Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind

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posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by GideonFaith

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GideonFaith
 





Pro-Choice is just another selfish act. No matter how you spin it.


Pro-choice is not an act. It's a political position.


I don't see political in these definitions. I do see an organization or pressure group supporting the right of a woman to have an abortion. I see Pro-Choice and abortion as being a selfish action.


pro-choice (pr-chois) adj. Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term. pro-choicer n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

pro-choice
adj
(Sociology) (of an organization, pressure group, etc.) supporting the right of a woman to have an abortion

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
www.thefreedictionary.com...


The Republican Party's official stance on abortion:

THE SANCTITY AND DIGNITY OF HUMAN LIFE Faithful to the "self-evident" truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment's protections apply to unborn children.................
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...



The Democratic Party's stance on abortion:

The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right. Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way. We also recognize that health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. We strongly and unequivocally support a woman's decision to have a child by providing affordable health care and ensuring the availability of and access to programs that help women during pregnancy and after the birth of a child, including caring adoption programs.
www.issues2000.org...


Since the Republican party and the Democratic party are both political parties with opposing political positions on how the governmental PTB should interfere with a woman and her doctor, her privacy and her right to make reproductive choices over her body's biological programming, then "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-life" are indeed political positions.



I see Pro-Choice and abortion as being a selfish action.


Why do women or couples choose to have children? Because they selfishly want them! There is no other reason to have children, other than selfish desires.

I see the pro-life position as extremely selfish. The pro-life position isn't content to allow others to have their own morality. They want to selfishly force their opinion of what morality is onto others. They know that they can't convert everyone to their philosophy so they selfishly are trying to force it onto others through legislation.



edit on 28-11-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by GideonFaith

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GideonFaith
 





Pro-Choice is just another selfish act. No matter how you spin it.


Pro-choice is not an act. It's a political position.


I don't see political in these definitions. I do see an organization or pressure group supporting the right of a woman to have an abortion. I see Pro-Choice and abortion as being a selfish action.


pro-choice (pr-chois) adj. Favoring or supporting the legal right of women and girls to choose whether or not to continue a pregnancy to term. pro-choicer n.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2009. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

pro-choice
adj
(Sociology) (of an organization, pressure group, etc.) supporting the right of a woman to have an abortion

Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003
www.thefreedictionary.com...


The Republican Party's official stance on abortion:

THE SANCTITY AND DIGNITY OF HUMAN LIFE Faithful to the "self-evident" truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed. We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment's protections apply to unborn children.................
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...



The Democratic Party's stance on abortion:

The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right. Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way. We also recognize that health care and education help reduce the number of unintended pregnancies and thereby also reduce the need for abortions. We strongly and unequivocally support a woman's decision to have a child by providing affordable health care and ensuring the availability of and access to programs that help women during pregnancy and after the birth of a child, including caring adoption programs.
www.issues2000.org...


Since the Republican party and the Democratic party are both political parties with opposing political positions on how the governmental PTB should interfere with a woman and her doctor, her privacy and her right to make reproductive choices over her body's biological programming, then "Pro-Choice" and "Pro-life" are indeed political positions.



I see Pro-Choice and abortion as being a selfish action.


Why do women or couples choose to have children? Because they selfishly want them! There is no other reason to have children, other than selfish desires.

I see the pro-life position as extremely selfish. The pro-life position isn't content to allow others to have their own morality. They want to selfishly force their opinion of what morality is onto others. They know that they can't convert everyone to their philosophy so they selfishly are trying to force it onto others through legislation.



edit on 28-11-2012 by windword because: (no reason given)


Resorting to blogs as a fact checker now!
You ridiculed me for not using fact checker.
So Hilarious!!


In life, we can make just about anything political. What about a person who is neither a Republican or Democrat? Where are their views? Since you have all of us pegged as either Republican or Democrat.

