To those who said, "are you son of God?" Jesus said, "you say i am.", page 3

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reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 04:41 AM by logical7

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7

I can't see how anyone could reverence Mohammed or his revelation . He was a murderer and fornicator . He was not a diety in any respect . Even you can't defend him . But to each his own , for good or bad .

I revere God and anyone and everyone He sent with the same simple message. Otherwise i wouldnt be better than the pharasies, and as Jesus pbuh said, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharasies you would not enter the kingdom.
But people during time did corrupt the message and intoduced paganism, polythiest like beliefs and God sent prophets again and again to clean up and guide to make worship exclusive for God, "Your God is a jealous God"
.
Thats the basic story in OT, NT and Quran.
And why do you hate anything related to islam? Did it hurt you or its just because its different from what you believe??

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 09:47 AM by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7

I can't see how anyone could reverence Mohammed or his revelation . He was a murderer and fornicator . He was not a diety in any respect . Even you can't defend him . But to each his own , for good or bad .

I revere God and anyone and everyone He sent with the same simple message. Otherwise i wouldnt be better than the pharasies, and as Jesus pbuh said, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the pharasies you would not enter the kingdom.
But people during time did corrupt the message and intoduced paganism, polythiest like beliefs and God sent prophets again and again to clean up and guide to make worship exclusive for God, "Your God is a jealous God"
.
Thats the basic story in OT, NT and Quran.
And why do you hate anything related to islam? Did it hurt you or its just because its different from what you believe??

I have read some Quran and I have a hard time reading the english translation because it is screwed up and seem more hateful and fearful when I read it. I am not afraid of god because I cannot see god judging me harder than I will do myself. But maybe I am wrong. At least there is something on the other side of the veil that likes me for what I am. I love loving spirits.

If I understand correctly Muhammad gave a nondualistic speech as his last speech so how can I say he is totaly wrong from my point of view even if Muhammad and me disagree on a lot of things.

Humans always screw up every religion they create with human smallminded dogma. Like the Sikhs. They create a totaly nondualistic religion in theory with all the right words from my point of view and then they tell their followers not to cut their hair and create another duality and human dogma that makes the whole religion another fail. It is like stoping precisly before the finish line and going in a complete different direction. It is in it's insanety so funny that you do not know if you are gonna cry or laught at the foolishness.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 10:16 AM by SimonPeter

reply to post by logical7

Why didn't you believe Jim Jones ? God does not send the Devil with a message of his new Holy plan. What are you thinking ? Have you been blinded to logic . Have you chosen to be Islamic with your buddies and family ? Is it a Islamic brotherhood you support ? Mohammed was not a Holy messenger in any way . Based on the merits he was not of God . What you want to believe you will believe though because it is convenient .

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 11:43 AM by logical7

reply to post by LittleByLittle

could you explain what you mean?
God should like you how you are rather than you trying to become better? You say you judge yourself better, so what standard you use?

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 12:12 PM by Unity_99

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Unity_99

he is enlighted, he is christ, just look at his parables, his teachings, they are sensible and wise.
But he is not divine.

I think I kind of said that by implying he was head of the Essenes, and used the Freeman Defense in Court, which didn't work.

However, you and I may not agree on the meaning or definition of God, or that we are gods, or what Immanuel, God with us, means. Or what the universe is and Family Beyond the duality planes, ie, the infinite realms or mansions of heaven like an infinite stack of paper, and different realities, times, and systems, universes/dimensions, but a definite cut off on duality and Family from beyond this. And what time is, and out of time and out of the lessons that are already there all around us like DVDS, how Infinite Self is our Father/Mother, ie our Higher Self, and that when Jesus said, "I and my Father are one and the same" He may have meant 2 things.

1. I am One with my Higher Self, more of myself is in me, I am from on High, a Higher Up, in the world....

2. I am One with the One Spirit of Love that Connects All Infinite Souls, that we call God.

I see, if He was a man that truly existed, but a story hijacked and changed into Zeus and a false sun god (will you give your heart to Jesus, like a mayan sacrifice to the sun??? so much bad coding, and yet the Love in the new testament is still the way back home if you divorce it from the Bad Codings of the Dark Squares and the Wolves reworking of the story)...

