Stories of Jesus in Islamic tradition.

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posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


It seems that this posts was solely written for the purpose of promoting a positive opinion of the Islamic faith. Not a bad idea.

However, while I appreciate your religious zeal, I think you're still a bit wet behind the ears You have made some claims regarding certain teaching of Christianity, which you say were never taught by Christ, nor can they be found clearly written within the Bible. I will only make one point regarding your claim.

According to the Islamic faith, Christ did not die on the Cross.

This is a heretic teaching in itself, because it is contradictory to what Christ taught.

John 15:13 “There is no greater love than this: that a person would lay down his life for the sake of his friends.”

Matthew 16:21 From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. ( Peter protested this statement, and Christ immediately rebuked him and said,, "Get behind me Satan!")

Luke 12:18-22 Then the Jews demanded of him, “What miraculous sign can you show us to prove your authority to do all this?”

19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”

20The Jews replied, “It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?” 21But the temple he had spoken of was his body. 22After he was raised from the dead, his disciples recalled what he had said. Then they believed the Scripture and the words that Jesus had spoken.

To deny that Jesus died on the Cross; To say this teaching is errant and came about by supposition, is to deny the word of Christ and what has in fact been clearly written.

Last note: I respect the Islamic faith and my Muslim friends. I do not discuss the similarities of Christ and Mary with them, because the similarities really don't exist. Instead, we focus on other points, like fasting, alms giving, serving God by helping others and so on.




posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 06:21 PM
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i find it intresting. could some one please explain now why muslims kill christians? i honestly now am confused. i thought muhamed was the messiah in islam did jesus and muhamed know each other in the koran. my spelling sucks please dont take offense if i miss spelled but please explain. iam curious i find this intresting.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 06:23 PM
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reply to post by blownaway
 


not all muslims kill christians but it happens not pointing the finger at every muslim. you know what i mean. but please explain my quistion. thanks.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Many thanks for the posting of these sayings.

May the depths of their wisdom find homes in good houses.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 06:45 PM
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Likes animals. Check.
Likes poor people. Check.
The material world is fleeting. Check.
Live in the present, but do not indulge. Check.
Don't look at women's clothes...ummm....

Interesting that "Teach a man to fish" seemingly became "feed the fish". Light-hearted joke...Of course, I realize that this is not the entirety of what Jesus says in the Quran. However, it is very interesting to see the similarities and the differences (which are outnumbered by the similarities).

I wonder if the truth of Jesus doesn't exist somewhere between these versions. Incidentally, not all sects of Christianity see him as God incarnate, just the son/lamb of God. It's my personal opinion that "son" is taken far too literally, rather than metaphorically, as a father would love his child and vice versa. Then again, I don't make the rules, so who cares what I think?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 06:59 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


It's a translation. So, if you are reading the Quran in English, you are reading translation. The differences in ordering are actually possible syntax in English, we just don't speak that way.

.........However.......and this is a big one, a Christian would be one to talk about awkward wording.....

The king James' Bible is full of "fun with syntax" and no wonder why, you translated Aramaic to Classical Greek to Late Latin, where it stayed as if entombed, written about and read by people who did not speak that language, ultimately being translated into 15th and 16th century vernaculars that then imprisoned it for another few hundred years until we "modernized" the liturgy. And let's not forget that the powerful at certain periods got to remove whole books.

Pristine...



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



Your analysis of Jesus dying for the sins of all men is not based in scripture, but on what you believe to be logical.


Wheres it written that scripture cannot be assessed logically?

If Christians say Jesus death was a "sin sacrifice" and the account shows us that Jesus' "death" was a Roman execution.... then clearly the Christians are interpreting scripture incorrectly.
God did not ask for a human sin sacrifice, so the idea that Jesus death was a "sin sacrifice" is refuted. This is a theology that crept in after Jesus' "death".




Son of God. Appears 140 times.

"Son of God" is just a title.
Even David and Adam are called "son of God", but we don't see Christians declaring them to be divine.
Furthermore, Jesus is also called "Son of David".... as a title.




Mat 20:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many."
Mat 26:28 (Jesus Himself is speaking)
This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.


"Ransom" is something demanded by kidnappers and nasty people who hold others against their will unjustly. Jesus giving his life as "ransom" indicates he had to pay off some cruel entity who demanded that ransom. Are Christians willing to accept that God demanded that "ransom" for sin? God Himself tells us that sins can be forgiven through prayer and repentance.






