Originally posted by paraphi
Well, RT is the mouthpiece of the Russian government. No surprise then that the Russian role and involvement in the region and particularly in Iran has been covered up.

In the Cold War the US supported Iraq in the Iran-Iraq war. So did the Russians. Is there a reason why the Iraqi military was composed almost entirely of Russian/Soviet kit? Are people's memories so fickle and why do people think RT is factual?

Russia have an agenda to push and RT is their mouthpiece.

Regards

Yes but as I've said before, this is the irony of such videos.

Yes, RT is following an agenda.

BUT, they don't exactly have to stray too far from the truth to expose the USA (and Britain) for what they have done and still do in the middle east!

When was the last time your heard propaganda against Russia in the western MSM? The last piece of news about Russia I heard from MSM sources was some punk band going to prison, but nothing in terms of geopolitical or international politics. There is a very good reason for that IMO, namely Russia has FAR more dirt on America than the other way around.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Slow down, are you saying the CIA backed regime change of 1953 never took place?

I'm saying that the Shah was reinstalled during the regime change in 1953. The Iranian apologists always leave out the fact that the Shah was there first before he was deposed and well before "Operation Ajax" which is as you put it a "Regime change"

You posted a picture of the Shah, but I could post a picture an out of context picture of I don't know, Rumsfeld with Saddam? Or maybe the former British PM Chamberlain with Adolf Hitler himself,

That's the Shah with {Mohammad Mosaddegh} kissing his hand who he disposed years later with Western support

Are you denying the British and Americans orchestrated regime change in Iran in 1953?

No, not denying just filling in the rest of the story.
They reinstalled the Shah.

a picture taken out of context is meaningless to your argument.

So is trying to debate a topic you obviously have no clue about.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Yes, RT is following an agenda.

BUT, they don't exactly have to stray too far from the truth to expose the USA (and Britain) for what they have done and still do in the middle east!

Well at least you'll admit that they...

A.) Have an Agenda

and

B.) They stray from telling the truth. How much is anybody's guess.

When was the last time your heard propaganda against Russia in the western MSM? The last piece of news about Russia I heard from MSM sources was some punk band going to prison, but nothing in terms of geopolitical or international politics. There is a very good reason for that IMO, namely Russia has FAR more dirt on America than the other way around.

Mainly because the Western media is not obsessed about Russia as much as Russia is perversely obsessed with the US.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Slow down, are you saying the CIA backed regime change of 1953 never took place?

I'm saying that the Shah was reinstalled during the regime change in 1953. The Iranian apologists always leave out the fact that the Shah was there first before he was deposed and well before "Operation Ajax" which is as you put it a "Regime change"

You posted a picture of the Shah, but I could post a picture an out of context picture of I don't know, Rumsfeld with Saddam? Or maybe the former British PM Chamberlain with Adolf Hitler himself,

That's the Shah with {Mohammad Mosaddegh} kissing his hand who he disposed years later with Western support

Are you denying the British and Americans orchestrated regime change in Iran in 1953?

No, not denying just filling in the rest of the story.
They reinstalled the Shah.

a picture taken out of context is meaningless to your argument.

So is trying to debate a topic you obviously have no clue about.

I have no clue about it...OK , so you can educate me then.

So you acknowledge the CIA was behind the regime change I mean reinstallation of the Shah.

So, they organised a coup in 1953 to reimpose the Shah. We both agree.

Now, the question is why? Why did they organise a coup to reimpose the Shah? Something to do? Where they bored? Or was it to do with oil deals as the Shah would do whatever they wanted as long as he received financial aid, similar to Mubarak in Egypt?

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Now, the question is why? Why did they organise a coup to reimpose the Shah? Something to do? Where they bored? Or was it to do with oil deals as the Shah would do whatever they wanted as long as he received financial aid, similar to Mubarak in Egypt?

Then as now the modern World's life blood is oil.

Today it's mostly for profit, but back then it was for profit and strategic importance. The Cold War between the West and Eastern Bloc powers was just starting and red hot. The Western powers were afraid that the Soviets would either invade Iran from the North or bring them into their sphere of influence threatening the West's oil supply or the other Western Allie in the region Saudi Arabia.