But if he really existed, then I see him as Immanuel, a true Higher Up, a much bigger portion of his Soul, who is One with God, with us.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 12:12 PM by logical7

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7

Why didn't you believe Jim Jones ? God does not send the Devil with a message of his new Holy plan. What are you thinking ? Have you been blinded to logic . Have you chosen to be Islamic with your buddies and family ? Is it a Islamic brotherhood you support ? Mohammed was not a Holy messenger in any way . Based on the merits he was not of God . What you want to believe you will believe though because it is convenient .

you tell me your belief as if its a fact? Logically,you may or may not be correct and the same with me. But if you think anyone having opinions and beliefs other than what you have are indoctrinated/deluded etc then you are mistaken badly.
Lets see why you are preached and want to believe that islam is the boogeyman. Because its a threat, a BIG one. Right from its arrival, the masses especially in europe and later america have been kept ignorant and disinformed about Islam. Its a rival which came to steal followers, steal the glory etc. But the more helpless they become the more hate is spewed. So if i am a neutral person and read one person spew hate at other who is a rival, i wouldnt believe everything thats said.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 12:50 PM by logical7

Originally posted by Unity_99

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by Unity_99

he is enlighted, he is christ, just look at his parables, his teachings, they are sensible and wise.
But he is not divine.

I think I kind of said that by implying he was head of the Essenes, and used the Freeman Defense in Court, which didn't work.

However, you and I may not agree on the meaning or definition of God, or that we are gods, or what Immanuel, God with us, means. Or what the universe is and Family Beyond the duality planes, ie, the infinite realms or mansions of heaven like an infinite stack of paper, and different realities, times, and systems, universes/dimensions, but a definite cut off on duality and Family from beyond this. And what time is, and out of time and out of the lessons that are already there all around us like DVDS, how Infinite Self is our Father/Mother, ie our Higher Self, and that when Jesus said, "I and my Father are one and the same" He may have meant 2 things.

1. I am One with my Higher Self, more of myself is in me, I am from on High, a Higher Up, in the world....

2. I am One with the One Spirit of Love that Connects All Infinite Souls, that we call God.

I see, if He was a man that truly existed, but a story hijacked and changed into Zeus and a false sun god (will you give your heart to Jesus, like a mayan sacrifice to the sun??? so much bad coding, and yet the Love in the new testament is still the way back home if you divorce it from the Bad Codings of the Dark Squares and the Wolves reworking of the story)...

But if he really existed, then I see him as Immanuel, a true Higher Up, a much bigger portion of his Soul, who is One with God, with us.

i see you as a very philosophical christian. I maybe very wrong about the christian part.
I do notice buddhist philosophy too.
And maybe you are saying that Jesus pbuh is at a higher self awareness than us but not as high as Highest Self(God) so immanuel fits him.
Tell me how much i got you.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 01:32 PM by lonewolf19792000

reply to post by logical7

The kingdom was at hand. Jesus was talking about himself when he said that. That Kingdom was postponed until a later date because of his work at Golgotha. Hence why he didn't destroy Rome back then. The jews wanted to take the Kingdom by violence, they wanted something they could fight and die for. The entire reason the Apostles were not crucified until after he ascended was he wanted their deaths to glorify him in peace not violence, he wanted them to die for him when there was nothing left to fight for because that's the true test of love. All throughout life people try to hold onto everything they have, even their own lives with all their power knowing they will fail in the end and die, but letting this world go sets you free from it in Him.

Jesus said: Luke 17:33 Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

You can't take the kingdom by violence. You surrender to the kingdom, not the otherway around.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 02:27 PM by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Aren't you trying to save your life by believing in Jesus? Isn't the whole reason behind believing in Jesus to get into heaven and have eternal life? To believe in something other than Jesus is to have death but to believe is to have life.

"Whoever loses their life will preserve it", that line contradicts the whole teaching of Christianity. Christians believe that if they believe in Jesus that they will never lose life, so how can believing preserve your life if you think you will never lose it?

Those who lose their lives preserve yet those who try to keep it (worshipers of Jesus) will lose it, according to Jesus.

edit on 9-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 03:48 PM by logical7

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus said: Luke 17:33 Whoever seeks
to save his life will lose it, and whoever
loses his life will preserve it. You can't take the kingdom by
violence. You surrender to the
kingdom, not the otherway around.

i agree, Jesus pbuh sounds like talking about islam(surrender)
ya, anyone who is ready to die for God would live.
Anyone who fears death and as a result refuse to obey God and doesnt do good or justice dies.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 04:08 PM by Unity_99

reply to post by logical7

Yes, the Immanuel being Higher Up, Higher Self Who Is One With God, here in the world with us. Not subject to the lessons here, a true Helper come in, OR someone at the very last limits of their test in the Master Test with Ascension for the first time. Though if He was one who came many times, to here and other worlds, He could have ascended many times already as well, as an example. He could be called a Buddha. Buddhists call him thus.

And I just remembered, so will edit and add, wanted to point out the Bible has many clues in it for those who pay attention, that it is truly not a fundamental thing, but metaphor.

Ie. Genesis, 32 30 where Jacob points out that the place he met God in, he called Penial. Your third eye. It truly is a bit Eastern, almost some of the Taoist Alchemy could be put into some of what Christ spoke.

