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Enoch, Elijah, Jesus and Psalm 91

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posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 05:54 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



Jesus was as dead as Mohammad is to day but God raised him up on the third day . What ever happened to Mohammad ? He turned to dust . The Muslims have nothing to be happy about for there is nothing in Psalms chapter 91 referencing anything remotely like Islam .


a) Mohammad turned to dust just like all those other biblical figures... Abraham, Moses, David and all the other prophets. So what?

b) Psalm 91 actually points to the Islamic view of Jesus, that he was saved from crucifixion.
Psalm 91 contradicts the Christian view that Jesus was captured and crucified




posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by pthena
 



They hold to a view of a god who delighted in killing his own son ( for the sake of the blessed self identified believers ).


The only reason why they believe that is because of instances in the old testament era where animal sacrifice was practiced for the forgiving of sins.

Interestingly, even in the old testament, we read that God says "mercy is better than sacrifice".
Even Jesus teaches in the Lords prayer "forgive us as we forgive those who sin against us.
Interesting how Jesus himself did not teach the very blood sacrifice theology which Christians use to justify the belief that Jesus had to be sacrificed for the sins of mankind.


Can you provide the quote from Koran that says that God can forgive anyone He wants to, and isn't compelled by any requirement for blood sacrifice?


Heres what I found using google search


Their meat will not reach Allah , nor will their blood, but what reaches Him is piety from you.Thus have We subjected them to you that you may glorify Allah for that (to) which He has guided you; and give good tidings to the doers of good.
-Koran 22:37


Islam also teaches that one should forgive as they would like to be forgiven.


And let not those of virtue among you and wealth swear not to give (aid) to their relatives and the needy and the emigrants for the cause of Allah , and let them pardon and overlook. Would you not like that Allah should forgive you? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
-Koran 24:22



edit on 4-11-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:46 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


David wrote Psalms 91 . He was talking about the LORD protecting him not the Father protecting the Lord Jesus . It has absolutely nothing to do about the crucifixion .
Maybe you can twist your fingers, wring your hands , cross your eyes and spit and you still won't keep Jesus alive. He died on the cross and if that makes the Koran a big lie then you may want to give it up . But no doubt you will continue to believe what you want .. Your Mahdi or Mohammed will not be coming back and will not pray in front of Jesus when he comes back . Jesus is the only way to God John 14 verse 6 . Written long before Mohammad started his rampage .



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Islam also teaches you shall kill the Infidel where ever you find him .



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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reply to post by SimonPeter
 



David wrote Psalms 91 . He was talking about the LORD protecting him not the Father protecting the Lord Jesus . It has absolutely nothing to do about the crucifixion .


Jesus acknowledged that Psalm 91 was written about him. So we can confirm that Psalm 91 was talking about Jesus.

As always, when its convenient to apply a psalm to David, its applied to David.
When its convenient to apply a psalm to Jesus, its applied to Jesus.
Sorry, but you cant have your cakes and eat it too.


Now, if you are telling me that all Psalms apply to David, then it means David is also a "begotten" son of God, and this basically scraps John 3:16s claim about Jesus being the only begotten son of God.

David was a begotten son of God



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 08:38 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 




Originally posted by skOrpiOn

The same is echoed even in the Koran, where Enoch is known as Idris.

He was a man of truth (and sincerity), (and) a prophet: And We raised him to a lofty station.
-Koran 19:56-57

We know that Elijah also was lifted up to heaven
"...and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

With Enoch and Elijah, the bible establishes the concept of a man being lifted up to heaven.


However, the Koran states that a third man, Jesus was also lifted up to heaven.


"That they said (in boast): 'We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.' But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them."
-Koran 4:156-159



Basically, those who tried to kill Jesus were fooled into thinking they did so... but in reality, Jesus was lifted up, like Enoch and Elijah before he was captured/crucified.

The Islamic account of Jesus directly opposes the crucifixion story and has been a point of contention between Christians and Muslims. But what if the bible actually supports Islams claim that Jesus was indeed lifted up and was saved from crucifixion?




Interesting…


But the problem is, there’s a huge amount of evidence, to support Jesus crucifixion.


Firstly, Jesus words from the Gospels



Matthew 20:18-19
“We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”




John 8:28
So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me.”



