Obama massacre speech: Wiping away tears...and the second amendment

Originally posted by electricalpup
reply to post by anton74
[more
I have no problem with the guns, I was raised around them, and until just recently I had a CCW and I do have to say, today the mentality has shifted.

I grew up in a area where practically everyone carried or had a rifle in back window of truck. Rarely was the gun pulled in a heated argument or just because to place fear in someone.

Today, we have barbaric and militaristic personalities worn proudly across their cold hearts.

I think we are saying the same thing. What has happened to society? I don't see this as a problem with guns, I see a bigger problem in our country. Why was this unheard of until a few decades ago? This problem didn't just pop up, it was created(not in a conspiracy way) by both sides(left and right).

reply to post by anton74


People are getting more and more desensitized. The adults are that way and the kids are too.

Yesterday, my 12 year-old son came home from school and told me that a boy in his PE class tried to hang himself with his gym shirt in the locker room. Two other students found him and pulled him down. My son was very disturbed by the incident, but even more disturbed that some of the students found this child's suicide attempt to be funny. That disturbs the heck out of me too!

Not anywhere near in the same league, but I recall being in grade school and a student pulled a chair out from behind another student and the girl fell. A lot of kids laughed and our teacher sternly admonished the laughter and described the types of injuries that such a stunt could cause. People seemed to grasp consequences and accountability better back then. That teacher wasn't afraid to meet inappropriate behavior head on. Now days, so many have no clue what inappropriate behavior is, let alone the good sense not to engage in it.

reply to post by Komaratzi11


Society has gotten pretty sad. This guy did this for attention, it wasn't because he had an issue with these kids. He felt hurt and wanted everyone to know how he feels. He knew that this would be heard around the world and that every media source would have it on the front page. This is what everyone will spend the next few weeks talking about and that is what he wanted.

reply to post by rival


What's going on right here in our country right now.

Originally posted by kingsquirel
So first you must be an American to appreciate our rights, and if not for our rights, your country would be still holding the "Magna Carta," and we all know how many individuals died in the late 1600's to the twenty first centuries holding on to a piece of paper which was worthless, now do we not?

All I can tell you is that I have likely seen more of the US than you have, so my perspective is pretty clear. And to those who are relating the difference in our population numbers as the defining factor in gun crime...well, look at it in a proportional sense, eh?

reply to post by rival


Oh yeah. I already heard Obama talk about an assault weapon ban today.
It's so stupid, and people fall for it hook line and sinker, every time.

They will make guns illegal, just like they did heroin, and coc aine. They make things illegal and certain people get rich.

When will they realize that it's a problem with mental illness, AND that these attackers always strike places where they know it's least likely they will run into someone with a gun. Solve that problem, put defenses in place in places like that (malls, theatres, schools, etc.).

Most of these cases (this one and the Oregon mall) are cases of guns being stolen and used. In this case he took his mothers guns and killed people with them. I am sure it wasn't on loan, so yes, it was stolen.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


here you go johnny my boy, better pull your shoes off.
here are some stats, and a article for ya.
considering that the population of canada 34.9 million 2012 estimate, and the U.S. 311.6 million 2011 estimate. which is, just to keep it simple, about nine times higher than canada. of course our numbers will be higher. but have a look at these.

in this link Crime stats: Canada vs United States we have sixteen categories, nine of which canada is ranked higher than the U.S. and yes the gun rate is higher for the U.S., but remember the population is higher. canada is rated 9th and U.S. is rated 1st. isn't that interesting, i wonder if canada had nine times more people what the rate would be. and the total victims of crime, just to be fair i think it's all crime, canada is rated seventh and the U.S. is fifteenth. which canada is about eight times higher. thats interesting too.


