Stories of Jesus in Islamic tradition.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


More proof that you haven't read the parts of the Bible that are pertinent to these topics or know anything about the disciples who walked with Jesus.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Jesus' life in the bible sounds like a narration of a story. The unknown writers of the gospels have simply pieced together what they believed happened and compiled a sequence of events... several years AFTER Jesus' "death". So the odds of mistakes and fabrications appearing in the final account are enormous.

Once again, if you knew the Bible, you would know that Jesus told his disciples that he would send them the Holy Spirit to bring all things to remembrance.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The people putting together the final canon of the bible didn't even proof-read it to check for contradictions. Which is why Judas dies in 2 different ways.... the "resurrection" scenes are all varying....and one gospel has an account of zombies while not being mentioned in the other gospels.

Yet they were still canonized because the "contradictions" weren't pertinent to the story being told. The basis of the stories were all the same.

Originally posted by buster2010
I hate to break it to you but the bible is hardly an accurate account of Jesus.

I hate to break it to you .. but the point I was making is that there is NO WAY the Quran is an accurate account when it was written hundreds of years after Christ and there are no primary sources. We have a much better chance of the gospels in the bible at least being somewhat accurate than a bunch of stories made up by a murdering thief (Muhammad) making up a religion (Islam)600 years later.

Not to mention the people who somehow got it into their heads that Jesus is God because Jesus never said pray to me before you pray to God.

John 14:8 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves."

reply to post by Deetermined

More proof that you haven't read the parts of the Bible that are pertinent to these topics or know anything about the disciples who walked with Jesus.

If you are talking about Jesus' human sacrifice... God never demanded it.
Jesus "death" was a roman style execution... not a "sin sacrifice".

Yet they were still canonized because the "contradictions" weren't pertinent to the story being told. The basis of the stories were all the same.

Details matter.
If people were unsure about what happened with Judas, the tomb, the zombies... etc. then there's a good chance that they missed out on a lot of other details. Doesn't look like the bibles account is a very reliable book.

reply to post by mideast


Mideast, you are way too defensive and paranoid.

I know you don't like me or anyone else that has an argument different from yours, but I'm in no way trying to start a political argument, although I know you would like that.

Peace.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Jesus own words are in the bible only. They were recorded there by his followers themselves.

This is debatable.

No .. it's not.

... and yet the account is written from a third person perspective. ... Jesus' life in the bible sounds like a narration of a story.

Wanna' talk about poor disjointed writing? The QURAN is full of it. Loaded with syntax errors and 'Allah' talking in the first person then the third person then as narration and then praying to himself. It's a mess.

The unknown writers of the gospels have simply pieced together what they believed happened and compiled a sequence of events... several years AFTER Jesus' "death". So the odds of mistakes and fabrications appearing in the final account are enormous

1 - The writers of the gospels are very much known.

2 - What you just wrote describes the QURAN stories of Jesus .. not the bible stories.

3 - The Gospels were written within a few decades of Christ's death .. and written by those that were with him and by those that studied under those that were with him. The QURAN was written HUNDREDS of years after Jesus and it had absolutely NO PRIMARY SOURCES to compile from. It was just a bunch of made up stories by UNKNOWN AUTHORS.

You have just sunk your own Quran stories on Jesus.

Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
That is wrong. Both Allah and God are the same deity and both the Jesus in Islam and the Jesus in Christianity are the same person. Both religions are a continuation of a much older religion.

That is wrong.

Allah and God are NOT the same deity because JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE. When you muslims start worshiping Jesus as God Incarnate .. THEN Christians and Muslims will have the same God. Until then ... totally different gods.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n

If you are talking about Jesus' human sacrifice... God never demanded it.
Jesus "death" was a roman style execution... not a "sin sacrifice".

Some of the verses have already been pointed out to you in this thread and yet you still ignore them. Pull off the blinders, Skorpion. Read what Jesus had to say about having the power to lay down his life on his own and take it up again. Jesus took it upon himself to die for his sheep. I see that you never read John 10. Jesus did say it was God's will.

Details matter.
If people were unsure about what happened with Judas, the tomb, the zombies... etc. then there's a good chance that they missed out on a lot of other details. Doesn't look like the bibles account is a very reliable book.

That's why most of the stories are all repeated in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John. The basis of the stories don't change. Nothing of "significance" would have been missed.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

I think I'll take the stories that are around in the Quran now .. add to them .. subtract from them .. and even add a bunch of new stories that I think may have happened. What the heck ... why not? It'll get people's attention and they'll want more. So I'll make up even more stories. And I think I'm going to have these stories make Muhammad look very different from what the Quran says. A whole different guy.