For example, research Taosit Alchemy and the Precious Pearl, the Light Body, the Astral Projection, the Kingdom of God within you, whereas the Outer more of a reflection and contains Shadow, but also light as the Light shines through the mirror. And then there is a blending between Eastern and Chi, and Christ.

There is more to the Christ Story, and the Creation of the Universe, but there is a limit to what Im willing to think deeply on, as who could really do all that? We go to the grass roots levels and roll our sleeves up and so alot of what we are, here on this planet, is still more authentic to the grass roots levels and knowledge, and we hold that up on high as all that is truly needed, for We Are Freeing This Planet Now!

edit on 9-11-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 04:11 PM by SimonPeter

reply to post by logical7

The Gospel of Jesus needs no adjustments. God didn't make a mistake sending him , the Great I AM , the Lord, Emmanuel His Son, the Messiah . Nothing was left amiss . God was well pleased in his Son who kept the Law and was crucified blameless for the remission of sin .This was the work of God !
Why would God send someone who did not keep his commandments , some one who instead Violated all of his commandments to do his will ??????

I have not lied to you . There is only one truth ! If you truly seek it it will find you . This isn't your bunch against my bunch it's ultimately about you and your family .

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 05:24 PM by LittleByLittle

could you explain what you mean?
God should like you how you are rather than you trying to become better? You say you judge yourself better, so what standard you use?

Higher ideals where all are meant to be treated like an equal and with respect if they follow the golden rule. Service to ALL including yourself. I have a hard time with bullying in any form since I feel it is an ego parasitic behaviour and counter to what should be followed. You should be allowed to be different in any way you like as long as it is in symbiosis with the people and nature who are affected by your behaviour within reason. People should if able think outside the box and with a long time frame.

And I did not say better. I said I judge myself harder. It would probably be good for me to go easier on myself but that is not the ego/mind/spirit that I have at this time in my evolution. I am also tired of the limitations and processing power of the human brain. This biological hardware feels so slow and limiting.

edit on 9-11-2012 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 05:39 PM by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by logical7
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus said: Luke 17:33 Whoever seeks
to save his life will lose it, and whoever
loses his life will preserve it. You can't take the kingdom by
violence. You surrender to the
kingdom, not the otherway around.

i agree, Jesus pbuh sounds like talking about islam(surrender)
ya, anyone who is ready to die for God would live.
Anyone who fears death and as a result refuse to obey God and doesnt do good or justice dies.

Dying is easy and just another change. Every moment I change a little bit and become something else than what I have been. In a sense I die all the time. But form my point of view the bigger sacrifice is staying here and working toward the harmony of humanity than leaving this place.

edit on 9-11-2012 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 05:48 PM by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Aren't you trying to save your life by believing in Jesus? Isn't the whole reason behind believing in Jesus to get into heaven and have eternal life? To believe in something other than Jesus is to have death but to believe is to have life.

"Whoever loses their life will preserve it", that line contradicts the whole teaching of Christianity. Christians believe that if they believe in Jesus that they will never lose life, so how can believing preserve your life if you think you will never lose it?

Those who lose their lives preserve yet those who try to keep it (worshipers of Jesus) will lose it, according to Jesus.
edit on 9-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

No it doesn't contradict christianity. It's about spiritual salvation. These bodies are dying, they must die. These bodies are not what we're seeking to preserve, but our soul and spirit which is our essence. It's about choosing which kingdom you want, this fleshly kingdom which will die and fade away, or his eternal kingdom which will replace this one. Those who choose this kingdom will perish with it.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 07:11 PM by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus says nothing about spiritual salvation throughout that whole passage. The context is of the end times meaning those who seek to live (a.k.a. kneeling before Jesus) will die, that is a contradiction to the mainstream teachings of salvation through Jesus when he comes back.

Those who realize that their life will end will be given life while those who expect their memories to continue will be met with death.

edit on 9-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 10:08 PM by SimonPeter

Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Jesus says nothing about spiritual salvation throughout that whole passage. The context is of the end times meaning those who seek to live (a.k.a. kneeling before Jesus) will die, that is a contradiction to the mainstream teachings of salvation through Jesus when he comes back.

Those who realize that their life will end will be given life while those who expect their memories to continue will be met with death.
edit on 9-11-2012 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

When Jesus talks about when he comes for you , if you feel it necessary to turn away to cling to something or someone from this life as Lot's wife your heart is really not with him and the kingdom of heaven .
Imagine a loved one who is not of the same mind as you about Jesus you cannot turn back to try to bring them also . This may seem terrible but their fate has already been sealed . If you love life more than Jesus so is yours .

reply posted on 10-11-2012 @ 02:42 AM by logical7

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7

The Gospel of Jesus needs no adjustments. God didn't make a mistake sending him , the Great I AM , the Lord, Emmanuel His Son, the Messiah . Nothing was left amiss . God was well pleased in his Son who kept the Law and was crucified blameless for the remission of sin .This was the work of God !
Why would God send someone who did not keep his commandments , some one who instead Violated all of his commandments to do his will ??????
I have not lied to you . There is only one truth ! If you truly seek it it will find you . This isn't your bunch against my bunch it's ultimately about you and your family .