in this wiki List of countries by intentional homicide rate

it shows that canada rate per 100,000 is 1.6, and the U.S. per 100,000 is 4.2. so the U.S. rate is 2.875 higher than canada if my math is right, remember i'm trying to keep it simple.
also in this link Homicide offences, number and rate, by province and territory which shows a rise for canada as a whole to 1.7,if you look by province and territory, i know you canadians are kinda funny about that, you see some that are just as high or higher than the U.S.
also this link from mar 2011,U.S. vs Canada: Homicide Edition puts the rates much closer, still only about three times higher. again to be fair it does use data from 2006, and it's looks at it in a way some might call racist. you decide for yourself.

and last but not least. dated dec 5 2012, the sub headline says that canadian killers are favoring the blade.
Homicide rates in Canada rise 7% i guess y'all are gonna have to outlaw knifes now, seeing how you did such a good job with guns. excuse me, i should of said register knifes.

i think it plain to see that if all things were equal, you (expletives deleted) canucks are just as murderous as any one else. and who gives a (expletive deleted) what kinda light a bunch of arrogant moose (expletive deleted) canadians see U.S. gun owners in. worry about yourselves.

reply to post by rival


to me that wasnt wiping tears.it was body actions to lies being told.simple,he was reading off a peace of paper?amazing! and to all talking about the event,,,perhaps,just perhaps,it could be a hollywood film going viral.to what cause? whats in it for santa sam?

On 9/12, the day after 9/11, I was posting warnings to people about allowing their emotions to run
roughshod over their logical thinking process. My opinion at the time was VERY unpopular and I
was vilified for my insensitivity and for politicizing a tragedy like that so soon after the fact.

It was only one month later that the fourth amendment was all but cancelled by the Patriot Act
by politicians--empowered by the emotional state of the nation--who used that tragedy to strip
this country's citizens of their right to privacy...

But I stand by what I said then, and I stand by it now...:Beware of making important decisions while
emotions are high.

The founding fathers composed the Bill of Rights with grave attention paid to the history of human
governance. They not only looked to the past, but they looked to the future and they sought to
ensure that future US citizens would not become complacent and naive to the teachings of history.
That is why the second amendment is worded so strongly, "...the right to keep and bear arms
shall not be infringed." Because they foresaw a time when the citizens of this country may willingly
cede their ability to protect themselves to the government alone. And they knew how dangerous
that could be.

The founding fathers were correct in their assessment of human nature. Millions of innocent
people have died as a result of governments stripping their citizens of their ability to protect
themselves and then inflicting great harm upon them....It is still happening today.

The greatest threat is not a lone gunman...it is a nation of people naive to history, willing to
relinquish their ability to protect themselves, for the sake of their emotional well-being.

To you that feel this way, I say you should count yourself lucky for the luxury of having the opportunity
to have that opinion....the Bill of Rights is why you this luxury

reply to post by electricalpup


We only have our rights because our forefathers cared enough to defend them and enshrined them in a Constitution that is designed to limit the power of government over the people.
You know what makes me want to puke? People who think because 20 kids were slaughtered we should just throw away everything that our forefathers fought and died for as if it would even solve the problem (which it would not).
Want to prevent more school shootings? I do too, how about we let staff carry firearms? We could have cops in every school but that would be too expensive not to mention repressive from a psychological standpoint.

More guns is actually the solution to preventing more crimes like this from happening.
Sorry but even if we all wanted to you can't put the genie back in the bottle, there's too many guns and if made illegal would still be available on the black market.

Being pro-gun is not "spewing hate" for another person, where did you get that idea from?

reply to post by Asktheanimals


It is still a shocking thing, I cannot wrap my brain around the whole thing still.

Here is the problem and why some are asking if this was some kind of conspiracy...and I am wondering myself.

The shock and awe value was immense...horrible. It leaves so many just dripping with hate and revenge...running for their torches and pitchforks..."Go and get the guns! They caused this"...

The problem for those of us that know how humans behave and know that prohibition has never worked on anything...we look like monsters and freaks for speaking up to defend the Constitution in such a horrible time. "How can you defend freedom in the wake of death of the innocents?"