Let's start to address your lies. First we can deal with "Ransom".

ran·som/ˈræn səm/ Show Spelled [ran-suh m] Show IPA
noun
1. the redemption of a prisoner, slave, or kidnapped person, of captured goods, etc., for a price.
3. a means of deliverance or rescue from punishment for sin, especially the payment of a redemptive fine.
verb (used with object)
4. to redeem from captivity, bondage, detention, etc., by paying a demanded price.
6. to deliver or redeem from punishment for sin.

Can you show me where "nasty people" have anything to do with the definition? I didn't think so.

Now let's deal with "Son of God". You claim David and Adam are called Son of God. What verse? It's a complete lie. that phrase is only used to describe Jesus, and is not used in the Old Testament ever, not once that I am aware of.

Use logic, but you are denying scripture and instead inputting what YOU believe is logical, not what IS logical. I gave you verses that 100% say Jesus' death was a sin sacrifice, do you care to address the scripture? Didn't think so.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:10 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 



How do you expect Christians to disregard older (closer to the source) writings in favor of newer writings that contradict the earliest known records of Jesus? Why should they?


Well, I'm just sharing the Islamic accounts of the same man... not asking anybody to disregard their bibles.

With the OP, I'm only focusing on his wisdom and words, as recorded in Islamic tradition.
I'm saying "Look at the wisdom of Jesus... look at how Jesus lived... look at how devoted Jesus was to God".


No, you are sharing Islamic accounts that contradict Biblical accounts. They are not the same man. So in order to accept Islamic Jesus, Biblicam Jesus must be denied. Again I ask, why should a Christian deny Biblican Jesus that has actual historical authenticity behind Him, in favor of Islamic Jesus that does not?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Aesir26
 




It is interesting that followers of Islam deny the crucifiction:


Its because muslims believe God saved Jesus.

Its because muslims believe Jesus was a righteous man and did not deserve the brutal death Christians say he suffered.

Its because muslims believe Jesus' prayers to be rescued were answered.




Islamic Jesus is not righteous, he is selfish. Christian Jesus is righteous because He did not pray to be saved, he accepted His fate because of His love. Islamic Jesus cares more about himself than he does about the world. Had Jesus prayed to be rescued He would have been. He chose the righteous path instead of the selfish path.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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Actually, Jesus DID pray that the cup be passed from his lips (although he added that he accepted God's will over his own).

Also, are you suggesting that the "righteous path" was the one that involved bloody human sacrifice?
Yeah...no, sorry, that doesn't work.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:22 PM
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Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Christians have only misinterpreted their Bibles to conclude that Jesus is God Himself. .


More like .. Muslims really dont' want Jesus to be God Incarnate because, if it's true, that means the whole Muslim religion is based on error. So Muslims go around saying that Christians have 'misinterpreted' the bible. It makes the Muslims feel better. They think they know the bible better than Christians and Christian churches that have been around for 2,000 years.


Jesus is God Incarnate. The bible and the vast majority of the Christian churches say so.
Islam, which was invented HUNDREDS of years after Christ, denies this.

The Qur'an is NOT an accurate account of the life of Christ. It's just a story that Muhammad poorly translated from what he heard from the Jews and Christians of his time.

I hate to break it to you but the bible is hardly an accurate account of Jesus. Simply because the bible was written well after his death and the bible has been rewritten many times over the years unlike the Qur'an. Not to mention the people who somehow got it into their heads that Jesus is God because Jesus never said pray to me before you pray to God.


Care to back your opinion up with facts?

The earliest papyrus manuscripts come very close to the time when the New Testament was written.


For about sixty years now a tiny papyrus fragment of the Gospel of John has been the oldest "manuscript" of the New Testament. This manuscript (P52) has generally been dated to ca. A.D. 125. This fact alone proved that the original Gospel of John was written earlier, viz. in the first century A.D., as had always been upheld by conservative scholars.


We now have early and very early evidence for the text of the New Testament. A classified list of the most important manuscripts will make this clear. Numbers preceded by a P refer to papyri, the letters refer to parchment manuscripts.

library.duke.edu...

Most of the oldest works of Plato were written over a thousand years after his death. The Chronology of Shakespeare's plays are not even known and he only lived several hundred years ago.