This is pretty much exactly how the New Testament was written. Jesus was made into a whole different guy.

Um .. no. That's how the QURAN put together stories about Jesus.

- The gospels were written by the people who were there and by people who knew Jesus apostles and mother.
- The QURAN made up stories about Jesus hundreds of years later and are based on NOTHING.

So answer my question .. would you buy the book I'm writing about Muhammad?

- it's been hundreds of years since he's been here.
- I have no primary sources. I have no solid information on him.
- I'm going to make up a bunch of nonsense stories to paint Muhammad as I wish him to be.
- Everything I write is going to contradict what the Quran says.
- I'm going to tell people that Allah told me to write the book, even though it's just a bunch of hoooey from my imagination,

So would you buy the book on Muhammad? NO?
It wouldn't make sense to believe anything I would write about Muhammad, would it?
Then you shouldn't buy what the QURAN says about Jesus either.
That's exactly how the Quran stories about Jesus came to be.
A bunch of made up nonsense.

The Quran stories on Jesus - made up, hundreds of years after Christ by a murdering thief (muhammad), to make Jesus look like something different than what the gospels say .. the gospels which were written by those who actual knew Jesus.

NOT BUYING THE QURAN STORIES.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Not that it matters because all of the "Jesus" quotes that Skorpion listed say absolutely nothing about Jesus himself or his life. Only quotes addressed to others.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
If you are talking about Jesus' human sacrifice... God never demanded it.
Jesus "death" was a roman style execution... not a "sin sacrifice".

Again you show that you don't know biblical scripture at all.
Either that, or you are just telling lies to convince Christians to leave Christianity.
Jesus the Suffering Servant

Jesus fulfills the prophecy of Isaiah about the Suffering Servant bearing the iniquities (sins) of humanity.

Isaiah 53 - The prophecy of Jesus

52:13 Behold, my servant shall prosper, he shall be exalted and lifted up, and shall be very high. 52:14 As many were astonished at him ­­his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance, and his form beyond that of the sons of men ­­ 52:15 so shall he sprinkle many nations; kings shall shut their mouths because of him;
for that which has not been told them they shall see, and that which they have not heard they shall understand.
53:1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed? 53:2 For he grew up before him like a young plant, and like a root out of dry ground; he had no form or comeliness that we should look at him, and no beauty that we should desire him. 53:3 He was despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and as one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. 53:4 Surely he has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted. 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth; like a lamb that is led to the slaughter, and like a sheep that before its shearers is dumb, so he opened not his mouth. 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away; and as for his generation, who considered that he was cut off out of the land of the living, stricken for the transgression of my people? 53:9 And they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death, although he had done no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth. 53:10 Yet it was the will of the LORD to bruise him; he has put him to grief; when he makes himself an offering for sin, he shall see his offspring, he shall prolong his days; the will of the LORD shall prosper in his hand; 53:11 he shall see the fruit of the travail of his soul and be satisfied; by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous; and he shall bear their iniquities. 53:12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he poured out his soul to death,
and was numbered with the transgressors; yet he bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

JESUS THE LAMB OF GOD - WOUNDED FOR OUR SINS - BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED - AND IT'S GOD'S WILL. It's all there.

Details matter.

Yes .. it does matter.
1000 mistakes in the Quran

Doesn't look like the bibles account is a very reliable book.

- when it comes to the life of Jesus, it's a heck of a lot more reliable than the Quran.
- when it comes to pointing fingers at 'unreliable books' ... the Quran takes the lead in 'unreliable'

reply to post by FlyersFan


I gave this thread a star because if anything it has brought out a lack of understanding into the hows and whys of the translations .When I was about 12 ,I had a theory that god created different religions because he couldn`t reach all the people with just one religion.One of the most difficult things to do is to approach this subject with an open mind and to think of everything you have been taught as gospel is in fact "propaganda " furthering the needs of whomever held power at the time of the "translations". The Bible was written in the hand of man and is subject to human error. Also ,I dont think anyone alive today could accurately translate any_ ancient text because we didnt live back then. Words and their meanings change over time. In order to believe in something one must go to the core of your information. Who wrote it when ,where ,and why.As usual, Once I open my big fat mouth I usually put an end to discussion.Hi everyone! Chard

I hope you don't mind me posting a few good stories here also. I read some of these a few years ago and was very impressed with them. Thank you for reminding me of them. im now going back to reread some. There was one story i always liked about Jesus in the Quran that im trying to find right now. It was about a man living in a cave who asked Jesus to pray to god that he might experience just one atom of gods love. So jesus prayed for him and then went away. Sometime later Jesus was passing by that cave and decided to pay the man a visit. When he went into the cave he found the man staring at the wall with his mouth wide open completely unresponsive. He said lord what has happened to this man and god answered: this man prayed for one atom of my love, i gave him 1/4 of one atom and look at what it has done to him. Imagine if i had given him an entire atom.

