British Islamists to issue fatwa against shot Pakistani girl Malala

Originally posted by TheLegend
If I had to sum up this whole story in one word, it would be deceit.

There's plenty of times staged situations just like this were used to sell agendas.

Is anyone here really believing this story? I mean, besides the OP (who tends to believe anything from what I've seen).

reply to post by PaperbackWriter

 

Originally posted by PaperbackWriter
She speaks such fluid English for a poor little Pakistani girl.
Of course she was whisked over to England in the aftermath of her "injuries".

Or perhaps the whole thing was staged to start with.
I have seen her photo in the media.
I know what traumatic head injury looks like.
Shot in the head and neck?

I seriously doubt it. The photos are a complete photoshop. fotoforensics.com...

Her head would swell even if she had this so-called craniectomy.

Having heard the MSM media slants regarding the 100+ killed in Gaza vs. 3 in Israel, I have no problem imagining that this is more propaganda. No Islamic jihad has been declared against this 14 year old who's been blogging on MSM sites since she was 11, allegedly.

It seems akin to the story told by the Kuwaiti Ambassador's daughter in the US waxing before Congress about all the suffering she witnessed concerning incubator babies being dashed to the concrete.
A story sent to sell that war.

It is pretty low the way these girls are being used to sell a lie also.

Best post in this topic and it only has 3 stars.

Screw you mate. I have been to the Stan several times I seen what goes on, you CLEARLY haven't but act like you are an authority. Shame on you and the parents who spawned you

Simple solution dont let them back into the UK. They can do what they want in Afghanistan for all i care. Im sure some British squaddies or American G.Is will sort there little party right out!

Sad sharia law following Muslim extremists IMHO.

Britain lost ,not by the threats of France,Spain, Germany ect ..but by the internal traitors funded by Bolsheviks from the years 1937 to 1982 approx
paid off british traitors...the lowest of the lowest.

reply to post by Hesperornis


You know exactly the point I was making.

It's quite revelaing that you yet again choose to argue semantics rather than address the issues I raised.

Other than deliberately attempting to shrug off and trivialise the issuing of a fatwa I fail to see exactly what point you are trying to make.

Originally posted by Freeborn
You know exactly the point I was making.

you haven't made one.

Originally posted by Freeborn
It's quite revelaing that you yet again choose to argue semantics rather than address the issues I raised.

You didn't raise any issues, but if you'd like here we go:

Originally posted by Freeborn
So what exactly are the details of this fatwa that has been issued against a schoolgirl whose only crime appears to have been a desire for an education?

As previously stated, the fatwa has not yet been issued, so to comment on its contents is premature at best, and foolishness at worst. However from the article in the OP:

"Nobody is saying we are going to get out our swords and go and look for Malala... The point is a wider issue: it is about the American and Pakistani involvement in maintaining the British and American interests ...," Choudary told Reuters.

"Malala is one of the issues we are going to be addressing because she is being used as a propaganda tool by the enemies of Muslims to say: 'Look, Muslims don't believe in education' which is absurd."

In short, it seems they're going the conspiracy theory route, although let's actually wait for the Fatwa and see what it says so then we can comment on it specifically eh?

Originally posted by Freeborn
The very fact that Anjem Choudray and his supporters see the need to issue a fatwa seem pretty much self-evident that they support the attempt on her life carried out by The Taliban and their subsequent declaration of their intent to try to kill her again.

Let's wait for the fatwa and see what it says.

There is a self-proclaimed "scholar" of Islam named Zakir Naik. Some scholars claim he is not following "True Islam" (their version) so they issued a fatwa on him that simply stated he does not follow Islam correctly and should not be listened to (source: darulifta-deoband.org... ).

So again, what I'm saying is you don't seem to understand what a fatwa is (simply a religious ruling, which can be on any topic) AND you seem to want to jump the gun and attack the fatwa before it's even been issued (akin to attacking a book without ever reading any of it).

Originally posted by Freeborn
But we'll conveniently just ignore that and argue semantics about what constitutes a fatwa or dismiss it as 'whacky'?

That's not what I wrote. I wrote that the types of fatwa's that generally are considered 'newsworthy' by MSM are the crazy ones (ie. soliciations for murder) or the "whacky" ones (eg. Women shouldn't sit on chairs because evil spirits can enter them ).

