Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

Originally posted by MonkeyFishFrog

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GideonFaith

 

Ridiculous!! Urges are just that, but there are no excuses for being stupid and getting pregnant and then aborting because of an urge.

And there it is, judgement against women for being stupid enough to get pregnant. Yet your "personage" agenda would ban most types of birth control being used by fertile woman today, lending to more stupid women getting pregnant because of sinful urges that lead to sacred life! Then again, infertile woman would no longer have access to in vitro either.

Once again, the only ones who need to control or curb their urges are women. The only ones blamed for abortions are women. Where are people admonishing men for falling prey to their urges and getting women pregnant?

Just look at the title of the thread, something I have pointed out several times in this thread, that this is made to play the blame game with only one half of the sex that results in a possible future human.

I was in a Philosophy class where a woman shared a story from when she was a teenager. Her mom told her to "never get pregnant, don't have sex, keep your legs closed" and then turned to her brother and said "just don't get a girl pregnant."

edit on 11/27/2012 by MonkeyFishFrog because: (no reason given)

I happen to believe that it is the responsibility of both male and females. The only problem is most males are unaware of the pregnancy or abortion. Some males are selfish, just like the females and only care for themselves. This day and age, everyone looks out only for themselves. It's become a very selfish world.

The parent who told the girl one thing and the boy another, needs their head examined!

reply to post by Quadrivium


TANTRUM!? LOL! As I have said...You are TOO FUNNY! LOL!

You keep asking me the same questions over and over again. Questions that I have answered in DETAIN. Since you keep asking those question one can only assume that you do not like my answers. LOL!

Too Fuuny! Split Infinity

reply to post by windword


Thank You for pointing out something that is OBVIOUS to most of us yet completely ignored by some. I have answered his questions in DEPTH yet he ignores my answers or perhaps just cannot except the logic.

Abortion is something to be avoided if possible but there are cases where it is the logical course of action. Abortion could be dramatically lowered in it's numbers if simple contraception such as Plan B or the Morning After Pill was made easily and widely available to all Women.

It has never made sense to me that people who are against abortion would not want to lower the number of abortions by making these methods of contraception available especially since a Woman's Right to Choose will not be limited in our Modern Society. Thus is it not preferable to take a pill that will not allow a Fertilized Egg to implant itself in the uterine wall rather than not have this contraception available both easily and widely which would VASTLY Lower the number of abortions?

A Fertilized Egg that has not yet implanted itself in the uterine wall is neither a Child nor is it Sentient. It is just at least two cells that is not much closer to becoming a Child that a Mans Sperm or a Woman Egg. It is time for some of us to Grow Up and make Education and Understanding of a Woman's predicament THE SOLE AND PRIMARY ISSUE.

It is RIDICULOUS for anyone to assign to a Fertilized Egg that has not even implanted itself into the uterine wall the same Value as a Child. It is NOT A CHILD....nor does it have 100% Probability that it will be a Child. It is just a few cells at this point and it loss is not in my and many others view as a great loss. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

TANTRUM!? LOL! As I have said...You are TOO FUNNY! LOL!

You keep asking me the same questions over and over again. Questions that I have answered in DETAIN. Since you keep asking those question one can only assume that you do not like my answers. LOL!

Too Fuuny! Split Infinity

Please show where you have answered those two particular questions for me.
And what is meant by "answered in DETAIN" ?
You seem incoherent at times.
Perhaps it is not that I do not like your answers, perhaps it is that you do not make your points clearly.
Your mind is not an open book. I can not just flip through the pages and find the needed information. You really should try and be more clear.
I have asked this before, is English a secondary language to you? If so, this would explain much. If not, it still would explain much.
Quad

reply to post by Quadrivium

OH MY GOODNESS! A TYPO! LOL! DAMN ME TO HELL...if I believed in Hell. LOL!

DETAIL

Look. Do yourself a favor and just accept that some people do not believe as you do.

When you try to take me on...for whatever reason I have no idea...you just end up looking silly. It does not make you look any smarter nor does it endear yourself to anyone here. I am saying this to you in the hopes that you will take a look at how you are posting so you can realize just how badly it comes across.

I have nothing against you personally nor do I enjoy making you look foolish. I prefer not to. But when anyone here reads the vicious nature of your posts...it comes across making you look desperate to justify your position.
You have a right like anyone else to believe what you will. I have respect for your beliefs. Why not have respect for other beliefs that are unlike yours.

