since everyone seems to be cool w/ judging entire religions as good or evil / violent or loving, thought I'd stop the christianity wagon that's rolling.

world war 2 recent enough?
seeing as how germany was mostly protestants and some catholics - (all christians in the basic sense) and seeing how Hitler did not personally kill over 6million people by himself...
We'll blame the germans -christians - for that little faux pas.
Then.. the mighty christian armies coming to oppose themselves.. how many civilians dead in the two atomic bomb blasts? 71,000 or so at hiroshima alone?
80,000 dead in the firebombing of tokyo? over 100,000 dead in dresden?


look.. both sides make good points. I suggest blaming specific individuals for their individual acts of evil or else you are practising hate on an entire religion.


How many chrisitians out there actually living like christ?
How many people did Christ kill?
What about the people he knew would betray him, the people who tried him, sentenced him and hung him up on a piece of wood to die???
Didn't he get a single punch in? a single bloody nose or anything?

Oh, that's right. he didn't fight back.
Because compared to the next life w/ his Father - this life was worth being sacrifcied for what he believed in.


just a thought.

hey im not here saying christianity is exempt from doing sh it to others in the past or even now. however i bet a strong case could be made that right about now the muslims have offed more people in comparison. but regardless thats not my point with my da mn posts here. my point is to come in here and see if some of these muslims can give me some good arguments on why their side of what they believe is true islam is actually true islam when comparing them to the violent side of islam that the followers of that side claim is the true islam. thats all man. not a single good argument has been provided for me. all anyone has every said was a .....thats just the way it is--- thats islamic law..... kind of argument. hardly a good argument at all. not what i am looking for.

alone has indicated that its just like us christians trying to defend the true teachings of christ against those who abuse it... fine ya i understand man. i could come up with that concept alone. if you ask me how do i defend my case against the abusive so called christians you think an argument of .... thats not the way the bible teaches , thats not christian law yadda yadda..... is going to fly? of course not. it doesn't do any debate any good to come with that kind of so called supportive argument. its shallow regardless if it is true or not... its shallow... void of meat for argumentative purposes. so a good argument against the violent side of islam has FAILED to materialize on here. not my fault. im just questioning. its like if i was going into an interview tomorrow with an islamic terrorist and i come in here and ask the loving muslims on here what arguments should i put forward to knock the militant muslims arguments down when he claims he is practicing true islam. you get my intention here? im just trying to see if some of these muslims can educate me with some good argumentative material for there side agains the other side.

im not here at all to say christians are the most righteous of all or whatever. so please dont confuse my message or intention. because my intention has been confused before so i am not surprised it will be or still is confused by the muslims on here.

Originally posted by krossfyter
well lets see... they hold true to the law of forced conversion right? they believe infidels are those who dont believe in what they believe.... that america is the great satan. that the christians and jews should all be put to death. thats in stark contrast to what you all believe i hope. where do they get this from? i dont think they get it from the alice in wonderland story.. they get it from islamic law right? okay.

Krossfyter, please read the following verses, and the verse in my signature.

"Say: 'O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.' If then they turn back, say ye: 'Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God's Will).'" - The Quran 3:64

"Strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, 'We are Christians': because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant." - The Qur'an 5:82

15:2-3 "Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them)."

27:92 "And to rehearse the Qur'an: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: 'I am only a Warner.'"

2:256 "Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things."

109:1-6 "Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine."

42:15 "Now then, for that (reason), call (them to the Faith), and stand steadfast as thou art commanded, nor follow thou their vain desires; but say: 'I believe in the Book which God has sent down; and I am commanded to judge justly between you. God is our Lord and your Lord: for us (is the responsibility for) our deeds, and for you for your deeds. There is no contention between us and you. God will bring us together, and to Him is (our) Final Goal.'"

Krossfyter, is this "argument" for you now?

If you can find a hidden message there to murder anybody who isn't Muslim, please find it and tell me about it. I'll say it for the 132428493274927th time, what the terrorists are doing is exactly against the Qur'ans teachings.