Originally posted by Freeborn
Other than deliberately attempting to shrug off and trivialise the issuing of a fatwa I fail to see exactly what point you are trying to make.

No, I'm trying to clarify what a fatwa actually IS, because as I stated, many, including yourself, don't seem to get it, or you are being deliberately obtuse.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
Britain lost ,not by the threats of France,Spain, Germany ect ..but by the internal traitors funded by Bolsheviks from the years 1937 to 1982 approx
paid off british traitors...the lowest of the lowest.

I don't think you really know what Bolshevik means.

If we'd have had a secret Bolshevik revolution and the British government have been sold out by British Bolshevik traitors, then why have the majority of elections between 1937 and 1982 been held by Tories? And why are each Tory government getting more and more right wing?

Why have we seen a slow and steady move towards anything other than Marxist or Bolshevik policies? Why then, even under the New Labour government (which many Tories laughably claim was a 'left wing' government), have we seen a further creep towards the privatisation of the state? The PFI-based policies beloved of supposedly 'lefty' New Labour were the opposite of Bolshevism. As well as no means of production, why do we have no state owned utilities? Why are the police being privatised? Why is the national health service being sold off slice by slice? How is any of this Bolshevism?

We've seen a political landscape dominated by a middle-class rather than a working class for decades, to the extent that the working classes are now largely disenfranchised. We've seen a media war against unions who do speak for working classes; a media war that's primarily a Londoncentric middle-class? We've seen 'production' not only wrested out of the hands of the British working class but taken abroad and the jobs denied them. How is that Bolshevism?

Did the British government ever align with Russia or did they align with America, the antithesis of Bolshevism? When was the last war Britain fought alongside Russia? How many have Britain fought alongside America? What's British trade and diplomacy like with Russia compared to that with America's? Do our foreign policies generally align with America's or Russia's?

Laughable. Just laughable.

Originally posted by Octoneo
Islam teaches tolerance above all else

Considering all the violence in Islam ... I'm not buying that at all.
The violence .. and this is also why I'm not buying your statement ...
Telling lies is approved of in Islam

Originally posted by Dhimmie
Islam is a pathetic excuse for a life, only scum can attracted to such a lifestyle of misogyny. After 15 years in muslims countries and being an English guy myself I feel I can say **** islam

The Christian Church doesn't have a great reputation for equality between the sexes.

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church. . . ."
(Ephesians 5:22–23)

Lots of stuff about the 'place' of women in the Bible. Similarly, lots of women get, quite rightly, narked about the concepts of 'chattel' and 'patriarchy' within Christian cultures.

It wasn't a surprise to see the Church knock back women bishops this week.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Considering all the violence in Islam ... I'm not buying that at all.

You talk about violence in islam, but all you can bring are ahadith which recount events that happened during the beginnings of Islam (during wartime might I add) and they are also Sunni ahadith. Taqqiya is not in Quran.

Can you please point us to scholars (Sunni ofc) who say that these ahadith are for all times (not just wartime) and they are also fard?

reply to post by Hesperornis
reply to post by Freeborn

A point to be made on this discussion:
Anjem Choudry has in no authority to be making fatwas. As has been mentioned before, he has no formal training at all in Islamic jurisprudence: he studied law from the University of Southampton to become a solicitor (and no, not specialising in any form of "Islamic law").

Another point to be made on this discussion: Anjem Choudry knows full well what the majority of the western world thinks "fatwa" means, and he is using that to his advantage in his quest to drum up controversy. He's used this tactic before, when he launched a campaign for a "Fatwa against Theresa May", with the caveat tucked far away in some corner of his website that "Fatwa doesn't mean to put a hit out on someone".

Only in the Uk will we tolerate this crap. Anywhere else these people would be deported but no good old Britain turns a blind eye constantly for fear of retaliation by the POTB in the US. We are nothing but US puppets.

Try living in Bradford and see how liberal your views are then. Try having to put up with the Police daring not to touch muslims for fear of them screaming the race card constantly. Muslims in Bradford have already said quite loudly that Bradford will be a Sharia State in the not too distant future. There are no go areas for whites but apparently thats ok, be a different story if it was the other way around. Muslims in Bradford have said that they are not English and that Pakistan and Islam come first and if there was a war they would fight on Pakistan's side not the British. This all comes from teenage 3rd generation Pakistanis.