If you cannot respect other beliefs then at the very least respect other peoples rights to have them.
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Split, I am not trying to "take you on". There honestly is no need.
Perhaps you should consider your own post and the way they come across.
You and I were having a nice discussion until you went off on me a few pages back.
I have seen several post by you in other threads where you put those of faith down.
I do not hold any grudges toward you, sometimes I honestly have trouble understanding your grasp on English.
This is why I asked if it was a secondary language to you.
I also do not believe you have answered the two questions I posed. Not directly in response to me, perhaps you responded to someone else's post with the answers?
If you do not want to answer them that is all well and good. No problem
In the future though please consider your own post before lecturing someone else on theirs.
Quad.

reply to post by Quadrivium

WOW! You just can't help it I guess? Can you listen to yourself?

If you were capable of just debating this issue then our conversation would have culminated with a...I don't agree with your beliefs. I believe this. I understand you believe something else.

That would have been it.

Instead you are talking about my use of English...or any of a number of things you have stated that you seem to find fault in. This is RIDICULOUS.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by Bone75
"A life" in the context being used in this thread

Yes, it is a term made up and used by you two in this thread as in excuse to avoid having to defend arguing the implications of granting fertilized eggs the same rights as humans. There is human life and then there is human being which forms one of the examples of human life. Sperm is human life, hair is human life. If you believe a fertilized egg is not merely human life but in actual fact a human being, no different from born human beings, then it shouldn't be too hard to admit this position. There's no use for the term "a human life" because it is just another definition for something that is not the same as a human being.

Tell ya what, you use whatever terms you need to in order to articulate your position, and I'll use mine. Deal?

It would also do you some good to stop trying to anticipate my arguments because you're failing miserably...

If this is your position then clearly you do not believe fertilized eggs are human beings, otherwise you would not be putting so much effort into making up some secondary term for them.

As I have already stated...
A fertilized egg and a human being are two different stages of the same life.
It may hurt your brain to write what you mean, but it just seems to come naturally to me.

A fertilized egg is NOT the same as a human being.

That's right, I said it. Now pounce all you want.

Yet you continue to argue that they should be afforded the same rights as human beings.

Show me where I've argued that even once.

Clearly you haven't thought enough about your position here, maybe you should take some time to re-examine what your argument is here.

Clearly you don't read very well.

Either you believe that you are a human being from the moment an egg is fertilized or you don't, make up your mind.

Personally? I believe the development of human life begins at fertilization, however this is not the consensus of the scientific community where many believe life to be continuous.

It sounds to me like you're the one who needs to make up his mind.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity


When you try to take me on...for whatever reason I have no idea...you just end up looking silly.

Not from where I'm sitting.

I am saying this to you in the hopes that you will take a look at how you are posting so you can realize just how badly it comes across.

You should take your own advice on that one.

I have nothing against you personally nor do I enjoy making you look foolish. I prefer not to.

What's funny is you actually believe this.

Okay you can fire back with the last word, cuz I'm a good sport, but then we need to call a truce. I still have a lot to talk about and I'd hate to see the thread get shut down over senseless bickering.

By the way, why do you oppose abortions?

reply to post by Bone75

I appose late term abortions. This would be at the time when a Fetus has developed a Body as well as a Brain which is capable of limited thought.

As far as a Woman having an abortion when there has not yet been a formation of any viable Human Form such as early in the pregnancy when all that has developed is a clump of cells...I have no issue with abortion.

Still these are just my beliefs and have no bearing on a Woman's Right to Choose. It is not my business or anyone else's business except the Woman who is pregnant.

As far as why I object to late term abortions it is because at such a late stage of development the Child would have developed Sentience to a degree. Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

WOW! You just can't help it I guess? Can you listen to yourself?

If you were capable of just debating this issue then our conversation would have culminated with a...I don't agree with your beliefs. I believe this. I understand you believe something else.

That would have been it.

Instead you are talking about my use of English...or any of a number of things you have stated that you seem to find fault in. This is RIDICULOUS.

