The new budget offer from the White House is unbelievable!, page 1

Now, please work to put aside party politics for just a moment, because this transcends all that and the Dems in Congress should be just as alarmed as anyone else. Truly, absolutely alarmed.

House Republicans said on Thursday that Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner presented the House speaker, John A. Boehner, a detailed proposal to avert the year-end fiscal crisis with $1.6 trillion in tax increases over 10 years, an immediate new round of stimulus spending, home mortgage refinancing and a permanent end to Congressional control over statutory borrowing limits.

Mitch McConnell, the Senate Republican leader, says he “burst into laughter” Thursday when Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner outlined the administration proposal for averting the fiscal cliff. He wasn’t trying to embarrass Geithner, McConnell says, only responding candidly to his one-sided plan, explicit on tax increases, vague on spending cuts…

Source

This isn't just an unwinnable offer, it's an attack of the most basic premise of the separation of powers written into the United States form of Government. I don't mean or even care about the taxes. That can be undone later or whatever....if it gets to be as painful as I and many others think it may become. That definitely isn't the point at all. They're crossing beyond that.

This is what Treasury, as a part of the Executive Branch, would apparently like to do away with the trouble of having to bother with seeking in the future:




And this is what it looked like on a monthly basis (Last column on the right) for the prior year of the last dates the report covers. The full report shows the rest of the chart going back to 2001. I cropped it to limit date range for size only. No other changes made and the original linked report has the full version.


Source - Congressional Research Service

..and what makes this so crucial and absolutely unprecedented for the shift in power these 'demands' represent is this:

SECTION 8.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;

To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws on the subject of bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures;

Source - U.S. Constitution

Congressional control of the national purse isn't just a quinky dink thing they threw in there at the last moment because someone had to have control of it. Oh absolutely NOT. The Founding Fathers even discussed the idea of a joint Presidency between 2 equal men because of the concerns of too much power in the hands of the President......following such pleasant relations with King George. Congress has control of the Purse as the President has control of regulation and enforcement so each branch provides a check and balance to the other. It's so that no matter how whacky times may get for extremes getting into office from any side, there is too much and too many required to go whacky in line for real damage to be done.

This would remove that in giving the power of the purse, effectively, to the executive Branch for spending into debt.

These are the same brilliant minds who have not passed a formal budget that would force guidelines to even stay inside of since early 2009. Now it's a demand, it would seem, to remove even the last restrictions on debt spending. I'm personally sickened by what this suggests for future thinking by our Treasury Secretary if no one else.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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Did you expect less Dear Wrabbit?

Congress is already ineffective, but this takes the ineffectiveness, and gives a few, the power to destroy this Country. Not like they aren't doing it already.

This is the same as "Executive Privilege". It would most certainly, be abused at some point.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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Isn't it wonderful?

A fiscal cliff looms on taxes.

The Sequestration looms.

The debt ceiling is going to max out in just a few weeks.

And people are worried about December 21st, 2012.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I'm damn near the point of saying...

Screw it, let's jump off the cliff already.

Maybe the house should burn down. It's ridden with termites and dry rot alraedy. We can build another after all is said and done.

And we won't have those pesky Democrats (Termites) and Republicans (Dry-rot) getting in the way.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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I'm damn near the point of saying...

Screw it, let's jump off the cliff already.

Maybe the house should burn down. It's ridden with termites and dry rot already. We can build another after all is said and done.

And we won't have those pesky Democrats (Termites) and Republicans (Dry-rot) getting in the way.

Well, by how the thinking seems to have flowed since around 2006, it's sure looking like we may get that leap whether we choose that or not. If not Jan. by some miracle, then even the CBO says the solution is only slightly better than the problem by adding another half trillion to the annual deficit in the process.....and that is before the idea of debt not being under Congressional authority comes into play. We also still have QE-3 putting out 40 billion a month or another near half trillion a year with open ended commitments. If the idea is to ruin the dollar, the effort is pretty well across the board and running full strength.

Indeed.. It may just come to that after all. I do hope the spirit of the American people is there and strong for rebuilding on the other side of whatever head the craziness comes to. It sure can't run like this indefinitely. The math stopped being absurd and just moved to ...disturbing.... quite some time back I'd say.

reply to post by Agit8dChop

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Liberals hate conservatives.
Dems hate republicans.
White and Blacks hate each other.
The rich think the poor mooched the system to collapse.
The poor think the rich embezzled the system to collapse.

We're even getting into the red state/blue state crap again and thats nonsense on it's face. The county by county of the nation is 90% overwhelmingly red. Although even that isn't a fair statement of the truth of things because to look INTO each county across the entire nation...whether red or blue...MOST of them came up near 50/50 split and the turn of a color is a turn of only a few % of the whole voting population at most. Each side have their exceptions, of course... Some districts went impossibly 99% or 100%. Math is fuzzy in some places, indeed. lol...

The thing is, the above hatreds being played out like a dozen Hatfield and McCoy grudges are 100% insuring that we DO knee jerk reject the ideas or discussion of the other side. Talking AT and not with each other is the norm and EVERY topic is a 100% all or nothing winner take all fight to the bloody finish anymore. It's how our Union ends, not sorts out it's problems.

Meanwhile, those who are feeding the flames and stoking the coals in political office sit and justify their salaries while voting pork and perk at every opportunity. Even reformers are porky pig at the trough in private. They laugh while we yell and they vacation while we tighten the belts and make do.

The anger is misdirected and not just counter productive to the disaster the thread is about, but it's destroying this nation one day at a time with little hope to get back from it anymore.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

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This is just the latest step in making Congress and the Constitution irrelevant, which is by design. This is the ultimate goal of Progressivism.

reply to post by PvtHudson

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You do know that not even Democrats have supported Obama's budgets, right? I have a feeling you know nothing.

Yeah, I don't get it. From what I'm reading, this is the exact same budget that Obama proposed last spring that didn't even get a single vote from anyone. Now, Harry Reid is saying that all of the Democrats are completely supportive of it?

Does anyone know for sure whether or not this is the exact same proposal from last spring?

Here are some details on the original 2013 budget proposal that Obama gave out in February 2012.

en.wikipedia.org...

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