings are happening at.

Then kindly report back your findings, before yet another NON US Citizen goes on and on about how we as a nation need to conduct our OWN business.

Not sure what you mean by the research comment. Perhaps as a foreigner I don't have a proper handle on the language. Are you inferring that I do not have the right to comment on an American issue?

First off, I don't believe that you answered the question that I posed in my original post.

Secondly, your liberal gun laws tend to contribute to the proliferation of illegal firearms in Canada.

Finally...as I have stated on numerous occasions (ad nauseum I might add), this is an international forum. May I quote your Harry S. Truman in stating "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"?

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:03 PM by Blackmarketeer

reply to post by neo96

Yes Yes!

Make an issue out of armed guards and the kids go home and play COD and Halo or go watch some shoot em up movies.

For crying out loud I know some people love to vilify gun owners, and the NRA, but damn this is getting asinine.

So VIDEO GAMES can be held responsible for gun violence (as the NRA has been pushing recently) - but not the GAMERS? Can we say "video games don't kill people, gamers (i.e. people) kill people."

How is this different than "gins don't kill people, people kill people"?

You CAN'T blame video games while absolving guns of gun violence. These tragedies are caused by mentally unstable people who have easy access to guns.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:08 PM by michael1983l

Just playing Devils Advocate here, but what is to happen once this armed guard is enlisted at the school, what if he goes nuts? I mean he is already at the school and is already armed, standing around all day waiting for nothing to happen isn't exactly good for your mental state anyway. I'd say the armed guard is as likely to go nuts as is anybody.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:14 PM by neo96

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

So VIDEO GAMES can be held responsible for gun violence (as the NRA has been pushing recently) - but not the GAMERS? Can we say "video games don't kill people, gamers (i.e. people) kill people.

WHhy not that is the anti gun argument blaming things instead of people.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:30 PM by Answer

Originally posted by michael1983l
Just playing Devils Advocate here, but what is to happen once this armed guard is enlisted at the school, what if he goes nuts? I mean he is already at the school and is already armed, standing around all day waiting for nothing to happen isn't exactly good for your mental state anyway. I'd say the armed guard is as likely to go nuts as is anybody.

Right, because bank guards, mall security, campus police at universities, police officers, random people with concealed carry permits, and federal agents are going nuts every day and shooting people. Simply having a gun on your hip makes you edgy and ready to commit murder.

I've heard the "what happens when the armed guard goes nuts" argument several times now from people who think banning guns is the answer and it makes absolutely no sense. In fact, I think it speaks more for the mental state of the person making the claim than it does for any logical hypothesis. Just because you're always on the verge of snapping does not mean that every one is. Seek professional help.

The problem is, gun banners don't want to hear any other solution offered. They will immediately discredit an alternative answer because it's not what THEY want... and completely disregard logic and facts in the process.

I've heard the statement several times that "if I had a gun, I know I'd snap one day and shoot someone." As a gun owner, I find that extremely troubling and I'm grateful that a person with that level of mental instability has made the responsible choice to NOT own a firearm. Just because you can't handle stress without resorting to violence does not mean that I have the same problem.

edit on 12/24/2012 by Answer because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:39 PM by solidguy

Everyone forgets that the NRA is the largest gun safety organization in the world.

Responsible gun owners are being targeted unfairly.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:43 PM by Answer

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by MJZoo

If I've locked my doors and took the keys out I've done everything within reason to prevent someone from using my vehicle without my permission. It's unlikely that someone will be killed from my car being taken though, that's not what cars are used for.

If you leave your gun in your closet with the ammo next to it then you've done nothing to prevent someone from taking it, loading it and killing you or some one else with it. That's what guns are used for.

Your glaring contradiction is laughable.

By your logic, simply locking your car is not enough to prevent the theft of your vehicle. You should park it inside, attach a locking boot to the wheel, empty the fuel tank, and lock the battery in another secure location. This is all to make sure it is difficult for someone to steal. When you're ready to use your car, it's going to be a massive hassle to get it ready to drive but hey... sacrifices have to be made, right?

If I keep ANY item inside my home, behind locked doors, I have taken reasonable precautions to prevent someone from stealing said item. Should parents keep firearms locked in a secure area away from children? Yes. Should I have to completely disable my firearm and make it completely useless for home defense simply to avoid having it stolen by a home invader (which is, ironically, the exact scenario where it should be ready for home defense)? No. Hell no.

To your last little quip... I've been around literally tens of thousands of guns in my lifetime and none of them have ever killed someone. If guns are only used to kill people, computers are only used for child pornography.

edit on 12/24/2012 by Answer because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:55 PM by macman

reply to post by Zcustosmorum

Mother Jones as your source???
Might as well provide Fox on steroids for the opposite side.

Go find a NON partisan source, oh.....maybe a NON Communist/Socialist/Marxist source. Then I will consider even reading something.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 12:58 PM by GuidedKill

We have had armed officers in schools here in FL for years. Here is a school board meeting where a gunman attempted to take over the meeting and was shot by an armed school resource officer. Only fatality was the gunman!!!

YouTube Link

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 01:01 PM by macman

Originally posted by links234

So with that in mind, we should just allow firearms to be easily available to people and accessible to their associates? Most crimes committed by people are done by using someone else's gun. It's a rare case where the crime is committed by the person owning the gun.

