To reply to the post above, when I say true morality, what i mean by this is what
society agrees on as morality, there are basic things we as humans mostly
agree on, things that can be seen as cut and dry in a sense, if you murder
someone just because you wanted to murder them, most everyone would
say you are wrong for doing so.
For society to exist, since we as humans live in groups by our very nature,
then some rules must obviously apply, the idea in very simplistic terms
comes down to "you leave me alone, I leave you alone" while that's a huge
oversimplification obviously, i believe it is actually the basis for morality. Or it could
be said this way: "I would really hate to be killed by someone, so i think
we need laws that protect people from that danger, consequences for
your actions should be here in the real world and not in some proposed
afterlife that cant even be proven to exist".
The reason I say it must be that way is that the idea of someone else
being able to forgive you for something they were not even involved in
is a shifting of blame, it gives them the idea that they are forgiven no
matter what and they don't have to apologize or make recompense to
the actual person they have wronged.
To address the other question, I will start off by saying i should have been
more clear by what i meant in my first post, what i was trying to point
out is that by christian standards they cant even decide whether or not
abortion is immoral or moral according to the book the say is the basis
for their morality, but they aren't claiming that, they are flat out saying its
immoral according to their book, this to me all goes back to the fact that
they cant simply admit when they are unsure because religion is all about
being the "right" religion and their gods word is infallible.
So to say your a christian who believes that abortion is OK or to say that
your a christian that believes abortion is not OK is literally pointing out
that their morality is human based and not based on the book they claim
it to be based on. because the book itself is immoral and contradictory.
If all they want to do is justify their belief then they can do that with the
bible all day long, the huge issue it creates is that they don't just want
to justify their belief they want us all to say they are right and agree
even when its obvious they are simply spinning it the way they wish it
the reason i pointed it out the way i did is this isn't even really an argument
about abortion, to me its truly a morality argument, the actual answer to abortion
is that sometimes it is moral other times it is not moral, so sometimes
the christians who believe its ok are right and sometimes the others are
right, however they will never say that, they both claim to be right 100% of the
If we were to use that logic in everyday life then when they execute a prisoner
or a soldier in a war kills someone, then they are just as guilty of murder
as the man who simply did it because he wanted to and not to save his
life or punish someone who we believe to be so dangerous they cant
be left as a part of society, those are simply examples but i believe they
are good ones to consider, using this idea of absolute morality that
doesn't even exist in the bible is the actual problem. Simply being
honest about things makes much of this problem go away, tell
the truth when the answer is: well i honestly don't know, it should
be up to the person and not up to a religion.
I am going to add my personal opinion here, the problem, i think anyway,
with abortion itself is that it does indeed go against what most people
agree is morality, the termination of a possible life, one that has already
been fertilized, to me is wrong unless there is ample reason to do so.
the answer isn't cut and dry to me and obviously it isn't cut and dry to
religion either so the irony is that though we travel different roads we
end up at a slightly similar destination anyway. The key difference being
that i am willing to admit and if presented with enough evidence i can
change my view on things without contradicting my morality because
my morality changes with well thought out reason and evidence.
Religious morality is time and again very hard to change because
they continue down this path of: we have to be right or we suffer forever.
I'm sorry i didn't answer the actual question you posited, No i do not agree
that Christianity as a whole accepts abortion as OK, they fall on both sides
of the issue because they use the same morality the rest of us do, whether
they admit that or not.
A good example for this is: If god were to come to us all today and say "Murder
is now ok, kill all you like" would it be moral to murder? I say no it would not.
and i believe you would be hard pressed to find huge numbers of christians
who would say yes to that.
My parents don't agree with abortion in any way shape or form, they believe
it is wrong no matter what as they say it violates the thou shalt not kill
clause of the bible. so them being part of the christian religion shows that
as a whole christians do not agree on what the book says or they cherry
pick what they want from the book.
edit on 12-11-2012 by bloodreviara because: to add