I will say...IF this was some kind of horrible plot...how more effective could it possibly have been?

While this IS a tragedy I can't stop but think how hypocritical those tears are when the US army has killed hundreds upon hundreds of kids and families with their bombings in iraq, afghanistan and so on...

Reply to post by Alda1981

Collateral damage, while just as awful, is not the same as going to a school as a private citizen for the sole purpose of killing anything that moves.

You know it's not the same and yet your brain cannot stop from attacking TPOTUS. If he doesn't react to the shooting he's wrong. If he is visibly upset about the shooting, he's not only wrong but trying to wipe away the 2nd amendment? Are you even serious?
Who the hell said anything about wiping out the 2nd amendment?


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by spinalremain


from the op post, what the kenyan said,

from Obama's speech "...As a country we have been thru this too many times...and we are going to have to come together and take meaningful action...regardless of the politics..."

what the hell do you think he means, arm everybody so they can kill crazy people that attack defenseless women and childern. man that would be taking "meaningful action...regardless of the politics..." wouldn't it.

have no doubt about it, he or some of the his anti gun cronies are gonna go aftere our 2nd amendment rights.
are sure as the sun will rise on Dec 22nd.

Originally posted by spinalremain
Reply to post by Alda1981

 

Collateral damage, while just as awful, is not the same as going to a school as a private citizen for the sole purpose of killing anything that moves.

You know it's not the same and yet your brain cannot stop from attacking TPOTUS. If he doesn't react to the shooting he's wrong. If he is visibly upset about the shooting, he's not only wrong but trying to wipe away the 2nd amendment? Are you even serious?
Who the hell said anything about wiping out the 2nd amendment?

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

collateral damage of WHAT exactly? of your troops INVADING countries for their oil? are you freaking kidding me now? yea its not the same... its worst... its ENDORSED by the US goverment...

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I tell you this much Johnny. I'm not angry at the position you've taken here. I'm actually very glad for it. You've helped me understand my own position with moire depth. A special quality that seems all to reserved for ATS.

reply to post by rival


Good thread Rival. Right on time.

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

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The problem for those of us that know how humans behave and know that prohibition has never worked on anything...we look like monsters and freaks for speaking up to defend the Constitution in such a horrible time. "How can you defend freedom in the wake of death of the innocents?"

Count me as a monster then because there are more important issues at stake here than anyone's feelings - parents of dead children included.
No, I'm going to willingly give up any rights even if it would make them feel better.
I see most of the country getting used like tools right now.
People think television is reality and yet they call me crazy,

reply to post by Asktheanimals


There is no force on earth that can disarm the American people. We have too much landmass, and nowhere near enough cops or military. Calling in the UN would simply give a bunch of angry people something to shoot at.

The worlds most capable army couldn't disarm the sandbox, no one can disarm us. This isn't a postage stamp European nation; our largest states could comfortably contain all of Western Europe within their borders.

We are going to have to address the cultural, systemic issues that make certain portions of the American male population so incredibly violent, hateful and stupid. We should start with mental health, completely reform education, and so on, long before we ever contemplate trying to wage a second civil war on ourselves over handguns.

Just my 2 coppers, and I do not own, nor have I ever owned a handgun.

A lot of the time the killing is not from the guns of the criminals but the guns that are sold to make money.
The problem seems to be illegal gun owners. The guns that are unaccounted for. I think to solve that problem, give those people a license to own a gun. To get the license the person is required to turn in two guns. Then the person licensed to own a gun can buy a gun.

Taking the guns away from the people is not an option but to stop selling guns like guns are like fishing poles would be the right idea, I think.

I have not seen any writing about what to do about the schools? There are about 140,000 schools in America which includes kindergarten through college public and private. The car companies were protected. Now it is time to protect the children.

The National Guard should be guarding the schools and metal detectors installed during the vacation which should have started today.