Enoch, Elijah, Jesus and Psalm 91

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posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:39 AM
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People familiar with their bible would know that Enoch and Elijah are unique in that they never died a physical death on earth but rather were lifted up supernaturally.


...And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.
-Genesis 5:24


The same is echoed even in the Koran, where Enoch is known as Idris.

He was a man of truth (and sincerity), (and) a prophet: And We raised him to a lofty station.
-Koran 19:56-57


We know that Elijah also was lifted up to heaven
"...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

With Enoch and Elijah, the bible establishes the concept of a man being lifted up to heaven.


However, the Koran states that a third man, Jesus was also lifted up to heaven.


"That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."
-Koran 4:156-159



Basically, those who tried to kill Jesus were fooled into thinking they did so... but in reality, Jesus was lifted up, like Enoch and Elijah before he was captured/crucified.

The Islamic account of Jesus directly opposes the crucifixion story and has been a point of contention between Christians and Muslims. But what if the bible actually supports Islams claim that Jesus was indeed lifted up and was saved from crucifixion?

Lets have a look-
During Jesus temptation, Satan suggests that Jesus jump off the highest point of the temple and quotes a scripture...
"He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone."

Satan used scripture to basically reassure Jesus that he would be lifted up by angels so that even his feet wont touch a stone on the ground below. This establishes that Jesus was the subject of this particular psalm.

Jesus did not deny this scripture, but instead countered Satan by bringing up another scripture which said God should not be tested. With this we can deduce that Jesus knew that the scripture Satan was quoting referred to him.

The scripture that Satan quoted was Psalm 91.


Whoever dwells in the shelter of the Most High
will rest in the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the Lord, “He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust.”
3 Surely he will save you
from the fowler’s snare
and from the deadly pestilence.
4 He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.
5 You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday.
7 A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.
8 You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked.
9 If you say, “The Lord is my refuge,”
and you make the Most High your dwelling,
10 no harm will overtake you,
no disaster will come near your tent.
11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;
12 they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.



I know for a fact that if Psalm 91 ended with "him" being crucified or given to his enemies, Christians would be waving it all around as final and conclusive proof that this Psalm was a direct prophecy that Jesus would be crucifed. However, Psalm 91 ends in favor of the Islamic view that Jesus was lifted up and saved...


13 You will tread on the lion and the cobra;
you will trample the great lion and the serpent.
14 “Because he loves me,” says the Lord, “I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.

16 With long life I will satisfy him
and show him my salvation.”


The underlined part talks about him calling on God.. and God answering him by rescuing and protecting him Now, we all know that Jesus did call on God for "the cup to pass from him" moments before his arrest. So considering Psalm 91 pertains to Jesus, we can conclude the following about Jesus-

-Jesus called on God
-God answered Jesus
-God rescued Jesus
-God protected Jesus
-God delivered Jesus
-no harm overtook Jesus
-no disaster came near Jesus
-God commanded his angels concerning Jesus to guard Jesus
-The angels lifted Jesus up in their hands
-Jesus never struck his foot against the stones below

This confirms Islams teaching that Jesus was lifted up to heaven... and the part about his feet not touching the stones below indicates he could not have been killed and buried.

All this of directly contradicts the account of Jesus crucifixion....And Psalm 91 shows us that Jesus was the third person after Enoch and Elijah to be "lifted up" to heaven.


edit on 2-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Dear sk0rpi0n,

"Killed" what an odd concept for a believer in eternal life. Killed does not means ceased to exist, it means that they have left the physical body. Jesus left his physical body for at least three days. Enoch and Elijah may have left this earth; but, it does not mean they retained their physical bodies, only that they were not to be found here.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:04 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 



"Killed" what an odd concept for a believer in eternal life. Killed does not means ceased to exist, it means that they have left the physical body. Jesus left his physical body for at least three days. Enoch and Elijah may have left this earth; but, it does not mean they retained their physical bodies, only that they were not to be found here.


"Killed" refers to Jesus' crucifixion, regardless of him coming back to life 3 days later.

Psalm 91 contests that Jesus was even killed.

Jesus, like Enoch and Elijah.... was also lifted up bodily.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:13 AM
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Just a quick comment. Psalm 91 starts with the word "Whoever." That makes it hard for me to believe that it was referring to Jesus. And if it was referring to others as well, shouldn't they all be rescued from death? There's no evidence for that. I don't think the Psalm 91 argument is convincing, especially since there are Old Testament verses referring to the sacrifice, and the lamb, etc.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



I don't think the Psalm 91 argument is convincing, especially since there are Old Testament verses referring to the sacrifice, and the lamb, etc.


The only thing there is about sacrifices in the OT is about animal sacrifice.... there is nothing about human sacrifice... which Christians claim Jesus was.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by charles1952
 



Psalm 91 starts with the word "Whoever." That makes it hard for me to believe that it was referring to Jesus.


We can conclude that it was referring to Jesus because Satan quoted the same Psalm to Jesus, meaning the Psalm was referring to Jesus.

Jesus did not contest that, but simply raised another scripture, i.e - that God should not be tested.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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Scorpion , here comes the sting !!!!reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 
Isaiah chapter 53 does talk of the sacrifice and DEATH of Jesus Christ .
He was raised up the 3rd day after preaching in Hell .
But not only was Jesus raised up on the 3rd day but the graves of the first fruit was also opened and people saw those dead walk around Jeruselam for a period of about 2 weeks ..
God stated it is appointed for every man to die the 1st death . Enoch and Elijah will die in the streets of Jeruselam at the hands of the Beast also .