And secondly, here are just a few historic accounts…



“Jesus, while alive, was of no assistance to himself, but that he arose after death and exhibited the marks of his punishment, and showed how his hands had been pierced by nails." (Roman author Phlegon, 117-38 AD)





"What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King?" (letter of Mara Bar-Serapion" in 73 AD)





"Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him [Jesus] to the cross” (Josephus, 37-100 AD)





"a wise man who was called Jesus . . . Pilate condemned him to be condemned and to die." (Roman historian, Cornelius Tacitus 55-117 AD)





"[A]s the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced a new cult into the world," (Lucian, born 120 AD)





"when discussing the darkness which fell upon the land during the crucifixion of Christ," it was an eclipse. (Julius Africanus, quoting Thallus in 221 AD)



And lastly, Muhammad was born between – 570 –632 AD !!!


IMO, that’s just way too much of a time gap....


- JC



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 10:57 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 




the problem is, there’s a huge amount of evidence, to support Jesus crucifixion.


Either we go with secular historical accounts that Jesus was crucified.... or we go with the biblical premise that God saved Jesus.....as Psalms 91 states.

If Jesus was indeed crucified, then it means that the parts about God saving the ones who call on him and acknowledging his name are FALSE. If so, what other parts about the bible are false?

Also, so what if Mohammad existed a few centuries after the bible was written. Does it mean everything which came after the bible is false?



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 11:19 AM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by logical7
 

I don't know where you got your information from . When you pierce the heart you have opened up a reservoir of blood and it will run out along with the water around the heart . .

was it heart or just side of chest??
N show me how do you pierce the heart of person hanging above the head of the soldier with the ribs preventing it.



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





Originally posted by skOrpiOn[/I]
Either we go with secular historical accounts that Jesus was crucified.... or we go with the biblical premise that God saved Jesus.....as Psalms 91 states.


The problem with your premise, is that not all of the prophecies regarding Jesus, are covered in one complete Psalm (i.e. Psalm 91) or verse etc

And there are other verses, which mention elements of the crucifixion. I.e. Isaiah 53…

And much depends on the nature, of how “God saved Jesus“ i.e. Resurrection, Ascension, or both?




Originally posted by skOrpiOn[/I]
If Jesus was indeed crucified, then it means that the parts about God saving the ones who call on him and acknowledging his name are FALSE. If so, what other parts about the bible are false?


Well, if I’m restricted to only one Psalm ((i.e. Psalm 91) then that puts me in a difficult position.

But here’s something for you to consider…


Psalm 91:14-15
14 “Because he loves me,” says the Lord, “I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.


The verses above could be referring to Jesus Crucifixion, Resurrection and ultimate ascension (lifted up to heaven) A lot depends on how you interpret the verses.

For example…

“Rescue him” implies that He was in some danger…

“be with him in trouble” could be referring to the Crucifixion.

And “I will deliver him…” could quite easily be referring to His Resurrection and the “…and honor him.” part, could be referring to His ultimate ascension, as recorded in the 4 Gospels.



Originally posted by skOrpiOn[/I]
Also, so what if Mohammad existed a few centuries after the bible was written. Does it mean everything which came after the bible is false?



Not at all…but in regards to the crucifixion, it makes it highly unlikely that it is true, especially when weighed up against other historical accounts.


And BTW… it’s not a “few centuries”…it’s 5 and a half centuries later!!!


- JC



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 



The problem with your premise, is that not all of the prophecies regarding Jesus, are covered in one complete Psalm (i.e. Psalm 91) or verse etc


My premise is that God rescues those who call on him. This theme is persistent throughout the bible. Psalm 91 is just one example. Why should Jesus be an exception?


And there are other verses, which mention elements of the crucifixion. I.e. Isaiah 53…

Interpretations of OT scriptures are subject to opinions and biases.


The verses above could be referring to Jesus Crucifixion, Resurrection and ultimate ascension (lifted up to heaven) A lot depends on how you interpret the verses.


Its all about interpretation.

"Rescue him" could also mean that Jesus was rescued by being "lifted up" like Enoch or Elijah.

"Be with him in trouble"... could also mean God was with Jesus when he prayed before his capture...and then answered the



posted on Nov, 4 2012 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Islam also teaches you shall kill the Infidel where ever you find him .

190. And fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not
commit aggression; God does not love
the aggressors.
191. And kill them wherever you overtake them, and expel them from
where they had expelled you.
Oppression is more serious than
murder. But do not fight them at the
Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you
there. If they fight you, then kill them. Such is the retribution of the
disbelievers.
192. But if they cease, then God is Forgiving and Merciful.
193. And fight them until there is no oppression, and worship becomes
devoted to God alone. But if they
cease, then let there be no hostility
except against the oppressors.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by logical7

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


Islam also teaches you shall kill the Infidel where ever you find him .

