Police Sniper Shoots Suicidal Teen After Parents Call 911

like I always say.....one doesn't have to aim center mass....us texans do it differently......we shoot at the age of two in diapers.....and get real good at bouncing bullitts off the ground in front....or in the case of coyotes....out from under their feet....cops are shrimpy wimps with bad training...

Originally posted by BrianG
Sad story

Where did he get the gun?

Can anyone be sure if would not shoot others before himself?

Lots of people kill mom or dad sister or brother son or daugter then do themselves in.

Why the heck would he automatically be a threat to others just because he was tired of life??
I guess suicidal persons are all potential murderers with your logic?
I dont understand how anyone can defend how an army of cops showed up like that when the guy was only a threat to HIMSELF.

And lots of people dont do that, that is a big MINORITY. There was absolutely nothing to suggest that he was a threat to anyone but himself.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


So avoid them. And when confronted by them, be polite and obediant. You won't ever beat the cops head to head. If you want to stand up to them, don't do it at the time, you have to Sun Tzu it. You have to choose the time and place of the battle, and it isn't when you are being confronted by 20 police cars with snipers and riot gear.

In my opinion, and I actually like a lot of cops, but in my opinion they are like crocodiles just lying in wait. Better off to avoid them completely. If you absolutely must interact with a cop, then you better be on your best behavior. It is stupid to poke the crocodile with a stick while you're waste deep in his water.

And, it is getting worse and worse day by day. I no longer hire law enforcement of any type. Not ex-law enforcement, not current law enforcement. Even in my professional interactions I am very wary of how I interact with them. The psychology of law enforcement has changed dramatically, and they are becoming more and more drone-like, and they are not critical thinkers. I've tried it, and I've been bitten every time.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


That's a very insensitive thing to say.

You'd have to be seriously mentally handicapped to think pointing guns at cops wouldn't get you killed. He knew what he was doing, he got what he wanted.
"I live in a nice house with a family who cares about me, life is paaaaaiiiiiin"
I say good, one less self entitled hipster scumbag in the world.

reply to post by tpsreporter


Suicidal people are THE MOST DANGEROUS PEOPLE ON EARTH! Once you have made the conscious decision to end your own life you are capable of anything and taking whoever else with you. The man had a gun and was making aggressive gestures with it. If I was the sniper I would have done the same. The man made the decision to die and he was made an honest man. Regrettably, now an officer has to live with the guilt of killing a man when the man should take that guilt into death with him. I feel for people when they are down or suicidal my twin was at one time. I'm pretty sure that a lot or people have thought about suicide myself included. But to act on it is to bring the idea to fruitition. When my brother was suicidal my mom told him that we loved him and we will be there for him if he choses life and I left him to do his thing. Time passed and he came around and he is still alive and kicking. Who's place is it for me to tell you that you must live if you want to die, the same as me choosing you to die if you want to live. You must allow the person to help themselves from within before you go running and saying "life is all candy and hot women" like the negotiators like to scream. Little do people know that after you see a miraculous "save" of a suicidal person they just kill themselves later. There is so much more power in telling some that the real hero for them is in themselves and no one can fix you except you. And if that person wishes to prove they are their own hero well they have to keep living another day. Worked for my bro.. Worked for me.

Moral of the story. Don't say you are suicidal unless you are ready to die.

What I don't get is why when a cop kills someone regardless of reason they cop is a murderer.
"Cop killed man after naked man choked three kids"
First comment to the news report. "the cop is a murderer the man was unarmed!!"

The officer acted in haste
The teen shouldn't have been shot. They didn't assess the situation before acting aggressively

"He pretty much had his back to the negotiation team when he was shot. How could he possibly have been threatening them?" Pekor questioned. The bullet came through the door while Andrew Messina was inside the home. The autopsy report says Andrew was shot in the right side of his abdomen, and the bullet exited the left side. According to that description, the teen was facing the opposite direction from where negotiators were outside the home. Yarbrough was on the scene less than 20 minutes before he pulled the trigger and admitted he didn't even know if there was a hostage inside. Pekor and others are concerned the sniper acted in haste, without being properly briefed that Andrew Messina was a suicidal teen, not a hardened criminal. "Obviously it was an act of aggression against him. And my perception of the situation was that he was not, himself, being aggressive," said Susan Ehtesham, one of Andrew Messina's former teachers. "Would this make you hesitate to call the police?" Saltzman asked neighbor Leeanna Tucker. "I would never call them for help now," she replied.

However. I wonder how he had a gun in the first place. Did the parents have one?