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 


When its convenient for a scripture to apply to Jesus, it is applied to Jesus.
When its inconvenient for a scripture to apply to Jesus, it isn't applied to Jesus.

I'm quite familiar with how Christians cherry pick scriptures that can be applied to Jesus.

I didn't write Psalm 91. We do see that Jesus acknowledges Psalm 91 as referring to him, which is why he didn't contest it when Satan brought it up. And Psalm 91 ends with Jesus being saved and lifted up.

edit on 2-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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John 10:14-18

14“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”


How would these verses fit into your scenario?
From a Christian perspective only, God did protect Jesus several times. But Jesus body died by his own choosing in submission to God's will.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Jesus is the Lamb there is no other anywhere spoken of as the Lamb . Why don't you admit that you and your teacher are wrong . Your indoctriunation is faulty .You are failing at trying to say that the bible supports the Koran or a dispicable figure such as Mohammad bringing a new religion .
Jealousy is the father of Islam .



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Jesus asked His Father in the garden if He would let the cup pass from Him, then said not My will, but your will be done. He also told His disciples that His body would be broken and His blood shed for the remission of sins. He also said He would die and after 3 days and 3 nights would rise from the dead. Jesus also said in Revelation that He died.

Jesus isn't a liar.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by charles1952
 



Psalm 91 starts with the word "Whoever." That makes it hard for me to believe that it was referring to Jesus.


We can conclude that it was referring to Jesus because Satan quoted the same Psalm to Jesus, meaning the Psalm was referring to Jesus.

Jesus did not contest that, but simply raised another scripture, i.e - that God should not be tested.



Satan also twisted the scripture adding 4 words: "Lest at any time".



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




Jesus asked His Father in the garden if He would let the cup pass from Him, then said not My will, but your will be done.


What Christians dont get is that it was the Fathers will that Jesus be saved.


Jesus also said in Revelation that He died.


Then it means its inconsistent with prophecies about Jesus being saved.

Same goes for Psalm 34



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


There are no prophecies about Him being saved. He was the Passover Lamb for the sins of man. It wasn't the Father's will for Him to be saved, in fact in Isaiah it says it "pleased" the Father to sacrifice His Son. The entire purpose was for the unblemished lamb to die for the sins of God's people, saving Him from that would completely negate that purpose.

Psalm 34 isn't a crucifixion prophecy, refer to Psalm 22 and Isaiah 52:12-53 for those.
edit on 2-11-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 




He was the Passover Lamb for the sins of man. It wasn't the Father's will for Him to be saved, in fact in Isaiah it says it "pleased" the Father to sacrifice His Son.


When did God ever sanction human sacrifice? When?




The entire purpose was for the unblemished lamb to die for the sins of God's people, saving Him from that would completely negate that purpose.


At no point during Jesus' whole arrest / trial / execution narrative is it ever described as a sin sacrifice.



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Why would Pilate or Herod know Christ was giving His life freely for man's sins? And you should see what Christ said in the Book of Matthew at the last supper. Paul was also an expert in the law and prophets as a Pharisee, refer to his statement in 1 Corinthians chapter 15.

Dude, read Isaiah 52:12-53.
edit on 2-11-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


A man who is without the Holy Spirit of Truth and Wisdom cannot properly discern the Holy Scriptures,

sk0rpi0n, your Spirit is not completely in line with the Holy Spirit,

I ask anybody who reads this thread to read the scriptures and come to your own conclusions, and don't let somebody who's interpreting them from a false perspective (Muslim) cast doubt on the True meaning of the Word of God,

God bless, with Love, in Jesus,

Amen



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 12:29 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





When did God ever sanction human sacrifice? When?


Exactly! And, burnt offerings were done ritualistically, by holy men, which the lord found "pleasing." They weren't performed by a judicial system, enemy soldiers and an angry mob. If Jesus was killed on the cross, it was murder, not a sanctified human sacrifice,



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


You are debating with the true seed of Ishmael and the same inability to reason . They rule like wild ass of men and think that way also .
Nowhere in the bible is there a mention of Islam . But there is a place for it . On the opposite side of Jesus in the saving of Israel and Armageddon .
Let him carry out his jo b .



posted on Nov, 2 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


You evidently are sorely lacking in your knowledge of the bible .You might want to read Genesis where Abraham was asked to offer Isaac on Mount Moriah . God did substitute a Ram when he read in Abraham's heart that he was actually going to sacrifice Isaac his only son having sent Ishmael away . God did stop the actual sacrifice that time .
This was not a random sinister thing that God did to Abraham ,it was a test and justification for Gods own ultimate sacrifice of His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ for the remission of sin and Grace and Mercy .

The blood sacrifice of Jesus the Lamb of God was indeed a pouring out of the life blood of Jesus and Jesus did pass from the living to death . The Romans didn't care about who Jesus was they were killing machines . The Cross was the end . The spear up through his chest under the ribs to the pericardium sack would always show water mixed with blood if you hit the heart . But Jesus was already dead .
The scripture where Jesus cried E'-li, E'-li, la-ma sab- bach'-tha-ni? My God ,my God , why have thou forsaken me? . This should tell you the Father could not have saved his Son Jesus alive . But it would not work with what your Imam told you .





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