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Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by prevenge
Same people who still believe in the boogey man, I mean Satan....
Faith Groups that Reject the Trinity
• Muslims
• Mormons
• Jehovah's Witnesses
• Christian Science
• Scientology
• Satanism
• Arians
• Armstrongism
• Christadelphians
• The Way International
• Unification Church
"Another characteristic of all non‑Christian cults is either an inadequate view or outright denial of the Holy Trinity. The biblical doctrine of the Trinity, one God in three Persons, is usually attacked as being pagan or satanic in origin.
The Characteristics of Cults
Plural pronouns used of God proving the trinity
A. Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages. Remember the word God (elohim) is also plural every time it is used in the Old Testament. Gen 11:7 also includes a plural verb (confuse) which even further, through grammar reinforces the plural "elohim" and the plural pronoun US.
"Our" Gen 1:26
"Us" Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8
"We" Isa 6:8
B. These are the four passages where God speaks for Himself and uses plural pronouns:
"Then God [plural elohim] said, "Let Us [plural pronoun] make man in Our [plural pronoun] image, according to Our [plural pronoun] likeness" Genesis 1:26
"Then Yahweh God [plural elohim] said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us [plural pronoun], knowing good and evil" Genesis 3:22
"Come, let Us [plural pronoun] go down and there confuse [plural form of balal] their language, so that they will not understand one another’s speech." Genesis 11:7
"Then I heard the voice of the Lord [plural elohim], saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us [plural pronoun]?"" Isaiah 6:8
Trinity Proof Texts
The one thing that all cults and non-Christian religions have in common is, they all deny the deity of Christ. In John 8:24 Jesus said, “Unless you believe that I am (the name God said was His in Exodus 3:15) you will die in your sin.”
People reading this today (2,000 years later) might not understand this, but the people Jesus said it to understood Him perfectly! They wanted to stone Him for claiming to be God (John 10:30-33). In most cases the confusion is based on miss-understanding the Trinity.
The cults say the Trinity is a damnable heresy. For a mortal who has never seen God, to say that the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal God cannot be God in heaven, come to earth as a man, and be everywhere at the same time by His Spirit (a statement beyond his pay-grade) is a greater mystery than the Trinity itself.
There is not a man on earth who can tell you how a brown cow can eat green grass and turn it into white milk!
Cults HATE The Trinity
26Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
In both stories, matter exists when creation begins. Similar to Enuma Elish, Genesis 1 describes God ordering chaos, not creating something out of nothing.
Darkness precedes the creative acts.
In Enuma Elish the symbol of chaos is the goddess Tiamat who personifies the sea. Genesis refers to the “deep.” The Hebrew word is tehom, which is linguistically related to Tiamat.
In both stories, light exists before the creation of the sun, moon, and stars.
In both stories, there is a division of the waters above and below, with a barrier holding back the upper waters.
The sequence of creation is similar, including the division of waters, dry land, luminaries, and humanity, all followed by rest.
biologos.org...
In both stories, matter exists when creation begins. Similar to Enuma Elish, Genesis 1 describes God ordering chaos, not creating something out of nothing.
Darkness precedes the creative acts.
In Enuma Elish the symbol of chaos is the goddess Tiamat who personifies the sea. Genesis refers to the “deep.” The Hebrew word is tehom, which is linguistically related to Tiamat.
In both stories, light exists before the creation of the sun, moon, and stars.
In both stories, there is a division of the waters above and below, with a barrier holding back the upper waters.
The sequence of creation is similar, including the division of waters, dry land, luminaries, and humanity, all followed by rest.
www.religioustolerance.org...
In the Babylonian myth, the serpent, Ningishzida, is a friend to Adapa who helps him in his search for immortality.
In Genesis, the serpent is the enemy of Adam, trying to trick him out of the chance to understand good and evil by developing a moral sense and thus becoming fully human.
The gods of the Babylonians became the ancient Israelites' god.
wiki.answers.com...
Scholars detect many similarities between the Babylonian creation story in the Enuma Elish tablets and the first creation story in Genesis 1:1-2:4a. They say that Babylonian creation myth must have been added to the Book of Genesis by the Priestly Source during the Babylonian Exile.
In both Enuma Elish and Genesis the primordial world prior to creation was formless and empty, with just a watery abyss (Tiamat in the Enuma Elish, tehom, the "deep", a linguistic cognate of tiamat, in Genesis 1:2). The sequence of creation is identical: light, then firmament, dry land, luminaries, and man.
In both, the firmament, conceived as a solid inverted bowl, is created in the midst of the waters to separate the heavens from the earth (Genesis 1:6-7, Enuma Elish 4:137-40). Day and night preceded the creation of the luminous bodies, whose function is to yield light and regulate time.
In Enuma Elish, the gods consulted before creating man, while Genesis has: "Let us make man in our image..." In both accounts, the creation of man was followed by divine rest.
Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by Jim Scott
all those examples are single instances. There is no mention of the word trinity. Or three in one, or the triple god head reference. It is all interpretation.
I have heard Trinitarians refer to the term elohim, or references to elohim as proof of the trinity. Because it was implied.....no, just no.
If God or Jesus wanted us to think of his deity as a Trinitarian god he would have used direct terminology, even in allegory, like St. Patrick did.
You can say mass, no one is convinced beyond a sense of taboo and respect. Not out of a factual and scholarly examination of the countless mistranslations and marginalia errors.
It is just dishonest.
edit on 27-11-2012 by zedVSzardoz because: (no reason given)
"I and the Father are one." John 10:30
"O sing unto the LORD [Jehovah, the existing One] a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory" (Psalm 98:1). "The LORD hath sworn by his right hand, and by the arm of his strength "
"Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him. He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young" Isaiah 40:10-11
"Thou hast with thine arm redeemed thy people" (Psalm 77:15)
Occults attack any and all scripture by declaring "interpretation to be wrong".
This is a very interesting thread so far!!! I fell asleep reading it (wait, that makes it sound boring- no, it was 2AM!) and picked back up when I got my morning coffee.
Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
reply to post by zedVSzardoz
Jesus never spoke of it. All references people make to it are subjective to interpretation and so come from the interpreter.
A very interesting statement, and oh so true. People parrot what they have been taught, and many times are either to lazy or apathetic to research these matters, which are more important than they realize.
The Trinity may have been a "Mystery" that humans can't understand so say the Clergy and those that repeat that mantra of dogma, but not in 2012, there is way to much information out there on it, it is no longer a "mystery".