I think you are way off base about anyone who wants a child as being selfish. It is one of the least selfish acts a woman can make. What has this got to do with abortion, I have no clue? So we are going off topic again and again.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I am just stating that abortion is murder and a human life begins at conception, which many major abortion defenders agree with. Surprisingly so, but they do agree. The liberals and democrats didn't push selfishly forcing legislation through with Roe vs Wade? Maybe you need to read what Norma McCorvey has to say about what really happened during the time of Roe vs Wade.

You keep taking it off topic to gain some religious or political issue with anything you can grasp onto, when it's neither.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 02:53 PM
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reply to post by GideonFaith
 


You are either really obtuse and dense or you are purposefully trying to derail this thread, which is titled: Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind.
It's not entitled "Life begins at Conception" or "Abortion is Selfish."

From the OP:



It is sad to see that abortion had became the second next issue that would be critical to the presidential election, and see how such an issue had been MISUSED by both religions and politicians to divide the nation of the ignorant and the faithful to achieve their personal glory and agendas.

Mankind had been given the gift of free will by our common Creator. When a woman is pregnant, it is her free will and responsibility over the life of the child inside her.


You are the one that said abortion is not a political subject. But you're wrong. It is a political subject.

I don't know what problem you have with links that I provided, showing the "official" party platforms on the subject of abortion. They are real, and believe it or not, this past election was decided by women, who were scared to pieces by the "official" GOP stance on woman's rights. It is a political subject. If it weren't. I wouldn't care what religious nut jobs and misogynous men think about woman's choices.

Maybe if the GOP idiots that tried to redefine "legitimate" rape in order to stop rape victims from accessing abortion, or ignorantly claiming that real rape victims don't get pregnant, or that rape is God's will, they wouldn't have lost to Obama.

You keep saying that abortion isn't a religious subject, but, in order to prove your uneducated opinion, you link a "pro-life" page filled with lies, misinformation, quotes that are taken out of context and opinions opined by high profile religious pundits and GOP affiliates, that aren't supported by facts.

When you are presented with scientific data that challenges you simplistic "life fairy" view of life magically starting at some point, you discount it, insinuating that people who believe "text books" and left wing university professors are gullible and naive.

Where did you get your PHD in Biology, that you can ignore the work of accepted science?



I think you are way off base about anyone who wants a child as being selfish. It is one of the least selfish acts a woman can make. What has this got to do with abortion, I have no clue? So we are going off topic again and again.


Are you having a hard time following a train of thought? You are the one that said "Abortion is a selfish act." I counter that by saying that having children is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are no other reason to have kids than selfish ones. NONE!



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GideonFaith
 




You are either really obtuse and dense or you are purposefully trying to derail this thread, which is titled: Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind.
It's not entitled "Life begins at Conception" or "Abortion is Selfish."

From the OP:


Resorting to name calling, so mature! I think that's a violation on ATS.

It's a debate thread where abortion is debated and also whether it should be free will and responsibility of women, not mankind is debated. I didn't ask you to respond to my post, you chose too.


You are the one that said abortion is not a political subject. But you're wrong. It is a political subject.


What I said was that Pro-Choice definitions does not include political positions in it. You choose for it to be a political issue. It's actually an organization of people who believe in the right for a woman to choose abortion or not. Nothing political there, unless you choose to make it political.


I don't know what problem you have with links that I provided, showing the "official" party platforms on the subject of abortion.


The link was from a blog, nothing scientific about that. Isn't that what you keep telling me?



You keep saying that abortion isn't a religious subject, but, in order to prove your uneducated opinion, you link a "pro-life" page filled with lies, misinformation, quotes that are taken out of context and opinions opined by high profile religious pundits and GOP affiliates, that aren't supported by facts.


Personally attacking me again, wow!


It's the same as politics, religion has nothing to do with it, unless you choose for it to be an issue. Nothing I posted had religion in it from the webpage Abort73. Keep talking.


When you are presented with sientific data that challenges you simplistic "life fairy" view of life magically starting at some point, you discount it, insinuating that people who believe "text books" and left wing university professors are gullible and naive.


Another personal attack, you are on a roll Windword.

You were the one who stated the webpage Abort73 was all right wing, GOP, etc. I was stating the textbooks and professors are not always right. Yes, Yale is a left wing university. That is all I said. I didn't say anything about being gullible or naive. Your problem is that maybe you can't accept that?


