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To those who said, "are you son of God?" Jesus said, "you say i am."

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posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 





The idea of pure monotheism now repluses christians as their beloved Jesus pbuh wouldnt fit, the sins come back to each and it gets too much work and yet an uncertainty for salvation.
If one loves Jesus pbuh they will want him saved and alive.
If he is loved only because he died for them, then its not pure love, its selfish gratitude love.


For one thing, do not stuff words in my mouth. Secondly, i did not say anyone else can resurrect you spiritually. As for christianity not being "pure monotheism", christianity teaches that Jesus is God and even the Apostles of Jesus even taught that.


What did Jesus say about Himself? Did He claim to be divine? Here are eight aspects to Jesus' claim to deity. 1. In John's Gospel He used the Jehovistic I AM identified Him with deity. {Exo.3:14; Jn.8:58} {a. I am the bread of life. Jn.6:35; b. I am the light of the world. Jn.8:12; c. I am the door. Jn.10:9; d. I am the good shepherd. Jn.10:11; e. I am the resurrection and the life. Jn.11:25; f. I am the way, the truth, and the life. Jn.14:6; g. I am the vine. Jn.15:5} 2. Jesus claimed to be the Adonai of the Old Testament. {Matt.22:42-45} 3. Jesus identifies Himself with God in the Baptismal Formula. {Matt.28:19} 4. Jesus claims to be one with the Father, and that seeing Him was seeing the Father. {Jn.10:30-33; 14:7-11} 5. When Jesus forgave sins, He was assuming a prerogative that belonged to God. {Isa.43:25; Mk.2:5-7} 6. Jesus was asserting that He was deity when He allowed people to worship Him. {Matt.14:33; 28:9; Jn.20:28-29} 7.Jesus claimed the comparative attributes of omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence. {Jn.1:48-49; 11:11-14; Matt.28:18; Jn.6:19} 8. Jesus claimed to have a special relationship with the heavenly Father by addressing Him, "My Father". { Jn.5:17-18}


Jesus is God

Jesus was worshipped and he allowed it and did not deny it and it is recorded in many verses, and he is even worshipped by angels in Hebrews and Revelation, now here's a list of the times he was worshipped.

Matthew
2:11
8:2
9:18
15:25
28:9
28:17

John
9:38
20:28

Hebrews
1:6

Now Yahveh already said he would not give his glory to another, yet here we see Jesus basking in Yahveh's glory and accepting it.

Isaiah 42:8

8 I am the Lord, that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.

Exodus 34:14 —for you shall not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God—

The last man to accept worship and praise by jews was Herod Antipas and God killed him for it on the spot. Now for Jesus to do this and not be God he would be an idolater and this is a major reason why jews say he is a false Messiah and do not recognize him and those jews who did follow him and worship him were excommunicated from synogogue and hunted down and imprisoned or put to death and Saul of Tarusus (later Apostle Paul) was one of the pharisees tasked with hunting them down.




posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:50 PM
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When Jesus was on the cross he asked the Father why hast thou forsaken me and before he gave up the ghost He said IT IT FINISHED reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 
Some how the fellow ignored that God did let Jesus die on the cross and the work that Jesus was sent to do was finished . There is no need for any other prophet or Islam .



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
When Jesus was on the cross he asked the Father why hast thou forsaken me and before he gave up the ghost He said IT IT FINISHED reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 
Some how the fellow ignored that God did let Jesus die on the cross and the work that Jesus was sent to do was finished . There is no need for any other prophet or Islam .



Jesus gave one last prophecy to John the Evangelist, that was the Revelation of Jesus Christ (book of Revelation). All we ever needed to know was in the last prophecies concerning the end, that Jesus gave to Peter before he ascended and to John around 93 A.D., except that Moses will come again which is the entire reason Michael and Heylel fought over Moses' body in Jude 1.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


you do not know the first part of holy Wisdom and neither are you logical. God would not leave His people without a path to Him, and even when the Jews had edited the Old testament the Law of God was still contained in it. The Quaran is a book built for those who understand by the letter and not by the spirit, just like the pharisees. You have not understood the Spirit of any spiritual text because you are not spiritual, you are looking for a quarrel as you can tell from your OP. I leave you to the hands of God because, while you think you may be justifying yourself you are justifying the flesh and the pride of it. May God have mercy on those who do not accept it, it is the greatest sin as shown by Judas the Betrayer of God. There is no Wisdom in instigation and denial.

