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Police Sniper Shoots Suicidal Teen After Parents Call 911

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posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:54 PM
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This story is just horrible. While the argument is made that they followed "policy" it leaves a sick taste in my mouth.

News Story Link - Police Sniper Shoots Teen




Lisa and Nick Messina said their son was killed at the hands of the officers they called for help. According to his parents, Andrew Messina had a bad day at school and the pressure was so overwhelming, he grabbed a gun and threatened to kill himself. Lisa Messina called the cops in desperation, hoping an officer would come talk to him. But what arrived was an army of deputies, an armored tank and a sniper. "We would still be sitting there today if it weren't for that very, very aggressive act that he made of ramming the gun and a pistol straight through a glass door at our officers," said Cherokee County Sheriff Roger Garrison, on the day after the shooting. Garrison painted a picture of a dangerous gunman taking aim at his officers, and defended his sniper's fire. "Had that officer not taken the action, there is a good chance one of those negotiators that was there who also has a family, also would not be going home today," Garrison said. But the other side of this story has never been told before, a story about a boy described as a pacifist who some say was needlessly killed. "Would you have ever called the police if you had known this could have happened?" Chief Investigative Reporter Wendy Saltzman asked Lisa Messina. "That's the one thing I would have done different today. I would not have called 911," she said.





"He just got sad and kind of down on himself and talked about running away. And that discussion turned to ending his life. And I wasn't home," Nick Messina said. "It just happened so fast, and then he went upstairs. He has the gun in his hand, and he had bullets in the other hand," Lisa Messina continued. Andrew Messina picked up the phone and called 911. "I need you to get away from him if you think he is going to shoot you," the 911 operator said on the call. "I think he is going to shoot himself," Lisa Messina replied. The operator told her to get out of the home, and Lisa Messina asked, "How many cars are coming? Just one, right?" "I'm not sure," the operator replied. But next thing they knew a slew of officers arrived. "They brought an army to take out a 16-year-old boy. To kill a 16-year-old boy," Nick Messina said.



I don't know what to say about this. I can find no justification for how the Police handled this. The kids was in his home, he was threatening only himself. The Police reaction was going to result in only one outcome, the teen getting killed, either by his own hand or theirs. There seems to be no effort to save the boy, rather their aim was to just put him down.

It's disgusting.
edit on 30-10-2012 by tpsreporter because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-10-2012 by tpsreporter because: (no reason given)



+3 more 
posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:55 PM
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Suicide is against the law and an affront to the king.

Being shot by a cop is glorious justice.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Sad story


Where did he get the gun?

Can anyone be sure if would not shoot others before himself?

Lots of people kill mom or dad sister or brother son or daugter then do themselves in.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Another story to further cement my belief that calling the police these days should be an absolute last resort.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Suicide is against the law and an affront to the king.

Being shot by a cop is glorious justice.


Pardon?

I am beyond confused by your comment. Instead of dismissing what you have said, I request you to elaborate further?

Troll?
edit on 30-10-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by tpsreporter
 


The police treated this situation like cracking a walnut with a sledgehammer. But who is surprised by that?

Perhaps the mother, as she made the mistake of calling them. Few other people will be. The police act like a paramilitary force rather than a police force.


edit on 30-10-2012 by ollncasino because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:04 PM
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He knew he'd be killed by police, seeing their recent track record, so he made a scene so they'd be called.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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I dunno. IT's hard for me to imagine poor shooting discipline from a SWAT sniper. There are two sides to every story however I tend to believe the snipers judgement in this case. IF the cops aren't making up the whole rammed a loaded gun through a glass door while aiming it at the cops and the negotiator then the sniper was justified. THey'd do the same thing to me in that situation. And to be honest if I were behind the sites of that rifle and saw the kid do that I would probably make the decision to shoot him to. Imagine if the kid let off a salvo of 5 or 6 shots. THey would have gone everywhere. Into the lawn, indiscriminately into the cops and negotiator. Into neighbors homes and walls. It could have quickly gotten much much worse.

I understand that the parents were hoping that a single cop would arrive and talk the kids down. Problem is you have just told the police that a deranged person with a loaded gun is storming around very emotional and said he plans on discharging said gun. Into himself probably. But who's going to take the chance. A crazy person ow has a loaded gun and has already stated that they intend to use it. He could just shoot himself, He may go on a rampage and then shoot himself. EIther way the SWAT team responding is justified.

Hey look at it this way. That SWAT officer now has to deal with the pain of having killed someone. He didn't plan on going to work that day to kill anybody. Now he gets to think about it for the rest of his life and have that kids face haunt his sleep for a long long time.

Its tragic yes. But in the real world that is often how this sort of stuff ends. I have a gun. Even when I was extremely depressed I knew to never brandish it for any reason especially in public. Cause I could get shot dead by the police when they respond.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by tpsreporter
We would still be sitting there today if it weren't for that very, very aggressive act that he made of ramming the gun and a pistol straight through a glass door at our officers,"


The gun and a pistol? So he was dual-wielding?



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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reply to post by MDDoxs
 


I think he was trying to be sarcastic.


_________________

OP Story.

Why was there a gun?

Why did the kid go for the gun?

Failed Parents who can't advice kids nowadays??