Gospel of Jesus pbuh doesnt, but gospel of the church does.
Ya Jesus kept the law, and taught everyone to better keep it or be least in the kingdom.
But as soon as he left, a strange theology abolished it, made him divine and he became the god who die for sins of the world.
.
Muslims believe him and follow what he taught before crucificition(alleged)and ascension.
But christians rather make the theology after him as their belief. want him to die for them. A quick easy way to the kingdom with the blood of "son of God" on their hand and lips, Father would really be pleased!
If the OT God doesnt allow blasphemy, the same with Quran, how making equals to God becomes a required belief in a religion?
I am not worried about me or my family, my friend.
Salvation is still based on being judged for our actions and the forgiveness and mercy from God just like it was right from Adam.
.
Jesus pbuh said to keep the law till the heaven and the earth pass away,
if i hear a contradictory theology, i dont have to hesitate to decide which to believe or who the 'anti'-christ must be. literally!!

reply posted on 10-11-2012 @ 03:18 AM by logical7

Originally posted by LittleByLittle

could you explain what you mean?
God should like you how you are rather than you trying to become better? You say you judge yourself better, so what standard you use?

Higher ideals where all are meant to be treated like an equal and with respect if they follow the golden rule. Service to ALL including yourself. I have a hard time with bullying in any form since I feel it is an ego parasitic behaviour and counter to what should be followed. You should be allowed to be different in any way you like as long as it is in symbiosis with the people and nature who are affected by your behaviour within reason. People should if able think outside the box and with a long time frame.

And I did not say better. I said I judge myself harder. It would probably be good for me to go easier on myself but that is not the ego/mind/spirit that I have at this time in my evolution. I am also tired of the limitations and processing power of the human brain. This biological hardware feels so slow and limiting.
edit on 9-11-2012 by LittleByLittle because: Spellchecking

i agree to most of what you said, but like you mentioned our reasoning is limited, too much. we can never comprehend how far the effects of our action can ripple and spread. so we do need a law. A guide to make it easier. Law is not something to smother and limit only, it lets you free yourself from mundane things so that you go higher. You would agree that constantly watching over yourself would be draining you a lot.

reply posted on 10-11-2012 @ 03:46 AM by LittleByLittle

Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7

The Gospel of Jesus needs no adjustments. God didn't make a mistake sending him , the Great I AM , the Lord, Emmanuel His Son, the Messiah . Nothing was left amiss . God was well pleased in his Son who kept the Law and was crucified blameless for the remission of sin .This was the work of God !
Why would God send someone who did not keep his commandments , some one who instead Violated all of his commandments to do his will ??????
I have not lied to you . There is only one truth ! If you truly seek it it will find you . This isn't your bunch against my bunch it's ultimately about you and your family .

Gospel of Jesus pbuh doesnt, but gospel of the church does.
Ya Jesus kept the law, and taught everyone to better keep it or be least in the kingdom.
But as soon as he left, a strange theology abolished it, made him divine and he became the god who die for sins of the world.
.
Muslims believe him and follow what he taught before crucificition(alleged)and ascension.
But christians rather make the theology after him as their belief. want him to die for them. A quick easy way to the kingdom with the blood of "son of God" on their hand and lips, Father would really be pleased!
If the OT God doesnt allow blasphemy, the same with Quran, how making equals to God becomes a required belief in a religion?
I am not worried about me or my family, my friend.
Salvation is still based on being judged for our actions and the forgiveness and mercy from God just like it was right from Adam.
.
Jesus pbuh said to keep the law till the heaven and the earth pass away,
if i hear a contradictory theology, i dont have to hesitate to decide which to believe or who the 'anti'-christ must be. literally!!

From my point of view any human dogma (religion) that is limiting a humans connection with god by small minded views are anti-gnosis (anti reaching christ conciousness (anti ego loss)). Faith without works is dead as they say but I am not much for faith at all, since human dogma is increadably small minded and human fear for the unknown in those faith is holding humans back. I constantly question everything and think people who say you should love god by command are fooling themselves. Forced love is not true love. Is it not up to god and the spirit in the human body to make their connection with each other and choose their own way to be with each other not regulated by a priest (who sometimes have even less of a connection with god than the simple man).

People in middle east have a tendency to kill their mystics in their small minded view of what is of god. They are not following the golden rule and have by that becomes something that is counter to god/evolustion. Orginised religion have become more about control and less about truely connecting with god.