190. And fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not
commit aggression; God does not love
the aggressors.
191. And kill them wherever you overtake them, and expel them from
where they had expelled you.
Oppression is more serious than
murder. But do not fight them at the
Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you
there. If they fight you, then kill them. Such is the retribution of the
disbelievers.
192. But if they cease, then God is Forgiving and Merciful.
193. And fight them until there is no oppression, and worship becomes
devoted to God alone. But if they
cease, then let there be no hostility
except against the oppressors.


Yeah but, Jesus doesn't teach any of that. According to the Torah and the 10 commandments, oppression doesn't even make the list, but "you shall not murder" is #6 so this is another lie from Muhammad. Slavery is oppression, and God did allow slavery and nothing is more oppressive than someone that owns you like a piece of property and you are not free. Jesus teaches us that we may be killed for his namesake (persecution), but we are not to resist if they do persecute us for his namesake, and we are his temples and those who destroy us, he will destroy them.



posted on Nov, 5 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





Originally posted by skOrpiOn[/I]
My premise is that God rescues those who call on him. This theme is persistent throughout the bible. Psalm 91 is just one example. Why should Jesus be an exception?


But your assuming the “How” of God rescuing Jesus, and ignoring other Psalms, which IMO, talk about His crucifixion. And added to all that, you have the many historic accounts, which provide further evidence, that Jesus was crucified.



Originally posted by skOrpiOn[/I]
Interpretations of OT scriptures are subject to opinions and biases.


Yeah I guess so… but your own bias is showing as well, by trying to restrict everything regarding Jesus Ascension, Crucifixion, or both, onto just 1 Psalm, and expecting everyone else, to do the same thing!

I know Muslims believe in the prophets of the Old Testament, so surely they should take other verses into consideration…rather than just narrowly focusing on one verse, to provide the answer.


- JC



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



Yeah but, Jesus doesn't teach any of
that. According to the Torah and the
10 commandments, oppression
doesn't even make the list, but "you
shall not murder" is #6 so this is
another lie from Muhammad. Slavery is oppression, and God did allow slavery
and nothing is more oppressive than
someone that owns you like a piece of
property and you are not free. Jesus
teaches us that we may be killed for
his namesake (persecution), but we are not to resist if they do persecute us
for his namesake, and we are his
temples and those who destroy us, he
will destroy them.

Jesus pbuh said to buy a sword even by selling one's cloak. If that wasnt for self defense then what else it was for?
And as far as i know, he dint say that about slavery, it was paul. Maybe you could show me where he said it.
Ya he said love your enemies but does that mean i stand and let someone stick a sword through me?? Doesnt that just means that i shouldnt hate them or have malice towards them? Rather be good no matter how they treat me back.
Oppression is injustice and wrong, dint he threw out the money changers, wasnt that an act of violence.
And lastly, ya message of Jesus pbuh was mostly of peace and love pre ascension. but his work is not over and when he returns, he wouldnt be that peaceful, that doesnt means he wouldnt follow his own teaching, it just means circumstances define behaviour and he never taught to behave blindly. And when he returns who would be ready to join him? peace loving, other cheek giving christians, or ready to die for God, sword ready even by selling cloaks muslims as instructed by him?
edit on 6-11-2012 by logical7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 09:05 AM
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reply to post by logical7
 



Jesus pbuh said to buy a sword even by selling one's cloak. If that wasn't for self defense then what else it was for?


It was to fulfill prophecy concerning Christ's end when he was going to be condemned as a criminal, if you read later on in the passage.


Luke 22:35-38


35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?”

So they said, “Nothing.”

36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors.’ For the things concerning Me have an end.”

38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.”

And He said to them, “It is enough.”


He had to be seen as a criminal, and he was accused by the jews of sedition which was the only way they could get Rome to crucify him because their trial by the Sanhedrin was held in the middle of the night and therefore illegal. He was not advocating anyone perpetrate violence even for his own sake.


Matthew 26:50-55

50 But Jesus said to him, “Friend, why have you come?”

Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and took Him. 51 And suddenly, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand and drew his sword, struck the servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.

52 But Jesus said to him, “Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and He will provide Me with more than twelve legions of angels? 54 How then could the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must happen thus?”

55 In that hour Jesus said to the multitudes, “Have you come out, as against a robber, with swords and clubs to take Me? I sat daily with you, teaching in the temple, and you did not seize Me. 56 But all this was done that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.”




Ya he said love your enemies but does that mean i stand and let someone stick a sword through me?? Doesnt that just means that i shouldnt hate them or have malice towards them? Rather be good no matter how they treat me back.


Matthew 5:38-42

38

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.