The West had an Allie in Iran with the Shah and reinstalled him to bring Iran back under Western influence. {Operation Ajax} Note, Soon after, the Soviet got involved over in Iraq. Research Iraq in the 50s and the rise of the Ba'ath Party beforehand and later supported and backed Saddam Hussein. Which years later the West brought Iraq into Western influence after the Iranian revolution back in the 1979. {To overthrow the Shah}

Frustrated over loosing Iraq and not being too friendly with the theocracy in Iran the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to gain a foot hold and influence in the Gulf Region in the 80s. In the end the Soviets found themselves at the end of the Cold War only had Syria in their back pocket.

Seems familiar eh?

Just the fact that the USA/England had their hand in manipulating the leader of a country would be enough to cause a war. I am surprised it has not happened yet.... at least openly

If iran had done the same to the USA we would still be extremely pissed off. LOok at pearl harbor we nuked the crap out of them in retaliation for sinking some boats. Imagine if they had manipulated the white house. Iran would just be a huge crater right now.

The problem is that the USA was involved in such a deal in the first place. It does not matter what he rest of the story is. That act alone is enough to put someone on the offensive and to put the USA in a bad light.

i really do not give a crap except i just don't look at my country with pink colored glasses nor should we look at it with pink colored glasses. The USA does some pretty crappy things to stay in power. which is fine i just do not like to be lied about it and believe we fart sunshine and rainbows.

The lies that really bother me are the ones where the troops and the population are told a conflict is about spreading democracy and liberating people from a dictatorship... when the reality it that it is about resources and power. Which is fine but the people and troops get the moral victory and the special interests get the wealth that they then sell to us at a mark up. It is screwed up since it was our troops fighting and dieing to get that wealth. The people and the troops should be the ones to directly benefit from that without a proxy. Since they are the ones who risk most to get it.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
Now, the question is why? Why did they organise a coup to reimpose the Shah? Something to do? Where they bored? Or was it to do with oil deals as the Shah would do whatever they wanted as long as he received financial aid, similar to Mubarak in Egypt?

Then as now the modern World's life blood is oil.

Today it's mostly for profit, but back then it was for profit and strategic importance. The Cold War between the West and Eastern Bloc powers was just starting and red hot. The Western powers were afraid that the Soviets would either invade Iran from the North or bring them into their sphere of influence threatening the West's oil supply or the other Western Allie in the region Saudi Arabia.

The West had an Allie in Iran with the Shah and reinstalled him to bring Iran back under Western influence. {Operation Ajax} Note, Soon after, the Soviet backed Saddam Hussein over in Iraq. Research Iraq in the 50s and the rise of the Ba'ath Party beforehand. Which years later the West brought Iraq into Western influence after the Iranian revolution back in the 1979. {To overthrow the Shah}

Then the Soviets invaded Afghanistan to gain a foot hold and influence in the Gulf Region in the 80s. Then the Soviets near the end of the Cold War only had Syria in their back pocket.

Seems familiar eh?

edit on 11-11-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

I don't disagree with anything you have said in that post because contrary to your belief, I do know my history.

The covert operations involving the CIA and British intelligence (ie the coup of 1953) was ultimately over control- it had strategic importance given the amount of oil in Iran.

Now, what is the difference today? I know you will be aware of the PNAC, America at the beginning of the 21st century was the sole super power, foreign policy for this century has been to ensure America has influence and control over as many geopolitcally important places as possible.

You've acknowledged the 'whys' back during the cold war, Russia was equally involved, surely you can acknowledge the conflicts in the region now are over the same control over the oil and resources?

Yet what is clear is that to sell this foreign policy, they have to lie about WMD and evil dictators etc. That is where you come in to offer balance and remind us this isn't just a one way conflict , although IMO America and her allies have been doing a lot more than Russia in the past couple of decades!

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
You've acknowledged the 'whys' back during the cold war, Russia was equally involved, surely you can acknowledge the conflicts in the region now are over the same control over the oil and resources?