Oh and, as much as I love the US, it is a country that killed off all the indians basically, over 300 slaves during the entire trade, has sexual relationships that i cant even imagine in my head, and is number one in murder, suicide, rape, and any crime you can think of.

Krossfyter, where have you been?

If you analyze these points, the US IS the great satan.

Reprove not a scorner , lest he hate thee :
rebuke a wise man , and he will love thee .
Give instruction to a wise man , and he will be yet wiser:
teach a man , and he will increase in learning.
[Proverbs 9:8 , 9 ]

And so , ''''And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold , then will follow....the abomination of desolation , spoken of by Daniel the prophet;When the Son of man cometh , shall He find faith on earth ? [Mattew .24 :12 ;24 :15 ;[Luke 18 :8 ]

"i dont need to walk around in circles, walk around in circles, walk around in.." --- soul coughing

I don't think that an Asteroid is going to bother itself with who is what religion...and the end will just be the end....

other questions that could be answered by a muslim:


since anotherone seems to be the only answering them or trying to i guess this is for him...

1) you qoute the bible... you even quote the new testament. why qoute it if you dont believe in it? you say well some of it is okay some of it is corrupt? where is the line drawn? how is it drawn for you? seems like you are picking and choosing. you know if our scripture contains error then why use it against us right?

if your going to qoute the bible and believe it then qoute this...


Colossians 1: 14-20

1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, eveb the forgiveness of sins:
1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him
1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, whether things in earth, or things in heaven.

2) who said jesus was just a prophet?
Why does it says in the koran that jesus was sinless. Koran says every other prophet has sinned except jesus. Doesnt make sense. where am i wrong?

3)koran says Jesus will come again and fight against the antichrist...
why isnt he coming back to fight the anti mohhamed? since he was the last prophet why does it say hes coming back to fight the antichrist? where am i wrong?


i think these questions show that Jesus is more then a prophet in the koran.














[Edited on 6-5-2003 by krossfyter]

there will be no anti mohammed. there will be an anit Christ.


whos more important now?!

booyah.



obviously Jesus Christ is so dangerous to the fabric of evil that there needs to be an anti force in reaction against the only one who saves and is sinless.
Makes sense.


thanks for trying to answer my questions. i appreciate it. seems like you ae still dodging and moving and what not but i guess that what they teach you all to do with christians like netchicken said. so okay fine. i now fully understand.


Jesus is Lord.

no one else is needed for salvation.

i think illmatic is suppose to step in now to try and help you out. i thought he was muslim too? you did say you were the only muslim on here right alone?

Originally posted by krossfyter
i think illmatic is suppose to step in now to try and help you out. i thought he was muslim too? you did say you were the only muslim on here right alone?

hah

Why should he help me out? I refuted every single post of yours, lol. You haven't proven ONE point yet.

Have fun trying

Peace

Originally posted by krossfyter
there will be no anti mohammed. there will be an anit Christ.

You have reading issues, please re-read my original reply. I said the term is false messiah and not anti-christ. BTW, tell me what "Christ" means.

whos more important now?!

God is most important.

booyah.

Booyakasha.

obviously Jesus Christ is so dangerous to the fabric of evil that there needs to be an anti force in reaction against the only one who saves and is sinless.
Makes sense.

I completely agree.

thanks for trying to answer my questions. i appreciate it. seems like you ae still dodging and moving and what not but i guess that what they teach you all to do with christians like netchicken said. so okay fine. i now fully understand.

You are sick LOL. Dodging questions?? Since when?? Find me one person on this board that will support your claim of me dodging questions. If ANYONE is dodging question it is YOU who only replies to parts of posts that he CAN reply to lmao.

I reply to EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE of yours. Perhaps you need to get hooked on phonix

Oh and nope, you don't understand anything. I will pray to God to forgive you, because you have been influenced by your parents, peers, and church as well probably.

I truly will pray for you.

Jesus is Lord.