Closed mindedness is not logical. You have a perception that only you, yourself understand because you wish to deny the truth and persuade yourself in your own thoughts. Not everyone is going to agree with you. So try not to twist everything to fit your thoughts, because you are building a house on a foundation of sand. Christ is my rock and I stand firm, do not be pained when my love for God does not budge, as it never will.

I was looking for a discussion of peace, but you have made it judgmental and disgraceful to God. Children of God speak by a bond of Love, no matter what religion they are in. You instead try to destroy in someone the Faith in Christ, you curse and revile me, but I bless you and i will receive a blessing for it.

Thanks be to God Triune
edit on 13-11-2012 by backcase because: (no reason given)
edit on 13-11-2012 by backcase because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 06:34 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by logical7
 





The idea of pure monotheism now repluses christians as their beloved Jesus pbuh wouldnt fit, the sins come back to each and it gets too much work and yet an uncertainty for salvation.
If one loves Jesus pbuh they will want him saved and alive.
If he is loved only because he died for them, then its not pure love, its selfish gratitude love.


For one thing, do not stuff words in my mouth. Secondly, i did not say anyone else can resurrect you spiritually. As for christianity not being "pure monotheism", christianity teaches that Jesus is God and even the Apostles of Jesus even taught that.


What did Jesus say about Himself? Did He claim to be divine? Here are eight aspects to Jesus' claim to deity. 1. In John's Gospel He used the Jehovistic I AM identified Him with deity. {Exo.3:14; Jn.8:58} {a. I am the bread of life. Jn.6:35; b. I am the light of the world. Jn.8:12; c. I am the door. Jn.10:9; d. I am the good shepherd. Jn.10:11; e. I am the resurrection and the life. Jn.11:25; f. I am the way, the truth, and the life. Jn.14:6; g. I am the vine. Jn.15:5} 2. Jesus claimed to be the Adonai of the Old Testament. {Matt.22:42-45} 3. Jesus identifies Himself with God in the Baptismal Formula. {Matt.28:19} 4. Jesus claims to be one with the Father, and that seeing Him was seeing the Father. {Jn.10:30-33; 14:7-11} 5. When Jesus forgave sins, He was assuming a prerogative that belonged to God. {Isa.43:25; Mk.2:5-7} 6. Jesus was asserting that He was deity when He allowed people to worship Him. {Matt.14:33; 28:9; Jn.20:28-29} 7.Jesus claimed the comparative attributes of omnipresence, omniscience, and omnipotence. {Jn.1:48-49; 11:11-14; Matt.28:18; Jn.6:19} 8. Jesus claimed to have a special relationship with the heavenly Father by addressing Him, "My Father". { Jn.5:17-18}


Jesus is God

Jesus was worshipped and he allowed it and did not deny it and it is recorded in many verses, and he is even worshipped by angels in Hebrews and Revelation, now here's a list of the times he was worshipped.

Matthew
2:11
8:2
9:18
15:25
28:9
28:17

John
9:38
20:28

Hebrews
1:6

Now Yahveh already said he would not give his glory to another, yet here we see Jesus basking in Yahveh's glory and accepting it.