Easy and accessible???
The current laws violate the 2nd Amendment.
There are restrictions in place already. Those, even today, are an infringement. A clear violation of the 2nd Amendment.
Most crime where a firearm is used is purchased/gotten illegally. SO, in your world, it is acceptable to now punish those Millions of Lawful People by either banning firearms or infringing on their rights even more.
I love reading when someone or groups of people are so blindly ignorant to the fact that their fear of guns is about as childish and stupid as being scared of monsters under the bed.

Originally posted by links234
Most homicides in the US are committed with a gun. Are you honestly telling me that the homicide rate will stay the same if we were to eliminate guns because of knives and bombs?

If people don't have guns, other means will be sought.
Kind of like criminals now turning to the digital age for crime.
They adapt.

Originally posted by links234
Holding the gun-owners responsible for their guns and the crimes they commit is a form of gun control and should be easily agreed upon.

You aren't.
If you were, you would be here stating what a moronic coward loser that 20 year old piece of trash is.
Not stating guns are bad and lawful gun owners need to be put to the fire.

edit on 24-12-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 01:18 PM by tjack

Originally posted by links234
reply to post by neo96

It's not about what kills more people or how though, is it? It's about murder. The intent to take another's life. Guns in America make murder easier to accomplish. There are secondary and tertiary reasons for murder, sure. However, guns make murder easy.

You can't blame video games or movies because I don't see anywhere else in the world with the murder rate that we have. We'd be better off without guns in America.

They also make defending oneself against a murderer easier.

Here's a thought exercise, for those of you still willing and capable of doing that kind of thing, go ahead and remove guns from America or wherever. Murderers still exist, and now they have to "do their thing" with something other than a gun.

As do you, as the one defending their life or the life of their loved ones.

So.....

What are you going to pick?

Ice axe? Stick with a nail in it? I wonder what the criminal with the hots for your daughter will pick as his new weapon of choice. Hopefully he turned in his gun, too.

Better yet, just play the odds and know that it *probably* will never come down to that for "you"?

I'll take the world's only true "equalizer" for 100, Bob.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 01:26 PM by macman

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Not sure what you mean by the research comment. Perhaps as a foreigner I don't have a proper handle on the language. Are you inferring that I do not have the right to comment on an American issue?

My patience is very thin with the whole anti gun crowd.
My statement is very clear.
Research where these shootings are happening and the criminal mindset of the people doing these things.
Not that difficult to understand.
If what I stated is difficult to comprehend, maybe you should not be commenting after all on US issues.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

First off, I don't believe that you answered the question that I posed in my original post.

I answered with a question for you to research things, as research will answer your questions.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Secondly, your liberal gun laws tend to contribute to the proliferation of illegal firearms in Canada.

Sounds like you have a Canada issue.
I would suggest several things on dealing with that, but it is non of MY business. It is YOUR country. YOU deal with it.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Finally...as I have stated on numerous occasions (ad nauseum I might add), this is an international forum. May I quote your Harry S. Truman in stating "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"?

That is very quaint.
I would suggest that for you in return.
Maybe take care of Canada first, before you go bitching about your neighbors INTERNAL issues.

edit on 24-12-2012 by macman because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 01:26 PM by detachedindividual

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

NRA Pipes Up Again

w ww.huffingtonpost.com

Wayne LaPierre, the head of the National Rifle Association, made a second effort at selling his views on the Newtown school shooting massacre to the public in a contentious appearance on "Meet the Press" on Sunday morning.

"If it's crazy to call for armed officers in our schools to protect our children, then call me crazy," LaPierre said defiantly. "I think the American people think it's crazy not to do it. It's the one thing that would keep people safe."
(visit the link for the full news article)

You know what I would love to see? I would love to see the US Gov say to the NRA, if you are so certain about this, really, sign this statement taking full responsibility for all future gun related atrocities in schools across the USA!

If they arm people in schools, this will not stop. There will be more, more guns = more opportunity for gun incidents, this is a mathematical certainty.

But then again, the NRA is run by religiously crazy right wing retards who wouldn't know truth, science and fact if it spanked them on the ass.

Lets see how fast this nut bag retracts his certainty when it's his ass on the line, rather than his future profits.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 01:30 PM by macman

reply to post by detachedindividual

Oh,, your BS in a wheelbarrow again?

I believe that the NRA has proposed more that what the Govt you hold in such high regards.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 01:43 PM by tjack

random thought:

I'm sure that nearly 100% of career criminals agree with anti-gun proponents.....disarming lawful gun owners is definitely a step in the right direction.

reply posted on 24-12-2012 @ 02:05 PM by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Finally...as I have stated on numerous occasions (ad nauseum I might add), this is an international forum. May I quote your Harry S. Truman in stating "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"?

That is very quaint.
I would suggest that for you in return.
Maybe take care of Canada first, before you go bitching about your neighbors INTERNAL issues.

Once again, this IS an international forum. In fact, one of the founding fathers...if I may be so bold...is a Brit. If you can't take an international response to an issue, I would suggest that you utilise a forum in which you can all sit around in a circle, nod, bob, and say 'ditto'. Otherwise...as my cop friend likes to say..."Suck it up, Buttercup!"