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Suicide is against the law and an affront to the king.

Being shot by a cop is glorious justice.


Pardon?

I am beyond confused by your comment. Instead of dismissing what you have said, I request you to elaborate further?

Troll?
edit on 30-10-2012 by MDDoxs because: (no reason given)


What's to elaborate?

You dont own your life. The government does. Suicide is illegal. Your life is valuable to the king. Until one of the kings agents decides otherwise and strikes you down for being an inconvenience.

Land of the free (suicidal kid). Home of the brave (brave cop just trying to get home safely).
edit on 30-10-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by tpsreporter
 


So the bullets were not even in the gun, when the mother called the police? On her own son? Why not call an ambulance? Why not call the father, the best friend, the grandmother? Why not tackle him and take the bullets?

The mother chose to run away and call the police, and now she is mad that the police did what police do?

If she wanted to act like a mother, the time was right there face to face with her baby, not on a talk show in the aftermath.

I'll tell you what, I know my mother wouldn't have walked away from that situation, and I know my wife would much rather have our boys shoot her than to have the police shoot them.

The boy "wanted to run away." So, there was trouble in the household, and the mother had lost all control, and when it came down to the moment of truth, she ran away and called police, and now she wants to place the blame somewhere besides herself.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by scorpiosin
 


Indeed. I was told years ago by a former police friend that if someone breaks in and you know you can have the upper hand. Not to call the cops. He told me the bed room is considered (can't remember the exact words) last sanctuary in your house. So, if you can bring the intruder in your bed room by force or other wise you have pretty much carte blanche to do what you please. I never and wish to never test this out but he pretty much spelled it out. Don't call us. I was shocked.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Pretty stupid thing to say and it doesn't contribute # to this topic.

How can anyone justify a cop shooting someone in a situation that NEVER CALLED FOR IT?

Shame!



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:11 PM
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reply to post by darkhorserider
 


You missed the point by a wide mile.

The cops themselves are a bunch of stupid, arrogant bullies and you're taking their side in this matter?



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


I could agree the sniper acted correctly for his own training.

I question the police departments reaction to the situation. They seemed to provoke things to the point that a teenager (already predisposed to act more erratic and emotional) who is suicidal (in a heightened emotional state) would have an aggressive reaction to the police and their actions.

I don't question the sniper, i question the department and how they chose to handle this situation. If it was policy to respond to a suicide call with tanks and snipers i say the policy is wrong.

Like a fire dept bringing gasoline to a house fire. Only going to make things worse.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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Maybe they did handle this according to their training.

I say they need better training.

Maybe something specific to the "suicide by cop" scenario. Sounds like a smart but depressed kid, who knew exactly what would happen when he pointed that gun at the police. Sad that those issued legal weapons and charged with public safety weren't quite as intelligent. They often aren't, from what I've seen.

Can we say for certain he wouldn't have harmed anyone else before killing himself? I am pretty certain of it. It sounds like he had ample opportunity before the cops showed up, which he chose not to take. I personally think the kid would have been scared to even pull the trigger on himself, hence pointing the gun at the cops. Anyone with half a brain knows the likely outcome of that, and this kid was obviously intent on suicide. A shame that a little bit of logic on the part of the police might have saved a life. How often I find myself saying something like that....
edit on 30-10-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:15 PM
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reply to post by VaterOrlaag
 


I'm not taking their side, I'm saying we know what we get when we call them. You're not calling Andy Griffith to come talk some manly sense into your boy, you are calling a paramilitary unit that works for a buck and wants to go home at the end of the day unscathed. I'm also criticizing a woman that doesn't seem like much of a mother, but now she is crying that it is the fault of the police? She had 16 years to fix this problem, but the police had a few moments to make a key life and death decision.

Don't get me wrong, it is a sad story. Leave the police, and the government, and the courts, and the child welfare folks, and the child support folks, and the FDA, and the code enforcers, and all other regulatory bodies out of your business, and you'll be a much happier person. People that depend on someone else to solve all their problems often end up disappointed or downright appalled at the results. The mother should have handled her son, that is what mothers are for. She should have done it 16 years ago, and 15, and 14, and 13, and she should have done it last week, and she should have done it in that very key moment, but instead she called the police, and now he's dead.



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by tpsreporter

Like a fire dept bringing gasoline to a house fire. Only going to make things worse.


Escalation of force.

Police are trained to bring situation to a point where they can resolve it.

If you're screaming in the street (and lucky) they'll tase you. If you walk toward them they'll shoot you.

If you're just minding your own business they cant do anything (ideally). So they confront you and make you uncomfortable hoping you'll try to move them. If you touch them they'll call it assault and wreck your face.

They hide behind the force pyramid like it's some great rule of order permitting them to only use just as much force is necessary to resolve a situation but the reality on the street is it is their ticket to shooting anyone in the face.

They push you into action then they react.

How many people would blame the dog for biting me if I kept slapping it in the face? Not very many. So a cop comes up and metaphorically slaps you in the face until you bite. Then they are the hero standing over your cold body.
edit on 30-10-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 30 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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Lesson to be learned;

Calling the cops on someone is the worst thing you could do.

Expect violence when you call the boys in blue, sometimes they even shoot the caller.




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