Isaiah 42:8

8 I am the Lord, that is My name;
And My glory I will not give to another,
Nor My praise to carved images.

Exodus 34:14 —for you shall not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God—

The last man to accept worship and praise by jews was Herod Antipas and God killed him for it on the spot. Now for Jesus to do this and not be God he would be an idolater and this is a major reason why jews say he is a false Messiah and do not recognize him and those jews who did follow him and worship him were excommunicated from synogogue and hunted down and imprisoned or put to death and Saul of Tarusus (later Apostle Paul) was one of the pharisees tasked with hunting them down.

i think you dont get the meaning of "pure monotheism"
Jesus pbuh allowed people to think whatever they felt fit but he never claimed divinity otherwise jews are at no fault to try and kill him. The alleged him for blasphemy when he was innocent and never admitted their accusation.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
When Jesus was on the cross he asked the Father why hast thou forsaken me and before he gave up the ghost He said IT IT FINISHED reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 
Some how the fellow ignored that God did let Jesus die on the cross and the work that Jesus was sent to do was finished . There is no need for any other prophet or Islam .


seriously?!! Jesus pbuh said "it is finished" and you will use it to justify that nothing else is required? And God let Jesus pbuh die? Maybe, or maybe that you were lied to big time.
If what you say is true then you are fine. But if you were lied to and God send islam to correct the wrong beliefs then where you stand??



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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reply to post by backcase
 



you do not know the first part of holy
Wisdom and neither are you logical.

is it that, i should believe whatever you say?

God would not leave His people
without a path to Him

very true!!

and even when
the Jews had edited the Old testament
the Law of God was still contained in it.

so people can change their holy books to serve their lowly desires? Hmm..


The Quaran is a book built for those
who understand by the letter and not
by the spirit, just like the pharisees.
You have not understood the Spirit of
any spiritual text because you are not
spiritual, you are looking for a quarrel as you can tell from your OP.

you dont know anything about Quran(this is the spelling) except maybe the stray verses picked up to make christians better about themself, however i may be wrong, anyways check the sites in my signature and you may be less ignorant. Quran is 2/3rd about spirituality, 1/3rd laws.
Let God judge how spiritual i am, but maybe you would do better not to accuse someone of having anti-christ beliefs.
My OP is just trying to clear up the alleged divinity of Jesus pbuh. Thats my belief, and here only one can be right and so a discussion is required.

you may be justifying
yourself you are justifying the flesh
and the pride of it. May God have
mercy on those who do not accept it, it is the greatest sin as shown by Judas
the Betrayer of God. There is no
Wisdom in instigation and denial.
Closed mindedness is not logical. You
have a perception that only you,
yourself understand because you wish to deny the truth and persuade
yourself in your own thoughts. Not
everyone is going to agree with you.
So try not to twist everything to fit
your thoughts, because you are
building a house on a foundation of sand. Christ is my rock and I stand
firm, do not be pained when my love
for God does not budge, as it never
will.
I was looking for a discussion of
peace, but you have made it judgmental and disgraceful to God.
Children of God speak by a bond of
Love, no matter what religion they are
in. You instead try to destroy in
someone the Faith in Christ, you curse
and revile me, but I bless you and i will receive a blessing for it.

look at yourself, you talk as if you know it all, be careful, i almost thought you as a false prophet. Faith in Christ? What will happen when Christ himself refuses to even identify you cause you made him someone he is not. and did not worship and obey his God and your God.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by logical7
Luke

66 And as soon as it was day, the elders
of the people and
the chief priests and
the scribes came
together, and led
him into their council, saying, 67 Art thou the Christ? tell us. And
he said unto them, If
I tell you, ye will not
believe:
That means he is but they wont believe.


68 And if I also ask you, ye will not
answer me, nor let
me go.

they are arrogant enough not to acknowlege it even when they know

69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit
on the right hand of
the power of God.

son of man? Nice! and ya he would have a high station in heaven, all prophets will

70 Then said they all, Art thou then the
Son of God? And he
said unto them, Ye
say that I am.

that means, you say that not i. talk about putting their words in his mouth


71 And they said, What need we any
further witness? for
we ourselves have
heard of his own
mouth.

ultimate example of being blind with arrogance.
.
Jews used that allegedly 'his' claim to crucify him.
Christians used the same to worship him.
So either both are right or both wrong.
He never agreed to that, if he was son of God he could have and made it easier for both jews and christians, knowing that he would not be let go anyway. So the only explanation is Jesus pbuh is truthful. but he dint deny directly cause he knew they wouldnt believe and he knew what is God's plan and will. He is being called back as his people proved their arrogance and rebellion against God.
Discuss.