Apostle Steven didn't resist when the pharisees had him stoned to death, Paul was there watching it the day Steven died. Apostle Barnabas was taken and skinned alive and he didn't resist. Being a follower of Christ is about going above and beyond the call of duty, even loving not your own life even to the death. Violence is not our right to take upon another, that is for God to avenge (Deut.:32-35)



Oppression is injustice and wrong, dint he threw out the money changers, wasnt that an act of violence.


He kicked over their tables and whipped them, but he was performing the function of the High Priest, he was cleaning out the temple and getting rid of the iniquity being done in the temple before Passover sacrifice (his crucifiction). That last week when the people were making ready for Passover, he began to fulfill all the duties of the High Priest even though he was not a Levite, he is Melchizidek which is the Highest Order and highest priest of Heaven.




And lastly, ya message of Jesus pbuh was mostly of peace and love pre ascension. but his work is not over and when he returns, he wouldnt be that peaceful, that doesnt means he wouldnt follow his own teaching, it just means circumstances define behaviour and he never taught to behave blindly. And when he returns who would be ready to join him? peace loving, other cheek giving christians, or ready to die for God, sword ready even by selling cloaks muslims as instructed by him?


When he returns he comes back as Yahveh, and probation for salvation is over because he has left the Mercy Seat. First coming as Savior, and Second coming as Conqueror. He will exact judgement at Armageddon just as he did at Sodom and Gomorrah, none of us are going to lift a finger. There won't be very many christians here by that time, those who miss the Rapture will die at the hands of the Son of Perdition or be imprisoned.






edit on 6-11-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 



He will exact judgement at Armageddon just as he did at Sodom and Gomorrah, none of us are going to lift a finger. There won't be very many christians here by that time, those who miss the Rapture will die at the hands of the Son of Perdition or be imprisoned.


14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
-Revelations 17:14


This indicates that Jesus will have his "called, faithful and chosen" followers with him when he fights the beast and his army. Christians do not have the concept of taking up arms to fight back those who oppress them. However, the Muslims who also believe in Jesus' 2nd coming have such a concept..... and it will be the muslims who will be fighting alongside Jesus.

If Jesus returns, who would he be more pleased with?
A society where people utter "peace be upon him" after every mention of Jesus' name? Or a society where people mock God and His prophets and Jesus, in the name of "free speech"?

The sad truth is that Christianity was steamrolled by secular ideas a long time ago. Christianity allowed these secular forces to take over its societies. Which is why in North America and Europe, Christians have to live in a society that sees as "normal" what the bible calls sin. Who do you blame for this mess?

While Christianity failed to uphold the bible, Islam remains a cultural / religious force that stands as a counter weight to secular values that are taking over the world.... and it will remain so until Jesus returns to win the final battle.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 





This indicates that Jesus will have his "called, faithful and chosen" followers with him when he fights the beast and his army. Christians do not have the concept of taking up arms to fight back those who oppress them. However, the Muslims who also believe in Jesus' 2nd coming have such a concept..... and it will be the muslims who will be fighting alongside Jesus.


The Bride lift a finger. It's not our place to punish the wicked, that's his (the King) job and it's a function he has performed on several occasions, and when he casts the wicked into Gehenna it'll be the angels doing that for him.

Muslim won't be fighting alongside Jesus, because you will be destroyed. Islam denies the Son of God and if you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father either.

1 John 2:22-23

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

No one from the nations is with Jesus when he returns to do battle with the forces of the A/C, the Bride has been removed from harms way, and those who come to Christ during the great tribulation will be martyred or held captive, and so he fights them on his own with no help. No one is there to lift a finger to help him but he destrys his enemies alone.

Isaiah 63:1-6

[Isaiah speaking]
1 Who is this who comes from Edom,
With dyed garments from Bozrah,
This One who is glorious in His apparel,
Traveling in the greatness of His strength?—

[Christ speaking]
“I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save.”

[Isaiah speaking]
2 Why is Your apparel red,
And Your garments like one who treads in the winepress?

[Christ speaking]
3 “I have trodden the winepress alone,
And from the peoples no one was with Me.
For I have trodden them in My anger,
And trampled them in My fury;
Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments,
And I have stained all My robes.
4 For the day of vengeance is in My heart,
And the year of My redeemed has come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help,
And I wondered
That there was no one to uphold;
Therefore My own arm brought salvation for Me;
And My own fury, it sustained Me.
6 I have trodden down the peoples in My anger,
Made them drunk in My fury,
And brought down their strength to the earth.”