Of course it is.
The only difference being is that now Iran wants the bomb. They have repeatedly threatened to close the Straits, They have armed and supported numerous covert groups and activities that have engaged and attacked many of their neighbors.

Yet what is clear is that to sell this foreign policy, they have to lie about WMD and evil dictators etc.

I'm not going to defend Bush and Co. I've been against the Iraqi war from the start and FYI my son made the choice to join and fight in Iraq. So, Yes, I completely understand the situation first hand.

That is where you come in to offer balance and remind us this isn't just a one way conflict , although IMO America and her allies have been doing a lot more than Russia in the past couple of decades!

Russia still has delusions of being a Super power. The fact is that Russia's neighbors know Russia all too well. What often gets ignored is the very real history of Iranian and Syrian covert activities over the past few decades. Which have killed innocent people of all walks of life.

This is an ugly story.

All sides have blood on their hands not just the US, UK and Israel but Russia, Iran, Iraq and Syria as well. The problem is that nobody wants to talk about the whole truth if it doesn't fit into their particular paradigm.

Or acknowledge a country with an Agenda using their State sponsored media outlet RT that openly conveys a biased truncated version of the events, history, context and facts.


Notice how RT completely left out the Soviet's part and contributions in the mess with their video presentation?

Wow, I wonder what her screenname is here on ATS. Don't want to mess with her, she'll tear me a new .....can't say that

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
You've acknowledged the 'whys' back during the cold war, Russia was equally involved, surely you can acknowledge the conflicts in the region now are over the same control over the oil and resources?

Of course it is.
The only difference being is that now Iran wants the bomb. They have repeatedly threatened to close the Straits, They have armed and supported numerous covert groups and activities that have engaged and attacked many of their neighbors.

Yet what is clear is that to sell this foreign policy, they have to lie about WMD and evil dictators etc.

I'm not going to defend Bush and Co. I've been against the Iraqi war from the start and FYI my son made the choice to join and fight in Iraq. So, Yes, I completely understand the situation first hand.

That is where you come in to offer balance and remind us this isn't just a one way conflict , although IMO America and her allies have been doing a lot more than Russia in the past couple of decades!

Russia still has delusions of being a Super power. The fact is that Russia's neighbors know Russia all too well. What often get;s ignored is the very real history or Iranian and Syrian cover activities over the past few decades. Which have killed innocent people of all walks of life.

This is an ugly story.

All sides have blood on their hands not just the US, UK and Israel but Russia, Iran, Iraq and Syria as well. The problem is that nobody wants to talk about the whole truth if it doesn't fit into their particular paradigm.

Or acknowledge a country with an Agenda using their State sponsored media outlet RT that openly conveys a biased truncated version of the events, history, context and facts.


Notice how RT completely left out the Soviet's part and contributions in the mess with their video presentation?

edit on 11-11-2012 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

I agree it is a very ugly story but would Iran and Syria be involved with supporting our enemies if we weren't trying to control their resources etc?

What beef would Syria or Iran have with America or Britain if from the very beginning we bought oil at fair prices rather than trying to control it and get it cheap?

I don't like admitting my country and America are the aggressors, but IMO all the middle east countries and the people especially, are victims of imperialism or variations of that. Iran or Syria cannot outright challenge a military power, hence we have this ever escalating covert war which is tragic but I can't shake the feeling that if America and her allies left the region and left Iran and Syria alone, then that would be the first step in stopping the trouble. But we both know, as we see in Syria, they will not stop until regime change has been implemented, seemingly at any cost to the Syrian and Iranian civilian population.

I agree with a lot of what you say, RT clearly has an agenda, I was aware of that posting the video- it is propaganda but it doesn't change the fact that all this is occuring because America is trying to scoop up as much control as possible before China or Russia emerge as a genuine threat to their hegemony.

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
When was the last time your heard propaganda against Russia in the western MSM? The last piece of news about Russia I heard from MSM sources was some punk band going to prison, but nothing in terms of geopolitical or international politics. There is a very good reason for that IMO, namely Russia has FAR more dirt on America than the other way around.