Believers and demons both acknowledge Jesus is the Son of God:
28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[c] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding. 31 The demons begged Jesus, “If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs.”

32 He said to them, “Go!” So they came out and went into the pigs, and the whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water. 33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men. 34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they pleaded with him to leave their region.

We are all technically sons of God, the question is... what does it mean to be the Son of God?



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by LittleByLittle
 


Sounds like you adhere to the Oprah theology. There is one truth, one absaolute truth . Better find it .


I am pretty happy with my view on everything and not at all afraid of leaving this place. I have for myself proof of things that unfortunaly most people around me have not experianced yeet and faith a very pale thing against the real thing. I do not have to be 100% right in my view and I take it as a certain that I will be wrong about a lot of things.

Being right or wrong is not important. The important thing is to let go of the need to be right and just connect.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


ya, as you said, the title son of God is not exclusive to Jesus pbuh.
Other prophets have been called that in the OT. even called begotton son and firstborns of God. All this is just titles not literally true, just denoting that they are close to God.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 09:13 AM
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Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


ya, as you said, the title son of God is not exclusive to Jesus pbuh.
Other prophets have been called that in the OT. even called begotton son and firstborns of God. All this is just titles not literally true, just denoting that they are close to God.


I think there's a difference between sons of God and the Son of God, not just the capitalized "S."

The nature of Christ have caused many violent arguments in the church's history, so I expect nothing less than blood and anger in our quarrel


That being said, my stance on the issue, although its being constantly reworked, goes along the lines of this: Jesus Christ and Father were one in the same during his time here so that whenever Jesus Christ taught a lesson, which was basically a lot because we humans always forget lessons
, Father would speak. Yet although they are one during Jesus's fleshly time, they are two completely, different entities. The chain of command goes as: Father > Jesus Christ.

edit on 15-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 


Well after a few days, many have found your argument faulty, as you just seem to deny arguments with obvious contempt, insults, and threats. I do not mean to say that your religion is violent, but is is very prone to rage through simple argument. It is either that or you are a very bad ambassador of Islam.

I've had enough of this thread as you just deny any oppositional argument, take everything personally and come to blows. The fruits of good will are peace and joy, if you do not have these then you do not have God within you, instead you refuse Him. And so I give you may prayers that you may turn from your ways, as you also have a soul, and I have mercy upon that and that only, because you choose to wound it.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


ya, as you said, the title son of God is not exclusive to Jesus pbuh.
Other prophets have been called that in the OT. even called begotton son and firstborns of God. All this is just titles not literally true, just denoting that they are close to God.


I think there's a difference between sons of God and the Son of God, not just the capitalized "S."

The nature of Christ have caused many violent arguments in the church's history, so I expect nothing less than blood and anger in our quarrel


That being said, my stance on the issue, although its being constantly reworked, goes along the lines of this: Jesus Christ and Father were one in the same during his time here so that whenever Jesus Christ taught a lesson, which was basically a lot because we humans always forget lessons
, Father would speak. Yet although they are one during Jesus's fleshly time, they are two completely, different entities. The chain of command goes as: Father > Jesus Christ.


i am actually surprised by what you said, Father>Jesus Christ pbuh.
I believe that too, but obviously i dont believe in his divinity.
I dont want any quarrels. And i guess bloodshed happened when the catholic church tried to force a universal belief on everyone.
Also i know the christian stand and theology, although i am learning more and a bit variation from person to person i talk.
So now when you say Father>Jesus pbuh then does it mean that their wills can contradict and when that happens, the son submits?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by backcase
reply to post by logical7
 


Well after a few days, many have found your argument faulty, as you just seem to deny arguments with obvious contempt, insults, and threats. I do not mean to say that your religion is violent, but is is very prone to rage through simple argument. It is either that or you are a very bad ambassador of Islam.