Where did you get your PHD in Biology, that you can ignore the work of accepted science?


Another attack?

Accepted science depends on the scientist you are looking at. There are views from both sides. I can see you look at a left wing or liberal scientist. I look more to the right wing or libertarian scientist.



I think you are way off base about anyone who wants a child as being selfish. It is one of the least selfish acts a woman can make. What has this got to do with abortion, I have no clue? So we are going off topic again and again.



Are you having a hard time following a train of thought? You are the one that said "Abortion is a selfish act." I counter that by saying that having children is the most selfish thing anyone can do. There are no other reason to have kids than selfish ones. NONE!


You love personally attacking me. How many times did you attack me in this post? Let's see I think that makes 5.


When the personal attacks stop and you can keep my words straight (quit changing my wording or changing them to fit your agenda), we can resume a mature conversation.

GideonFaith



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by GideonFaith
Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GideonFaith
 




You are either really obtuse and dense or you are purposefully trying to derail this thread, which is titled: Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind.
It's not entitled "Life begins at Conception" or "Abortion is Selfish."

From the OP:


Resorting to name calling, so mature! I think that's a violation on ATS.


NAH! Name calling would be me calling someone a "poopy head" or some such thing. I merely expressed an observation as to your debating tactics. You are either "annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand", or you're purposefully trying to derail the thread topic.

This observation is based on your inability stay on topic, using a bait and switch tactic. For example:

Me:

You are the one that said abortion is not a political subject. But you're wrong. It is a political subject.

You:


What I said was that Pro-Choice definitions does not include political positions in it. You choose for it to be a political issue. It's actually an organization of people who believe in the right for a woman to choose abortion or not. Nothing political there, unless you choose to make it political.


No. This is what you actually said:



I don't see political in these definitions. I do see an organization or pressure group supporting the right of a woman to have an abortion.


Then I showed you that both political parties have chosen platforms on this very subject, proving that it is indeed a political topic. You rejected that info, saying


The link was from a blog, nothing scientific about that. Isn't that what you keep telling me?


You don't need a degree in science to access the public announcement of political parties' platform. But it seems that you reject the truth of the matter because it's source doesn't come from a scientific peer reviewed thesis!?! Bait and switch tactics.


It's the same as politics, religion has nothing to do with it, unless you choose for it to be an issue. Nothing I posted had religion in it from the webpage Abort73. Keep talking.


Already answered. Your sources are religiously and politically motivated, and are biased. This observation is based on their own bios!


It's a debate thread where abortion is debated and also whether it should be free will and responsibility of women, not mankind is debated.


Glad that you finally acknowledged that! Yet, you haven't addressed a woman's free will and her legal rights. You have myopically called women who get pregnant "stupid," and those who choose abortion "murderers." All the while, you claim life miraculously starts at conception.

The fact that you need to be constantly corrected and need to be reminded to keep on topic exemplifies your obtuse qualities. The fact that you keep reading personal attacks into my answers, me making you a victim, indicates some passive aggressive behavior as well.

PETA may call you a "murderer" for eating meat, fish or fowl, all sentient, living beings. Are you a murderer? Have you ever killed on purpose, or benefited from the murder of another living being? Don't answer that, because it may be embarrassing for you.


I didn't ask you to respond to my post, you chose too.


Your posts beg for a challenge. If not me, who? I'm up for the challenge.



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by windword

You are either really obtuse and dense or you are purposefully trying to derail this thread, which is titled: Abortion - Free Will and Responsibility of Women, NOT Mankind.
It's not entitled "Life begins at Conception" or "Abortion is Selfish."




The fact that you need to be constantly corrected and need to be reminded to keep on topic exemplifies your obtuse qualities. The fact that you keep reading personal attacks into my answers, me making you a victim, indicates some passive aggressive behavior as well.


We're on page 35 of this thread and you're just now complaining about going off topic?
edit on 28-11-2012 by Bone75 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 28 2012 @ 08:24 PM
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This thread is now closed for review...





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