Yeah we don't have very much 'dirt' on the folks who brought us Biopreparat and Akt-Mer. It's because they are all so nice. Litvinenko was always saying how great Putin was. Haven't heard from him in a while though.

The Western media always stays away from Russia stories, like the Illegals only made headlines for years afterwards. Want to see a Russian agent with her tits out? You're right on the international politics thing too, did you know that Russia backs Assad? Most people don't because it's never mentioned in the press.

Seriously though wtf are you talking about.

I believe the problem with American/UK mentality is,because of decades of abusive and aggressive policies against Iran,they think Iranians are bound to get them and sooner or later they will nuke them off the map!...But in reality people forgive and try to forget.You don't see Japanese,Korean,Iraqis,Afghans,Libyans,Egyptian,Vietnamese,Native Americans,Syrians,Soudanese,Cubans,Venesuelans,Canadians,Russians,Chinese and bunch of other people wanting to nuke US, and they all have been abused and damaged by US/UK,one way or another....This is what happens when a bully retires...Nightmares ,fears, guilt and eventually reality kicks in and total insanity comes to get you...So enjoy the ride and just try to be cool...Enough wrong is been done...Don't do something that we all regret for the centuries to come........Peace.

Iraq transferred it's WMD stockpile to Syria; hence, Syria has chemical weapons....which they got from Saddam. Which Saddam used in his war against Iran.

Syria also insinuated - obviously to the Israelis - that it wouldn't use it on civilians fighting against the government, but against 'aggressive neighbors'.

And BTW, Russia Today can't be judged anymore 'impartial' than the western media. It has it's own agenda.

For one, Russia still supports the murderous Assad regime in Syria. And two, I've noticed that PressTV and Russia today pander to conspiracy theorists, which they know represents a '5th column' of sorts, which they can help prop up.

Originally posted by Soshh

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
When was the last time your heard propaganda against Russia in the western MSM? The last piece of news about Russia I heard from MSM sources was some punk band going to prison, but nothing in terms of geopolitical or international politics. There is a very good reason for that IMO, namely Russia has FAR more dirt on America than the other way around.

Yeah we don't have very much 'dirt' on the folks who brought us Biopreparat and Akt-Mer. It's because they are all so nice. Litvinenko was always saying how great Putin was. Haven't heard from him in a while though.

The Western media always stays away from Russia stories, like the Illegals only made headlines for years afterwards. Want to see a Russian agent with her tits out? You're right on the international politics thing too, did you know that Russia backs Assad? Most people don't because it's never mentioned in the press.

Seriously though wtf are you talking about.

Of course I know Russia backs Assad and IMO I think Russia should send their army into Syria and remove the 'rebels'.

If Russia was doing this to one of our allies (let's say Israel) WW3 would already be on!

Originally posted by Soshh

Originally posted by Wonderer2012
When was the last time your heard propaganda against Russia in the western MSM? The last piece of news about Russia I heard from MSM sources was some punk band going to prison, but nothing in terms of geopolitical or international politics. There is a very good reason for that IMO, namely Russia has FAR more dirt on America than the other way around.

Yeah we don't have very much 'dirt' on the folks who brought us Biopreparat and Akt-Mer. It's because they are all so nice. Litvinenko was always saying how great Putin was. Haven't heard from him in a while though.

The Western media always stays away from Russia stories, like the Illegals only made headlines for years afterwards. Want to see a Russian agent with her tits out? You're right on the international politics thing too, did you know that Russia backs Assad? Most people don't because it's never mentioned in the press.

Seriously though wtf are you talking about.

You do realise how contradictory your post is right?

My point is you never hear about Russia in the MSM.

Surely if there is a proxy war going on (Russia Today leads propaganda against the west) then you would think the MSM would be doing backflips of joy reporting how Russia aids Assad!!

Think about your arguments before insulting people! Your post is illogical!

I'll quote what you said-

You're right on the international politics thing too, did you know that Russia backs Assad? Most people don't because it's never mentioned in the press.

This would be ideal propaganda do you not even pay attention to the RT propaganda and how the west supports rebels in Syria etc.