7 I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord
And the praises of the Lord,
According to all that the Lord has bestowed on us,
And the great goodness toward the house of Israel,
Which He has bestowed on them according to His mercies,
According to the multitude of His lovingkindnesses.
8 For He said, “Surely they are My people,
Children who will not lie.”
So He became their Savior.
9 In all their affliction He was afflicted,
And the Angel of His Presence saved them;
In His love and in His pity He redeemed them;
And He bore them and carried them
All the days of old.
10 But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit;
So He turned Himself against them as an enemy,
And He fought against them.

11 Then he remembered the days of old,
Moses and his people, saying:
“Where is He who brought them up out of the sea
With the shepherd of His flock?
Where is He who put His Holy Spirit within them,
12 Who led them by the right hand of Moses,
With His glorious arm,
Dividing the water before them
To make for Himself an everlasting name,
13 Who led them through the deep,
As a horse in the wilderness,
That they might not stumble?”

14 As a beast goes down into the valley,
And the Spirit of the Lord causes him to rest,
So You lead Your people,
To make Yourself a glorious name.

A Prayer of Penitence
15 Look down from heaven,
And see from Your habitation, holy and glorious.
Where are Your zeal and Your strength,
The yearning of Your heart and Your mercies toward me?
Are they restrained?
16 Doubtless You are our Father,
Though Abraham was ignorant of us,
And Israel does not acknowledge us.
You, O Lord, are our Father;
Our Redeemer from Everlasting is Your name.
17 O Lord, why have You made us stray from Your ways,
And hardened our heart from Your fear?
Return for Your servants’ sake,
The tribes of Your inheritance.
18 Your holy people have possessed it but a little while;
Our adversaries have trodden down Your sanctuary.
19 We have become like those of old, over whom You never ruled,
Those who were never called by Your name.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 




1 John 2:22-23

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

"Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?"0

Well, then the muslims are covered, since they don't deny Jesus is the Messiah.


Muslim won't be fighting alongside Jesus, because you will be destroyed. Islam denies the Son of God and if you do not have the Son, you do not have the Father either.

As for the "son" bit.... muslims don't see Jesus as a "son" of God, maybe as a title but not as a literal "begotten" son of God.

Either way, David and Adam were also called "sons of God" in the bible. So the same applies to Jesus as well.




No one from the nations is with Jesus when he returns to do battle with the forces of the A/C,



14 They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
-Revelations 17:14


Revelations 17:14 shows us that the "called and chosen" are with Jesus when he fights the forces of the anti-christ.

Also, the beast "was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them."

Where do you suppose these saints located? In secular North America / Europe / Australia? Do you think the AC is going to fan his armies out to these regions to find out who the real christians are before conquering them?

Christianity has already been conquered by the secular forces of the world.
Today, only Islam stands opposed as a cultural entity to the godless secularism and it will be Islam that will be targeted by the forces of beast... because Islamic societies resists the invisible forces that corrupted Christianity in the western world.

Understand that revelations is set mostly in and around the middle east... which mostly has a muslim population. It is they who will be attacked by the beasts armies. It would be from among these muslims who the "called and chosen of Jesus" would be comprised.

God knows best.



posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 05:51 AM
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posted on Nov, 7 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by sk0rpi0n
 


With Enoch and Elijah, the bible establishes the concept of a man being lifted up to heaven.
However, the Koran states that a third man, Jesus was also lifted up to heaven.

The Bible also says that Jesus was lifted up to heaven.

So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes, and said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven.”
(Acts 1:6-11 ESV)

If you read the context of this statement you will find it took place 40 days after his crucifixion and resurrection.


The underlined part talks about him calling on God.. and God answering him by rescuing and protecting him Now, we all know that Jesus did call on God for "the cup to pass from him" moments before his arrest.

He asked that the cup would pass from only if it was God's will. He also ended his prayer by asking that God's will, not his, be done. When he as arrested he refused to allow angels to rescue him because to do so would be to God against his fathers will.

Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”
(Matthew 26:53-54 ESV)


The only thing there is about sacrifices in the OT is about animal sacrifice.... there is nothing about human sacrifice... which Christians claim Jesus was.

These sacrifices didn't actually take away sins. They were prophecies of what Jesus would do.

The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
(John 1:29 ESV)

And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
(Hebrews 10:11-14 ESV)


I'm quite familiar with how Christians cherry pick scriptures that can be applied to Jesus.

Muslims do the same thing. They accept the truth of those parts of the Bible that are compatible with their beliefs but reject those that contradict those beliefs.


Forget Pilate and Herod... when did Jesus ever mention anything about his execution being a "sin sacrifice"?

Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
(Luke 24:44-47 ESV)






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