So much for progress and 21st century enlightement

Originally posted by phyllida
Only in the Uk will we tolerate this crap. Anywhere else these people would be deported but no good old Britain turns a blind eye constantly for fear of retaliation by the POTB in the US. We are nothing but US puppets.

...

Try living in Bradford and see how liberal your views are then.

I have an Oldham postcode and only live a couple of miles from Rochdale which has seen a lot of Muslim 'rape gang' stuff on here and in the mainstream media. Take a read through my posts and see how left wing and liberal I am.

Your post is pretty confused. On the one hand we're in thrall to the most right wing government in the Western world (America) and adopting American style policies but at the same time you have a problem with left wing socially liberal views. What's the problem? Are we too right wing or too left wing?

reply to post by Hesperornis


Of course I understand exactly what a fatwa is and what purposes they serve within the various forms of Islam.

I am also more than aware that no fatwa has been issued yet but bearing in mind Anjem Choudary's personal beliefs and history and his quotes on this specific issue I'd suggest that he's not seeking a fatwa that will offer any real support of this girl and / or condemnation of The Taliban for trying to kill her.

And if these 'whacky' fatwa's didn't happen in the first place or extremists like Choudray didn't go about quoting them at every opportunity then the media wouldn't be able to focus on them would they?
Or would you prefer that MSM just conveniently ignored them?

If this fatwa says something along the lines that every child, regardless of sex, is entitled to an education and The Taliban were unequivocally wrong in trying to kill her then I will quite gladly apologise and openly admit that I was wrong.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


To be quite honest I've no idea what we are in this country. We just seem to follow the leader as it were. We've been drip fed liberal bollocks for years until we are so full of guilt and apathy that we permit and allow just about anything with only a deep sigh.

The government in this country seem to take far more notice of what other countries think of us for some reason I'm not privy to, and rarely act. Always struck me as strange how France/Germany etc can get away with what they do with regards to immigration but good old England nahhhh we are racist bigots blah blah blah when in fact we are (or at least were) one of the most tolerant countries in the world. Regardless of what other countries think of us, regardless of how allegedly "racist" and what dreadful people we are, there are still plenty willing to walk over broken glass through half a dozen other countries just to get to this one

I can only pass opinion on what I actually know about or have experienced. I haven't had a tv or read a newspaper in over 10yrs so it is my belief that my opinions etc are based on fact and not biased reporting or at least that's what I work towards.

Originally posted by Freeborn
Of course I understand exactly what a fatwa is and what purposes they serve within the various forms of Islam.

So you *are* being deliberately obtuse? Thank you.

Originally posted by Freeborn
I am also more than aware that no fatwa has been issued yet but bearing in mind Anjem Choudary's personal beliefs and history and his quotes on this specific issue I'd suggest that he's not seeking a fatwa that will offer any real support of this girl and / or condemnation of The Taliban for trying to kill her.

Let's wait and see, and if any fatwa should eventuate then we can discuss it on its merits and faults.

Originally posted by Freeborn
And if these 'whacky' fatwa's didn't happen in the first place or extremists like Choudray didn't go about quoting them at every opportunity then the media wouldn't be able to focus on them would they?
Or would you prefer that MSM just conveniently ignored them?

The example fatwa's I gave, as well as some other famous/whacky ones (ie. Salman Rushdie) are not 'quoted at every opportunity' by extremists; most of them are brought to our attention by such places as memri tv and such.

Actually come to think of it, I don't recall any 'extremist' (terrorist, extremist, fundamentalist whatever) 'quoting' a fatwa, and I've trawled though heaps of such content. Those types usually quote the Quran or ahadith, but not fatwas, because they are only authoritative to those who accept the authority of the issuer, however Quran is authoritative to all Muslims and the ahadith are authoratative to those in that particular sect.

Originally posted by Freeborn
If this fatwa says something along the lines that every child, regardless of sex, is entitled to an education and The Taliban were unequivocally wrong in trying to kill her then I will quite gladly apologise and openly admit that I was wrong.