The accuracy of the New Testament is actually quite astounding. I am sorry you are not interested in facts.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Deetermined
 




So, did Jesus ever say that he was coming back to live another 40 years on earth before he dies or was that purely conjecture on Muhammad's part?


Much like Christians rely on OT prophets for prophecies on Jesus... Muslims rely on Mohammad.


God also told us that repentance through prayer wouldn't have been possible without Christ dying first. That's why there used to be animal sacrifices before Christ's death.


God never demanded human sacrifices.... and Jesus' "death" was a barbaric Roman style execution.... not a "sacrifice" to God. Besides God never asked for a human sacrifice.


No, we do not rely on OT prophets for the words Jesus spoke. We have extremely early written accounts of the life of Jesus, and they do not at all mesh with what Mohammad wrote about Him.

I gave you verses where Jesus' death is 100% called a sin sacrifice in the Bible. Care to address it?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by FlyersFan
 




Jesus own words are in the bible only. They were recorded there by his followers themselves.


This is debatable.

For example...all of Jesus' followers were fast asleep when he was praying in the garden before his arrest. There were no witnesses around... and yet the account is written from a third person perspective.

Another example is during Jesus' encounter with Satan. Again there was nobody around... and yet the account is from a third person perspective.

Jesus' life in the bible sounds like a narration of a story. The unknown writers of the gospels have simply pieced together what they believed happened and compiled a sequence of events... several years AFTER Jesus' "death". So the odds of mistakes and fabrications appearing in the final account are enormous.
edit on 10-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


Jesus could easilly have shared the story of what happened and what He said. Not a compelling argument at all. The fact that we have extremely early written accounts of the life of Jesus very much nullifies error. Relying on Mohammad who had no personal experience at all is how error can be introduced. Why is an account written from first hand knowledge inferior to Mohammad's account which has zero personal experience in it?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:29 PM
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Originally posted by SpeachM1litant
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


That is wrong. Both Allah and God are the same deity and both the Jesus in Islam and the Jesus in Christianity are the same person. Both religions are a continuation of a much older religion.


Saying it does not make it so. You are right in your second statement, Christianity is the continuation of Judaism, Islam is the ripping off of Judaism. The "deity" represented in Islam does not in any way, shape, or form, match the "deity" of the other two though.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by joshuaislord

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Well it is nice of you to post that, but no Christian will care much about words attributed to Jesus in Islamic tradition. Yahweh and Allah are not the same being. In order to accept the Jesus of Islam one must deny the Jesus of the Bible. The two are mutually exclusive.


Your statement is invalid. It is very important to understand and accept all cultures and religions whether you agree with it or not. Do the Muslim not worship one creator ? Do the Jews not worship one as well and the Christians ? We all speak of the same creator of the old testament but our language have called him different names. I think its time we stop separating ourselves from eachother and dividing, instead we should be uniting, coming together to realize there is only but one creator and we are all invited to be his instruments of peace!


Sorry, the only invalid statement is that Islam and Christianity have the same God. I am not here to debate which one is true and which is fale, they can not both be true (they can both be false). I accept people are free to believe whatever they want, if you mean to infer we need to accept everyone is right, that is not logically possible. In order for one to be right, the others must all be wrong. You are correct, there is only one Creator, but He can not be the same Creator everyone worships. If your creator says X is wrong, and y is right, and mine says x is right, and y is wrong, they are not the same creator. Logically impossible.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Deetermined
 



More proof that you haven't read the parts of the Bible that are pertinent to these topics or know anything about the disciples who walked with Jesus.


If you are talking about Jesus' human sacrifice... God never demanded it.
Jesus "death" was a roman style execution... not a "sin sacrifice".



Yet they were still canonized because the "contradictions" weren't pertinent to the story being told. The basis of the stories were all the same.


Details matter.
If people were unsure about what happened with Judas, the tomb, the zombies... etc. then there's a good chance that they missed out on a lot of other details. Doesn't look like the bibles account is a very reliable book.
edit on 11-12-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)


You keep mentioning zombies, what verse in the Bible has zombies?



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by babloyi
 





Also, are you suggesting that the "righteous path" was the one that involved bloody human sacrifice?


Read Exodus 12, the Passover Lamb.

Isaiah did say he'd be killed for the sins of many

Isaiah 53

Who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant,
And as a root out of dry ground.
He has no form or comeliness;
And when we see Him,
There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
3 He is despised and rejected by men,
A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief.
And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him;
He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.