Originally posted by marbles87
reply to post by tpsreporter

 

Suicidal people are THE MOST DANGEROUS PEOPLE ON EARTH! Once you have made the conscious decision to end your own life you are capable of anything and taking whoever else with you. The man had a gun and was making aggressive gestures with it. If I was the sniper I would have done the same. The man made the decision to die and he was made an honest man. Regrettably, now an officer has to live with the guilt of killing a man when the man should take that guilt into death with him. I feel for people when they are down or suicidal my twin was at one time. I'm pretty sure that a lot or people have thought about suicide myself included. But to act on it is to bring the idea to fruitition. When my brother was suicidal my mom told him that we loved him and we will be there for him if he choses life and I left him to do his thing. Time passed and he came around and he is still alive and kicking. Who's place is it for me to tell you that you must live if you want to die, the same as me choosing you to die if you want to live. You must allow the person to help themselves from within before you go running and saying "life is all candy and hot women" like the negotiators like to scream. Little do people know that after you see a miraculous "save" of a suicidal person they just kill themselves later. There is so much more power in telling some that the real hero for them is in themselves and no one can fix you except you. And if that person wishes to prove they are their own hero well they have to keep living another day. Worked for my bro.. Worked for me.

Moral of the story. Don't say you are suicidal unless you are ready to die.

What I don't get is why when a cop kills someone regardless of reason they cop is a murderer.
"Cop killed man after naked man choked three kids"
First comment to the news report. "the cop is a murderer the man was unarmed!!"

This was NOT a man, this was a child. He was 16 years old. He had no idea what he was doing.


Society has a moral responsibility to care for it's children. If we went about letting kids make their own choices and fate be damned what hell they get themselves into, then i'm pretty sure society would fall apart.

Originally posted by darkhorserider
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

So avoid them. And when confronted by them, be polite and obediant. You won't ever beat the cops head to head. If you want to stand up to them, don't do it at the time, you have to Sun Tzu it. You have to choose the time and place of the battle, and it isn't when you are being confronted by 20 police cars with snipers and riot gear.

In my opinion, and I actually like a lot of cops, but in my opinion they are like crocodiles just lying in wait. Better off to avoid them completely. If you absolutely must interact with a cop, then you better be on your best behavior. It is stupid to poke the crocodile with a stick while you're waste deep in his water.

And, it is getting worse and worse day by day. I no longer hire law enforcement of any type. Not ex-law enforcement, not current law enforcement. Even in my professional interactions I am very wary of how I interact with them. The psychology of law enforcement has changed dramatically, and they are becoming more and more drone-like, and they are not critical thinkers. I've tried it, and I've been bitten every time.

You I could agree with what you are saying if the cops were not state sponsored by tax dollars that were stolen from me...its one thing to deal with thugs and gangsters who you do not support....its another to deal with thugs and gangster that you are FORCED to support...and this is all by the "law" by the way...that thing were all supposed to obey to make things "fair" and "justice" and yada...

Its a really sad state of affairs when you are forced to work to survive and that same work is exploited and pillaged by force to build the force that is going to enforce you to comply with being stolen from so that same force can get bigger and bigger to the point its a no contest situation and you are left with nothing but building your own prison and financing your own abuse....

Originally posted by Komonazmuk
Lesson to be learned;

Calling the cops on someone is the worst thing you could do.

Expect violence when you call the boys in blue, sometimes they even shoot the caller.

Sometimes they shoot the caller? Seems all too often from all these recent news reports where the caller is being shot dead!

OK, after reading a couple of other sources, I have to soften my stance up quite a bit. The father was having a conversation with the son, and the police took over and wouldn't let him talk anymore, even though the kid was asking for his father. That was a terrible decision! The sniper had only been on the scene 20 minutes, and wasn't briefed on the situation at all. There was nobody else in the house, and the negotiators were behind cover, so nobody was in danger. The mother apparently did call the father, and the father was able to reach his son, and having a conversation.

The addition of a police sniper, poorly informed, with a high-powered rifle, and the decision to isolate the boy away from those who cared about him were the two decisions that cost him his life.

Still some underlying problems, most 16 year olds don't decide to kill themselves with a .357 Magnum over a bad day at school, and still a poor decision for the mother to have left the home and called the police, but the police definitely escalated the situation and directly caused the death.

reply to post by tpsreporter


If you can take a 4,000lb vehicle and careen it down the highway at 65mph you are an adult. I love it when people call 14-18 "kids" they know what they are doing. Are you going to tell me when you were 16 you needed someone to hold your hand? This man knew what he was doing. That's wrong with society is that everyone must be labeled down in their defense. Let me guess you would defend James Holmes from getting the chair because he "might be mental" I love your types so naive so eager to rush to the aid of anyone even if that same person would love nothing more than to drag you with them into their demise.