You are wrong to strawman the fatwa that hasn't even been issued yet. As I have been saying all along, let's see it first, then we can comment on specifics. You were wrong to demand of me exact details of a fatwa that has not yet been issued. Now you are backpedalling.

Good day.

Originally posted by phyllida
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

To be quite honest I've no idea what we are in this country. We just seem to follow the leader as it were. We've been drip fed liberal bollocks for years until we are so full of guilt and apathy that we permit and allow just about anything with only a deep sigh.

The government in this country seem to take far more notice of what other countries think of us for some reason I'm not privy to, and rarely act. Always struck me as strange how France/Germany etc can get away with what they do with regards to immigration but good old England nahhhh we are racist bigots blah blah blah when in fact we are (or at least were) one of the most tolerant countries in the world. Regardless of what other countries think of us, regardless of how allegedly "racist" and what dreadful people we are, there are still plenty willing to walk over broken glass through half a dozen other countries just to get to this one

I can only pass opinion on what I actually know about or have experienced. I haven't had a tv or read a newspaper in over 10yrs so it is my belief that my opinions etc are based on fact and not biased reporting or at least that's what I work towards.

edit on 22-11-2012 by phyllida because: missed a bit!

If you had have read a newspaper or watched TV in the last 10 years, then you've have noticed that the vast, overwhelming majority of media in Britain is right wing. Even the so-called lefty Auntie Beeb is right wing in many ways (all it's economic coverage, for example, which paves the way for the monetary need for changes to the state &c). If there is any propaganda happening, it's predominantly right wing: cf this with rise in attacks on those with mental and physical impairments and the parallel campaign in the media regarding 'benefit scroungers'. Whilst it can be argued that it's socially liberal, this is very much through a middle-class, London-centric form of social liberalism.

I'm pro-European (if only because the alternative for a country that won't or can't go it alone, is further alignment with the USA, and that's something you don't seem keen on yourself) but a lot of people like me see that the current agreements (many brought about by Tory governments) don't do Britain any favours.

I would like to see immigration reduced too, mainly because of my left wing beliefs. The right wing are very canny with their foreigners/immigration narrative. On the one hand they've traditionally played to the racist peanut gallery (they campaigned with 'if you want a 'n-word' for a neighbour, vote Labour' in the 60s), but on the other, their bread and butter, the business community can't get enough of those pesky foreigners and immigrants. The first people to complain about suggested immigration cap to Vince Cable were the business community. Business wants more immigration as it drives down wages through a desperate labour market. Immigration in this country is asymmetrical: it impacts the poorest of the working classes far more than any other demographic through strain on housing, jobs, services and so on.

However, immigration is an especially difficult one for Britain. If it wasn't because of obligations owed to the Empire and the Commonwealth countries, where an economic ruling class raped other countries, we'd not have to open the doors to anyone. It's worth reminding people that during the days of the Empire, the bulk of the British population were suffering under a right wing fantasy scenario: working class had no political voice, inhuman working conditions (pay, factory hours, mining conditions, phossy jaw &c) and existed on the very fringes of civilised society. The working classes paid for the Empire the first time round, and now the working classes are having to pay again through the obligations of the Empire. This all sounds like a right wing dream 'solution' to me; not some liberal, left wing "bollocks".

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Well to be frank I'm one of those disabled benefit scroungers and yes I'd no idea anything was happening until it happened to me. I was a career minded middle working class solicitor then I got ill. Then things changed. I lost my house my job and my husband. I got little or no treatment from the NHS passed from pillar to post for years, barely enough money to actually feed myself and 2 children to the point where I even had to go to the local Church for help! And this was the 21st Century? I was half expecting the DSS to tell me to put the children up a chimney to make ends meet! My life changed a lot as did my mindset. Like I said through experience I was forced to change opinions/views etc after spending the majority of my life thinking all was well and Governments and Support was always there for us the people.