Jesus never claimed to be God, not once in the entire "Holy" Bible. You will eventually find you're wrong.

no one else is needed for salvation.

So are you actually telling me Jesus lied? He never said that belief in the sacrificial Christ was necessary for salvation.

But let's just assume I am right and you are wrong.

If I am right, you are worshipping one of God's messengers, God will probably forgive you because you are under pressure by family, peers, social status, church, etc. but don't bet on it - you've been showing Islamic hatred, rage, and anger ever since you got on this board.

Now........if you are right, and I am wrong. Let's see. I don't worship any of God's messengers although I respect them and love them. I am a good person as well, help others, and am very considerate.

Why don't we ask "your Lord"?

"On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. 'Teacher,' he asked, 'What must I do to inherit eternal life?' 'What is written in the Law?' Jesus replied. 'How do you read it?' He answered: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 'You have answered correctly,' Jesus replied. 'Do this and you will live.'" - Luke 10:25-28

I have nothing to fear.

Nevertheless...........

I am right - You are wrong.

ALLAHU AKBAR - GOD IS GREAT.

Peace!

PS: Give up the self assertion shots

ok Another- one........copy and paste from an Islamic site...

For example, Muslims - like Jews - reject the Christian beliefs of the Trinity and the Divine Incarnation. This, however, doesn't mean that each of these three religions worships a different God - because, as we have already said, there is only One True God. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be "Abrahamic Faiths", and all of them are also classified as "monotheistic". However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.


I'll tell you what i find wrong with this paragraph???

First of all, How can the Islamic God be the same as the Christian God ???

First of all , Jesus Christ said ''no one comes to the Father but by Me'''........

If Muslims do not accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God......How can the Muslims have one and the same God ???


Another -one ,can you please explain this for me???

(This is a copy and paste )

The word “God” is about a being afar-off yourself, myself, ourselves and away from the whole existence, who created the everything from outside, who observes us from outside and who, based on his judgement about ourselves, will either throw us into his Hell or admit us to his Paradise!..

(So is this )

A group of unaware people who pass judgements about the “Religion” based on their hearsay and false information, have been employing the word “GOD” instead of the name “ALLAH,” being unaware of the matter and thinking that these words both carry the same meaning, and also relating it with their patriotism according to their whims...

So, the common name GOD is not synonymous for the proper noun “ALLAH,” and is not an equivalent for “ALLAH.” “God” is a very common phrase! Therefore one should never translate the name “ALLAH” as “GOD.”

One should never call “ALLAH” as “god,”

The statement “la ilaha ill-Allah” means “there is no god, there is ALLAH alone


God” is a bugaboo to be “frightened!”

“God” is a fictitious balooney sculpted in people's minds in accordance with the humankind's perception, adorned and smartened up with various faculties and assumed as a possessor of people’s imaginary ascriptions, at every age and in every community depending on the level of people's understanding.

Now Another-one, can you tell me if '''God '''' and ''''Allah '''is one and the same???

As i said in previous thread.......men,women and children were killed(slaughtered ) because they did not say '''Allah '''.......................

Prove me wrong!!!...............

First of all, How can the Islamic God be the same as the Christian God ???

Helen, you answered your own question in the first paragraph. Unless you deny that the Jews worship the same God as the Christians.

Originally posted by helen670
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all claim to be "Abrahamic Faiths", and all of them are also classified as "monotheistic". However, Islam teaches that other religions have, in one way or another, distorted and nullified a pure and proper belief in Almighty God by neglecting His true teachings and mixing them with man-made ideas.

If Muslims do not accept Jesus Christ as the Son of God......How can the Muslims have one and the same God ???

The Jews also do not accept Jesus as a messiah or the Son of God. So you're saying that whatever deity the Jews worship, it's not the same as the deity worshipped by the Christians?

Interesting. I doubt you'll find many who agree with that.

You also seem unaware that the Old Testament is one of the holy books of the Muslims.

Another -one ,can you please explain this for me???