I whole heartly believe that the mental Health system of the world is the leading cause of suicide. How many people think to themselves "I wish I had the courage to get help" but nope once you open your mouth you are outed like a leper and deemed "mental" some people would rather die than ask for help in this world anymore.

But yeah now that everyone knows when you were 16 you were still going legs up on the changing table.

Originally posted by violet
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

That's a very insensitive thing to say.

edit on 30-10-2012 by violet because: (no reason given)

Good.

This is the world we live in. Be outraged at the cops sniping this kid. Stop letting them get away with crap.

Drum circles and whining only get you so far.

Feeling bad isnt going to rebuild New Jersey and getting depressed isnt going to stop cops from shooting people.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Can't.

Not personally vested, the risk far outweighs the personal reward. The kid's own family has to do it, and they have to do it on a personal level, not just with a lawsuit.

If every person took responsibility for their own justice, the message would get across, but lawsuits aren't going to do it, and strangers aren't going to do it for them, and more than half the population is not only OK with the current situation, but actively seeking more government control, rules, laws, and nanny-stating!

If the police knew that half the people they crossed were willing and capable of crossing them back when they least expect it, then there would be mutual respect between citizens and authorities, but at this time the police only fear Mexican Cartels and a few Mob Bosses. There is no balance, so the police have carte blanche.

In fact, this election cycle is proof-positive that things are only going to get far, far worse! Both candidates support all kinds of unconstitutional plans to make you safer from imaginary evils, but much more victimized by the authorities themselves. People are out there actively campaigning, loudly, and emphatically in support of both of these guys!! It blows my mind!

reply to post by SamTGonzalez


Akimbo!

Originally posted by darkhorserider

Not personally vested, the risk far outweighs the personal reward.

That's the magic ratio for tyranny, isnt it?

Lawsuits only hurt the taxpayers. None of us are going to go after a bad cop. Anyone or small group that does will be immediately written off as nuts by the majority of the population.

They're sitting in a magic warm spot where they can get away with just about anything and most everyone will do absolutely nothing.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I don't understand how people will hate on cops for anything even if the cops are right. I believe that more people should be shot by the police. We are humans who have been around for a long time. You would think we would have this law and order thing figured out. I personally think that anyone that brandishes a weapon in anger toward anyone should be shot. If I grabbed a gun and waived it in public in anger for no reason or because I committed a crime I would absolutely expect to be killed and would even justify it. Just like what happens in Iraq. "don't shoot back until you're dead first" welcome to 2012

It's all about the golden rule and karma

Oh and for the dirty cops that beat up homeless drunks and women and #. Throw them in prison with all the real cons and I would love to see the whopping once they found out that the new fish was a cop haha

Who ordered he take the shot? As far as I know they're not in a position to make a command decision like that. He must have been told by someone in command to take the shot.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere

None of us are going to go after a bad cop.

That's not entirely true, but the number who would take retributive action is too low, and the number that could and would actually do it successfully without ending up dead or in jail is miniscule.

It definitely is a warm, cozy spot for the authorites, and they are definitely abusing it.

I think that is about as far as I can take that discussion without getting into ugly territory.

The only thing I think the cops could have done better in this situation was to stage the SWAT team away from where the kid could see them. THat right there was pretty unprofessional of them. One not only did that endanger the SWAT and cops unnecessarily it freak out the kid even more. THey should have not been visible to the kid. That is SWAT 101 and I'm surprised they messed that part up.

But to the people that say he's just a kid and and an adult is not someone who is 16 years old. I say you are missing the point. A chimpanzee doesn't really know what a gun is and can still be every bit as dangerous running around holding one as a grown man. So just because the kids still a kid doesn't mean that he's not capable of going around and shooting the gun at people. I think we can easily establish that 16 year olds are every bit as physically fit and capable as a adult when it comes to being a literal threat to society.

At the end of the day the cops did what they had to do to keep the rest of the neighborhood safe. I can't blame them too much. And don't start saying that they should have treated this like some barricade situation and wait the kid out. They have other stuff they need to be doing too. They can't literally spend all day talking this kid down while other violent crimes are taking place all over the city.

I'm not usually on the cops side. But in this case I am.