Split Infinity

Ok I got it
You don't want to answer the questions.
You could have just said so.
This is not about our "beliefs" this is about facts.
Beliefs should not have a role in this debate.

reply to post by Bone75


Bone,
I don't know if you have read it, but GideonFaith put a good post about this on the last page.
It would seem that some of those high in the pro-choice camp have finally come out and started admitting that they are killing human beings.
I believe they are now admitting it because they know that abortion is a multi million (billion) dollar buisness and they don't have to worry about it going any where.
Quad

reply to post by Quadrivium

You have ignored the facts. I have stated exactly what I believe many times as well as spoken about the Facts that I base those beliefs upon.

You have ignored the Facts...the primary one being that a Fertilized Egg is NOT A CHILD. You have repeatedly stated INCORRECTLY that a Fertilized Egg is a Child.

Here is a REALITY. The VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS as well as the Supreme Court knows this to be a REALITY and have made LAWS based upon this.

Here is another REALITY. What you think about abortion as well as what you think as far as FORCING a Woman to carry an Unwanted Pregnancy is not a LAW nor will it ever become a LAW from this point in time.

Thus what you both think and believe is IRRELEVANT...as it has no bearing upon what the REALITY of what a Woman can or cannot do with her own body.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


If you go back a page on this thread you would see that many major abortion defenders believe a human life begins at conception, abortion is murder or killing of a life, and also how the Supreme Court in Roe vs Wade did not interpret the findings correctly by many doctors. It's very informative website.

reply to post by GideonFaith

No one denies that Life is being killed. What is at issue is whether that Life is Sentient.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Quadrivium

 

You have ignored the facts. I have stated exactly what I believe many times as well as spoken about the Facts that I base those beliefs upon.

You have ignored the Facts...the primary one being that a Fertilized Egg is NOT A CHILD. You have repeatedly stated INCORRECTLY that a Fertilized Egg is a Child.

Here is a REALITY. The VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS as well as the Supreme Court knows this to be a REALITY and have made LAWS based upon this.

Here is another REALITY. What you think about abortion as well as what you think as far as FORCING a Woman to carry an Unwanted Pregnancy is not a LAW nor will it ever become a LAW from this point in time.

Thus what you both think and believe is IRRELEVANT...as it has no bearing upon what the REALITY of what a Woman can or cannot do with her own body.

Split Infinity

Again, I have not said that women should be forced to do anything.
I have not stated that the law should be changed.
I have said that I do not look for it to be changed because it is now big buisness.
I have said it may one day be changed through education. By stating facts such as......
Each individual human has their own unique DNA.
A fertilized egg has it's own unique DNA.
A fertilized egg is the first step in a human beings development.
When a woman has an abortion she is removing a human life.
These are all facts. No beliefs required.
Quad

reply to post by Quadrivium

As I have stated repeatedly...and this is also the position of the Supreme Court...a Fertilized Egg has not yet developed or does it have 100% Probability of developing into a Human Life nor can it be called a Human Life.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by windword

There is no such thing as "new" life. There is no markers for the beginning of a "new" life. There is no such thing as a "new" fairy. Life is a continuous cycle.

That's not to say that there is unlife in conception, it's just that's there's a chemical reaction that is "transforming" an already existent presence of life, and it's continuing biological mechanisms.

Could you do us all a favor and post one of those illustrations of the human life cycle? I've heard 2 or 3 of you refer to this cycle, so I was hoping maybe you could give us something to look at and a brief summary of how this cycle works. The first picture your Yale Professor refers to would be ideal, but if you can't find that particular image, I'm sure something close would be fine.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Bone75

 

I appose late term abortions. This would be at the time when a Fetus has developed a Body as well as a Brain which is capable of limited thought.

As far as a Woman having an abortion when there has not yet been a formation of any viable Human Form such as early in the pregnancy when all that has developed is a clump of cells...I have no issue with abortion.

Still these are just my beliefs and have no bearing on a Woman's Right to Choose. It is not my business or anyone else's business except the Woman who is pregnant.

As far as why I object to late term abortions it is because at such a late stage of development the Child would have developed Sentience to a degree. Split Infinity

Well I hate to harp on this but that's not what you said a few pages back...

Originally posted by Split Infinity
I have told you that I am not in favor of any abortions save Rape, Incest or in the case that it endangers the Woman's Health.

Am I misinterpreting this quote because it seems pretty straight forward to me?

reply to post by Bone75

I think that I should have made clear that I do not consider the removal of a clump of cells an issue. I am not in favor of abortions that are of mid to late term fetus development.

Split Infinity