(This is a copy and paste )
The word “God” is about a being afar-off yourself, myself, ourselves and away from the whole existence, who created the everything from outside, who observes us from outside and who, based on his judgement about ourselves, will either throw us into his Hell or admit us to his Paradise!..

(So is this )
A group of unaware people who pass judgements about the “Religion” based on their hearsay and false information, have been employing the word “GOD” instead of the name “ALLAH,” being unaware of the matter and thinking that these words both carry the same meaning, and also relating it with their patriotism according to their whims...

So, the common name GOD is not synonymous for the proper noun “ALLAH,” and is not an equivalent for “ALLAH.” “God” is a very common phrase! Therefore one should never translate the name “ALLAH” as “GOD.”

One should never call “ALLAH” as “god,”

The statement “la ilaha ill-Allah” means “there is no god, there is ALLAH alone

God” is a bugaboo to be “frightened!”

“God” is a fictitious balooney sculpted in people's minds in accordance with the humankind's perception, adorned and smartened up with various faculties and assumed as a possessor of people’s imaginary ascriptions, at every age and in every community depending on the level of people's understanding.

Now Another-one, can you tell me if '''God '''' and ''''Allah '''is one and the same???

The translation of those paragraphs: They prefer to use the name "Allah" since the name "God" has become synonymous with a trigger-happy deity who throws everyone in the lake of fire depending on whim, circumstance, and poorly defined (and muchly argued -- some believe that just believing is enough, others say it's not true unless you're on your knees and reciting various prayers.))

Since the name of "God" belongs to a twisted and unclear concept (they say), it is preferrable to use "Allah" instead.

As i said in previous thread.......men,women and children were killed(slaughtered ) because they did not say '''Allah '''.......................

Well, the Christians also did this for many centuries. And if you visit places like Reverend (I use the term loosely) Phelps' church, you will find them advocating the slaughter of gays.

And then there was the Inquisition and other such institutions.

I'm not sure how muslims see it, but i'm sure it will involve a whole lot of slaughtering white guys.

And yeah, i do know we've slaughtered them before, they just choose to adopt it as their modern culture too and we dont.

Helen, you are very wrong.

Allah is not the name of God your right, but you have to break down the word Allah. al-llah. "al" means The and ilah means God. The name ilah is found numerous times in the Hebrew scriptures as the name of God as Eloh, El, Elohim, ilah, etc.

So Allah means The God. Allah is the God.

Muslims call the God of Abraham the same name Jews call Him, while Christians either call Him Jesus or Jehovah, which in fact Jehovah wasnt even a word until the 1500's.

alhamdulillah

All Praise is due to God

I met a couple of Muslims in Saudi who were very much the model of human compassion, decency, manners, and respectfullness. they tried to convert me, politely, but when i explained i was not a christian, they sat back interestedly and listened, and were very fascinated by me views. I asked them similar questions about the jihad, they said that actos of violence were only acceptable when your family and home was endangered, or the lives of other Muslim brothers, or persons who were not able to protect themselves. They did say that even tho they felt the US was following a path of wrongness, acts of terrorism, like blowing up planes, bombing places in Israel full of civilians, or even bombing military, which, they said, not fighting your enemy face to face was cowardly, and killing them when they could not look at you before you killed them was very wrong. they also suprised me with thier views on women, explaining that Muslims who truly follow allahs will do not beat or mistreat women, but treat them with a protected revernce. I learned that there were many queens in the middle east who were revered and greatly loved, even today. The problem is the muslim fundies, like christian fundies, who take passages from the koran and twist it towards thier own needs. Thus, you have different sects, just like in Christianity.

Anyone remeber Aryan Nations? Those christian identity nuts? they believed that whites are really the chosen of god, the true israelites, and that all other races came from satan. they treat women lower than trash. And they have engaged in acts of violence. So, to all you christians on the board, let me ask you: are Aryan nations Christians REALLY christians?

Not any more than Bin Laden or Saddams lecherous, alcohol consuming pork eating sons were muslims.