4 Surely He has borne our griefs
And carried our sorrows;
Yet we esteemed Him stricken,
Smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
We have turned, every one, to his own way;
And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He opened not His mouth;
He was led as a lamb to the slaughter,
And as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
So He opened not His mouth.
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment,
And who will declare His generation?
For He was cut off from the land of the living;
For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9 And they[a] made His grave with the wicked—
But with the rich at His death,
Because He had done no violence,
Nor was any deceit in His mouth.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him;
He has put Him to grief.
When You make His soul an offering for sin,
He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days,
And the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied.
By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many,
For He shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great,
And He shall divide the spoil with the strong,
Because He poured out His soul unto death,
And He was numbered with the transgressors,
And He bore the sin of many,
And made intercession for the transgressors.

John 12:27-41

27 “Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, save Me from this hour’? But for this purpose I came to this hour. 28 Father, glorify Your name.”

Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have both glorified it and will glorify it again.”

29 Therefore the people who stood by and heard it said that it had thundered. Others said, “An angel has spoken to Him.”

30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.

34 The people answered Him, “We have heard from the law that the Christ remains forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?”

35 Then Jesus said to them, “A little while longer the light is with you. Walk while you have the light, lest darkness overtake you; he who walks in darkness does not know where he is going. 36 While you have the light, believe in the light, that you may become sons of light.” These things Jesus spoke, and departed, and was hidden from them.

Who Has Believed Our Report?

37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”

39 Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again:

40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts,
Lest they should see with their eyes,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”

41 These things Isaiah said when he saw His glory and spoke of Him


You can believe it or not, but i'm betting you won't believe it, not from me and not from a prophet now dead 2700 years passed.
edit on 11-12-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:46 PM
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Originally posted by emeris



Luke 22:70 is the most telling. It is clear in the Bible Jesus is God Himself.
reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 

And so are you. But at the moment god is covered up by an individual ego. Just like if you hold your thumb up to the sky you can cover up the sun. But when the individual ego is completely let go of the sun can shine through. Jesus was simply an example of this- a man who overcame his 'self'. So Jesus is the example and he showed the path to follow to become the same.


17:22 The glory 61 you gave to me I have given to them, that they may be one just as we are one



No, I am not God. Nor are you. I have already shown multiple verses in the Bible that distinguish that Jesus is God. He is the only one called the Son of God. Please show me verses in the Bible that claim all people are God. PM it to me though, I do not want to hijack the thread.



posted on Dec, 11 2012 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by babloyi
Actually, Jesus DID pray that the cup be passed from his lips (although he added that he accepted God's will over his own).

Also, are you suggesting that the "righteous path" was the one that involved bloody human sacrifice?
Yeah...no, sorry, that doesn't work.


Jesus prayed that IF there was another way, let that way happen. Jesus did not relish the cross, but He was willing. Had He prayed on the cross to be saved, He would have been. Yes, the "righteous path" is the one that results in the salvation of all mankind. Are you suggesting the righteous path is the one that results in all mankind being damned?
Yeah...no, sorry, that doesn't work.



posted on Dec, 12 2012 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by OccamsRazor04
 


Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Had He prayed on the cross to be saved, He would have been.

Would he have? According to your scriptures, he seemed quite troubled that God had forsaken him on the cross.


Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Yes, the "righteous path" is the one that results in the salvation of all mankind. Are you suggesting the righteous path is the one that results in all mankind being damned?

So you believe that for mankind to be saved, an innocent man had to be brutally tortured and executed, the more brutal, the better. Cool.

Getting back to the original topic, rather than you're-right-I'm-right bickering, quite a few of the "Muslim" traditions involving Jesus originate not from the Islamic scripture, but from later muslim scholars or religious figures (he is a favourite of the esoteric branches of Islam), so I'm a bit more wary of them, but still, some of them are really interesting.

For example, while Jesus is famed in Islam for being a Prophet who discarded material living, here is one saying:
"Jesus met a man and asked him, What are you doing? 'I am devoting myself to God,' the man replied. Jesus asked, 'Who is caring for you?' 'My brother,' said the man. Jesus said, 'Your brother is more devoted to God than you are'."
edit on 12-12-2012 by babloyi because: (no reason given)



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