I've had enough of this thread as you just deny any oppositional argument, take everything personally and come to blows. The fruits of good will are peace and joy, if you do not have these then you do not have God within you, instead you refuse Him. And so I give you may prayers that you may turn from your ways, as you also have a soul, and I have mercy upon that and that only, because you choose to wound it.

if my not accepting an argument shows contempt then its not intentional.
And ya i do respond in the same way that i was spoken too.
I am here to discuss, not to be preached and when someone does that then my reply is not sweet.
My basic necessity is sensible argument, not quotes from a text to prove any point. or i can just start quoting Quran and complain the same as you when you dont accept it.
We are arguing point of views that are contradictory, so only one can be true. I'l be happy if you have the courage to find the truth with me, your Faith in Christ wouldnt be shaken, just restored to the correct level.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 


I have shown you mercy and you have spoken stubbornly. My faith does not need to be restored because in the way that you want me to do so would destroy my faith. In the last post you made a comment of me to another Christian, trying to turn him against me. You are trying to divide Christians from Christians and that is a tactic of the Antichrist, so yes we shall see which is correct. But I know, and your lies and deceit will not work on me. I can tell between truth and deceit, because the Holy Spirit gives me the gift of discernment. You come off as bad because your intentions are bad.

In this thread we see your hatred and your false love for others, trying to flatter them and turn them against others. You chose to reason Muslim beliefs with the new testament with Christians and was shot down. You no longer have an argument. Goodbye



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:21 PM
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reply to post by logical7
 



John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."

John 10:30 "The Father and I are one."

Matthew 12:8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath."


Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you.."

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them."

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, "whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."

John 6:38 - Jesus says, "For I have come down from heaven."

John 8:12 - Jesus says "I am the light of the world." - 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, "if you knew me, you would know my Father also."

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "Yahweh," which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."

John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, "You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM."

John 14:6 - Jesus says "I am the way, and the truth and the life." Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, "all things that the Father has are Mine." Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that "He came from the Father and has come into the world."

John 17:5,24 - Jesus' desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying "My Father and your Father."

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the "Alpha and the Omega." In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end." The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, "I am the First and the Last." This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says "I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore." When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.
Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 


Bravo good woman.

May God bless you and increase wisdom in you in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ

Peace to you.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 


ya, as you said, the title son of God is not exclusive to Jesus pbuh.
Other prophets have been called that in the OT. even called begotton son and firstborns of God. All this is just titles not literally true, just denoting that they are close to God.


I think there's a difference between sons of God and the Son of God, not just the capitalized "S."

The nature of Christ have caused many violent arguments in the church's history, so I expect nothing less than blood and anger in our quarrel


That being said, my stance on the issue, although its being constantly reworked, goes along the lines of this: Jesus Christ and Father were one in the same during his time here so that whenever Jesus Christ taught a lesson, which was basically a lot because we humans always forget lessons
, Father would speak. Yet although they are one during Jesus's fleshly time, they are two completely, different entities. The chain of command goes as: Father > Jesus Christ.


i am actually surprised by what you said, Father>Jesus Christ pbuh.
I believe that too, but obviously i dont believe in his divinity.
I dont want any quarrels. And i guess bloodshed happened when the catholic church tried to force a universal belief on everyone.
Also i know the christian stand and theology, although i am learning more and a bit variation from person to person i talk.
So now when you say Father>Jesus pbuh then does it mean that their wills can contradict and when that happens, the son submits?


I mean that Jesus receives his authority from Father, not the other way around. Jesus says not even he knows the time of the end of life as we know it, so to me, that postulates that Father > Jesus Christ. However, I will try and explain what my thoughts are relative to their wills contradicting.

Remember, God love the world so much that He gave His one and only Son to us. However, when Jesus was crucified, my theory is that the actual event happening, although both knew it had to come, pained Father so much to see that He was about to destroy the whole earth. The death of one's own son is a tremendous ordeal, as we can see in our lives. But Jesus, loving the humanity so much, said before he, as the authors of the Gospels said, gave his final breath, yelled, "My power, my power, why have you forsaken me?" To me, Jesus was saying the final words to Father that made Him remind what was at stake and the whole purpose of the sacrifice. This is the only time I can think of what we view as a "contradiction."