Another story i just read which seems appropriate for ats- A man accompanied Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) the son of Maryam (Mary) and said that he would go with him. They continued along until they came to a river. They sat and started to eat. They had three loaves of bread. They ate two of them and one remained.

Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) went to the river, drank some water and returned. Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) did not find the third loaf, so he asked the man who had taken that loaf. The man said that he did not know.

They continued until they came to a doe followed by two fawns. Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) beckoned one of the fawns, killed it, roasted it and they ate it. Then Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) addressed the fawn [that had been eaten,] saying, "Live!" It came to life and went. Then Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) said to the man, "By the God Who has shown you this miracle, who took that loaf of bread?" The man said that he did not know.

They continued until they reached a lake. Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) took the hand of the man and led him over the water. When they reached the other side, Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) said, "By the One Who has shown you this miracle, who took that loaf of bread?" The man said that he did not know.

They continued until they reached a desert. They sat down. Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) gathered some sand or dust and said, "By the permission of Allah (SWT), be Gold!" It became Gold. He divided it into three portions.

Then Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) said, "One third is for me, one third for you, and one third for whoever took that loaf of bread."

The man said, "Alright, I took that loaf of bread."

Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) said, "Then all of this Gold is yours." Then he left him.

The man encountered two other men in the desert. They wanted to take his Gold and kill him. He said, "Let us divide the Gold into three portions." They sent one of them to the village to buy food.

The one who went said to himself, "Why should I let them have portions of this wealth? I shall put some poison into the food, and kill them." So, he poisoned the food.

The other two said, "Why should we give a third of this wealth to him. When he comes back, let us kill him, and divide the rest of the wealth between us."

When he returned, they attacked him and killed him. Then they ate the poisoned food and died. The wealth remained in the desert with the three dead men beside it.

Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) passed them and saw the situation. He said to his disciples, "This is the world, so beware of it!"

reply to post by charles1952


If your interest is in learning about historical facts then you wont get much from these teachings. Whether a real man lived and spoke these exact words or did these exact deeds at such and such a time is irrelevant. The only fact you need to know is that there are words on paper (or screen) right in front of you right now. Our job is to glean whatever wisdom we can from what is available to us right now. If the truth your searching for is historical then you should look elsewhere. These teachings point to a different kind of truth

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Maybe the real meaning of "Jesus died for our sins" is the fact that Jesus actively taught principles and ways of living that would help people to overcome their sins (seven deadly) and even when threatened with death he continued to teach. So he gave up his life so that he could deliver his message to help us become less sinful. Therefore he died for our sins and he died because of our sins. So if you simply rely on his death to help you but dont truly put his teachings into practice then you spit in his face and are no true christian. A true christian puts the teachings into practice to the best of their abilities and jesus never taught that you had to believe any story about him or join any organization.

Luke 22:70 is the most telling. It is clear in the Bible Jesus is God Himself.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

And so are you. But at the moment god is covered up by an individual ego. Just like if you hold your thumb up to the sky you can cover up the sun. But when the individual ego is completely let go of the sun can shine through. Jesus was simply an example of this- a man who overcame his 'self'. So Jesus is the example and he showed the path to follow to become the same.

17:22 The glory 61 you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one

Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) was once seen running away from a man. People were surprised to see him running away. Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) did not run away from anything or anybody. He was known for his goodness, humbleness and friendliness.

They asked him: "Isa, spirit of Allah, why are you running away from that man?"

Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) replied: "I am running away from a fool."

People were still more surprised, they knew that Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) was a prophet. He had cured the sick. He had even brought the dead to life. So they said: "But Isa, spirit of Allah, you have power to bring dead to life."

Prophet Isa (Jesus, peace upon him) smiled and said: "True, I have brought dead to life. But I find it difficult to bring a fool to his senses."

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by mideast

 

Mideast, you are way too defensive and paranoid.

I know you don't like me or anyone else that has an argument different from yours, but I'm in no way trying to start a political argument, although I know you would like that.

Peace.

You said I don't have access to bible in Iran because it is censored.

I call it political deflection , a political hit , and you call me paranoid.

I said I have access and I have downloaded those books.

Maybe you don't remember what you type and what you say ?

reply to post by mideast


No, I remember.

You accused me of trying to start a political argument and I told you I wasn't going to start one, so why rehash it?

Are you trying to start a political argument? I say you are.