I now realise that whenever there is an unpopular or radical law/bill they want to pass, they will first create a climate of fear/hate so by the time the Bill is read we are all so grateful for our Governments concern and care. This is exactly what they have done with the Benefits. Now I don't doubt for a moment there are scrounging gits on Social Security or whatever they call it, but to consistently target the easy prey of genuinely disabled people is pretty low and its so rare those stories get into the news I'm sure as they aren't as scandalous or scaremongering as the "Chav on £3000 a week benefit fraud" headlines

I'm not right wing I'm not left wing I just have beliefs...I'm Phyllida Wing ...you cannot force cultures to mix and integrate..not all cultures can or want to not all cultures are compatible as we are seeing now and you can't legislate away the differences. I simply feel extremely strongly that when British born and bred Muslims state they will fight for Pakistan/Afghanistan or any other muslim country rather than the country they were born in, and are allowed to speak out against the country that has given them a far far better life than the illusionary Islamic countries they are so willing to fight for, that the indigenous population should have the right and the balls to speak out and say "hey hang on you are British not Pakistani Afghani Kurdish or whatever if you don't like it here and think we're all a bunch of infidels you'd rather slaughter then please leave". I see nothing wrong in that whatsoever. One of the problems is that our national pride has been taken away from us slowly over the years and we've been made out to be the bad buggers and now we have to pay. I have Sikh friends who agree too so its not colour or one sided. The muslims for the most part hate us and are taught to hate us but we aren't allowed to hate back, even if we wanted to which I'm sure a lot don't want to! They just want things to be fair

Hey ho all things change for the good they say

reply to post by Hesperornis

So you *are* being deliberately obtuse? Thank you.

Not at all, I just disagree with your interpretation and assessment of things.

Let's wait and see, and if any fatwa should eventuate then we can discuss it on its merits and faults.

Ok.

The example fatwa's I gave, as well as some other famous/whacky ones (ie. Salman Rushdie) are not 'quoted at every opportunity' by extremists; most of them are brought to our attention by such places as memri tv and such.

Not sure about that - do you honestly believe that the fatwa issued by Ayatollah Khomeini against Salman Rushdie had no part in the beating and stabbing of his Italian translator, the shooting of his Norwegian publisher, the murder of his Japanese translator or the bombing that killed 37 people demonstrating against his Turkish translator?

You are wrong to strawman the fatwa that hasn't even been issued yet.

Possibly - but as I said previously, given Choudray's history, personal beliefs and his comments on this subject it's more than reasonable to assume the nature of the fatwa that he is seeking - if you doubt that then you are more trusting and perhaps a tad more naive than I'd expect of a person of your knowledge and experience.

You were wrong to demand of me exact details of a fatwa that has not yet been issued.

Not at all.
I didn't demand anything, I asked a question - ok, the fatwa may not have been issued yet but as I have explained, in my irrelevant opinion, I think it's fair to assume the nature of the fatwa that Choudray is seeking.

Now you are backpedalling.

Again, not at all - I'm not that arrogant that I have any opinion that is so firmly set in stone that I refuse to consider other viewpoints etc - you may mistake or call that, or offering further explanations, 'backpedalling' but I prefer to consider it an effort to provide clarity of a viewpoint and at least some sort of effort towards having an open mind.

reply to post by babloyi


You miss understood my post, Muslim men are almost as bad as arabs in the way they treat women. Nothing to do with countries, more to do with attitudes in the 21st century.

reply to post by phyllida


I feel the heat of your angst on this issue, but I think it is fair to say that although there clearly ARE people who are muslim and think the way you describe, that they do not account for the majority. Also, I do not believe for one solitary moment that you cannot see plainly, why it is important for us Brits to avoid hate on the basis of religion, creed, colour, or perceived racial grounds.

We are currently at war with an organisation which has twisted the words of a religious document, in order to instigate a war on our culture, our freedoms. This we are told, every time a military figure or politician has to justify certain actions to the people. If this is true, then the answer is not to meet hate with hate, because every time that has happened, there has just been chaos, death, the damnation of nations, and an end to the peace and happiness of everyone concerned. If we are to fight this war as a nation, then the part we at home must do, is remember how to love our fellow human beings, despite thier flaws.

Obviously, people who ARE genuinely dangerous ought to be swiftly dealt with by the authorities, but aiming hatred at a whole demographic, IN CASE they happen to be the boogeymen that one might fear them to be, is no better than simple religious racism, and will only serve to further the aims of the enemies of our nation. This is clear to me, and I cannot believe that it is any less clear to you.