Although I believe the founders of different religions such as Mohammed and Buddha to name a few, are of the above, none of these founders share the same role of divinity Jesus does. Jesus shows humanity that we as well have the unique, intimate, personal relationship with Father. What the religions, such as Islam, Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, etc, have in common is that people with the wrong intentions came along and convoluted and detracted from the same essential message, which is to love your neighbor, Jesus did go the extra mile in explaining to people to love their enemies (forgive us for trespasses as we forgive those we trespass against us, turn the other cheek, give the robber the clothes on your back, etc.), do good, and believe in God. Although Buddha didn't believe in God, mainly because I think he realized the whole mess that Hinduism made by denoting gods and goddesses, he did not oppress the followers from adapting a theistic point of view.

Also, I think this quote is very important;
"The ultimate test of a relationship is to disagree but hold hands." - Alexandria Penney

None of us fully know what goes on behind the scene, and none of us are perfect but have the potential to be, and we kind of deflect that anger of our imperfectness to others. We can argue all day about what happens behind the scene, but if we can not practice and live by the essential message, what is the point?

The founding of mainstream Christianity was filled with people fighting among each other through violent means because of what they thought was truth, but in reality, they were blind to the truth, because if they knew the truth, things wouldn't be the way they are now. Let's make it a goal to not make the same mistakes they have.

Also, I think we can be angry with Father. I was extremely pissed off when my mom passed away, and yelled at Him for taking her when I was still so young. I even went to the point of saying, I don't believe You exist because You wouldn't have let this happen. I think that showed Father that I still loved Him enough to act the way I did. I became the lost sheep, and the good shepherd went searching for me, as He does for all. Religion makes it seem as if the lost sheep must go looking for the shepherd, which is not true at all.


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edit on 15-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)
edit on 15-11-2012 by DelayedChristmas because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:55 PM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 



John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Amen,
amen, I say to you, before Abraham
came to be, I AM."

before Abraham pbuh was born, Jesus pbuh existed.
The souls of each person to be ever born exist right from the beginning.

John 10:30 "The Father and I are
one."

in intention, in spirit, anyone who submits his/her will to Almighty God becomes one with Him.

Matthew 12:8 "For the Son of Man is Lord of the sabbath."

lord means master over it and ya God send Jesus pbuh to teach jews not to be hardheaded and strict to the extent of defying common sense. And son of man again, he knew who he was.

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan,
"you shall not tempt the Lord your
God" in reference to Himself.

lets read it in context-
5 Then the devil taketh him up into
the holy city, and
setteth him on a
pinnacle of the
temple,
6 And saith unto him, If thou be the
Son of God, cast
thyself down: for it is
written, He shall give
his angels charge
concerning thee: and in their hands
they shall bear thee
up, lest at any time
thou dash thy foot
against a stone.
7 Jesus said unto him, It is written
again, Thou shalt
not tempt the Lord
thy God.
You take it as Jesus pbuh saying to devil "dont tempt me"
what it really is Jesus pbuh saying to devil "i will not tempt/test my God just cause you tell me"
and i havent heard of any WRITTEN command to devils not to tempt God.
But ya there is a command to believers not to test God. Neither Jesus pbuh nor any sensible person would jump from a building saying "God save me and prove to this devil that you can save me"!!
.
And Lord is not equal to God, it may mean master, sir, leader etc, God can be our Lord but not all Lords are God. Our Lord God is One.
.
Just few question why maximum verses from John? The newest gospel or the gospel written the last? Why the fig tree takes a day to wither in initial gospel but in John it withers on the spot? Jesus pbuh getting powerful with time? Or stories being refined to make a prophet, a man appear divine?



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by backcase
 


relax my friend!!
You are being a bit paranoid.
and i do hope that this time you mean your 'goodbye'
peace be with you.





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