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Police Sniper Shoots Suicidal Teen After Parents Call 911

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posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 06:44 AM
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If the mom fled the house then she must have been in fear of her life.
How often have we heard "kid kills parents" in recent years?

What would you people be saying if the kid shot a curious neighbor watching through his window across the street?
If the kid pointed the gun in the direction of others (police) then he's a danger to others.

It's one thing to be barricaded in a house, unseen.
It's totally different to be pointing the gun in any direction outside the house.

It makes no difference if the gun has any bullets or not.




posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 06:48 AM
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reply to post by darkhorserider
 

Oh now that is one of my favorite songs. It also might be more fitting than you might think.

I don't know.. Just generalizing here but a few years of my trucking was spent with a company based in Chattanooga, Tn so Atlanta was an area I spent a lot of time in and around. There are things about Atlanta that may not be P.C. to talk about..but it's a fact. Atlanta is a very mixed if not predominantly black community in many areas that I saw and not in any negative sense on that alone. However, Georgia is 31% black overall. Cherokee County is 89% White. Thats a big change from state average, let alone local... The affluent part of town? The kind, I'm starting to think, where long and drawn out stand offs that come across badly on TV just aren't the kind of thing to let happen.


U.S. Census - Cherokee County / Georgia Stats

Hey, it's a spiffy looking Sheriff Dept website too.

Cherokee County Sheriff

Kinda funny, but for the community there is even a survey running at the moment to tell them what kind of job they're doing. I can't make it up...it's really there, center box on the main page. Given this little event, you'd almost call that insensitive, I'd think. I'll bet the local residents have said a thing or two... lol



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by tpsreporter
 


dead is the successful outcome of a suicidal eppisode - well done the police



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 10:05 AM
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Wrabbit,

First of all excellent post in response to mine! I agree with a lot of what you had to say. I did not know the sniper set up 65 yards away. THats really damned close. SO, even though I was assuming he was a bit farther back I still say that even with good optics looking through a sheet of glass reflecting light from outside which is brighter than the light inside will mask the amount of detail the sniper can see. By the way you are right about being able to see clearly into shadows. But I feel that is when you are looking at an object in a shadow that is outside. Not through a sheet of glass acting like a semi mirror.

THat being said. Its totally possible for the sniper to set up in seconds after walking past the mom if he's only shooting at a target 65 yards away. He just plops down. Settles in. And thats pretty much it. He doesn't have to mess with the scope or play with the dope. He's just going to aim an inch or two low to compensate for the initial lift the bullet will have before traveling past 100 yards. Also knowing that in general the sniper would have to be shooting pretty close. He could have zeroed his sights for something like 80 yards. Im not the sniper. Wasn't there so I don't know.

I like the amount of research you are digging up on this. And i am beginning to agree with your point. If the SWAT was set up around the house corner, and weren't in any direct line of site and neither were any of the neighbors then the sniper lost his cool and shot negligently.

Winchester 70. Was the rifle the sniper used? Nice rifle. Not my choice. But damn the action on the bolt is real nice on the 70. Was he shooting 308 or something else. Any idea? Just curious now about the kit he was using.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 
You know... For some reason, this case just bugs me. You ever get one of the stories that comes up and just doesn't set right? Kinda...eats at ya to figure out how it could happen? That's how this one is settling with me. It's hard for me to believe as well. I'm usually the last one to jump to the side against Police as a knee jerk thing and among the most vicious when police corruption or abuse is clear....but this looks a step removed and beyond what is normally seem for bad judgement.

I'm at school right now so limited on resources for research on these machines but I'm thinking I'm going to try and get a Google street view image and get a better answer of just what visual lines were on this. That..around the corner and behind a wall..I have to say it bugs me more now than it did last night. I really want to see that to understand if it's really as bad as the description sounds. Obviously, if I can get the imagery I want, I'll bring it all back here to share.

Beyond that, I'll step back from the reflection and angles question when that may be answered later (hopefully).

I was talking to my other half who has been an avid long distance shooter herself before health started making that more than she could keep up with. She agreed that it seemed off for the timing and mentioned another aspect on that. Total incident time is presented as a bit more than an hour. The sniper was in position a little over 15 minutes by the report...and by timelines, seems to have set up, observed for a minimal time and fired directly after getting set up. So did he arrive 45 minutes late or waiting on the sidelines until ordered to set up at that stage? Why then?

I hate to even think this direction..but was the sniper set up specifically to end this at the first open opportunity and not necessarily ordered to end it only if he posed an immediate threat? You know what I mean about semantics and wording?

Oh, and I might have chosen my own wording badly. I was using the Model 70 as the example of a 'normal' long rifle a department might be seen using....as opposed to an AR-10 or as you note, perhaps one of the large .308 bolt action models to come out in recent years. I'm looking at the .357 they had at home by choice and thinking the parents wouldn't go bug eyed over a typical rifle like the first, if they saw it go walking by in the middle of the situation. Curious perhaps, but the reaction the story described sounded downright alarmed.

I could be carrying a personal experience a bit on that too..and I have an idea of how I might be able to narrow down what weapons they have in that Department and see...That'll be another thing to check tonight. Indeed.. I had watched a SWAT raid on my own street a few years ago and in a dense residential area with typical single story wood frame houses, they went after the place with M4 type rifles. I just about had kittens in the rush to get my wife and son into the bathroom and down into the tub when I realized what I was seeing across and 1 house down. Since then, I guess I don't underestimate anything for overkill on weapons Law Enforcement is using these days.

Anyway.... I hate to feel like it was a post without a ton added here...but hopefully, I'll have a colorful one with pics late tonight to help answer some of the real brain teasers of this..arrangement..as they describe everyone when he was shot. I can't even articulate why this one specifically bugs me so much when others have been as bad or worse. Maybe that will be clear when the visual behind the words is clear. Just something nagging...



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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IF you could get arial street shots from google maps or something that would e great! It would help us deduce where the sniper set up and as to what his viewing angle was. Would tell us more about whether he really could see clearly what was going on or if he fudged it.

I figure most SWAT snipers will use their own rifle since it's what they are most familiar with. but if he is using police issued rifles then he's probably using a Remington 700 or maybe a cheaper but cool looking Savage BA 10/110 or something. Police forces that can afford it will go for the Remington. A lot of police forces are using the BA10/110 due to their high quality for the lower price.

If he was shooting through glass he was probably using the tried and true, very familiar to him .308

As to the case not sitting right. If the police were in front of the house when the kid did what they thought was going to be him breaking through the glass and going on a rampage than yes the sniper was justified. But from the way this is beginning to play out I am beginning to suspect the official version too. SO yeah something is beginning to stink about this case.

Look forward to whatever further details you can dig up!

Also, about the SWAT raiding that house across from you. Yeah 223 going in random directions in a neighborhood is not a good thing. Other than the fact that a cheap AR15 is more cost effective on the SWATS budget than a 9 or 10 mm MP series weapon I don't really understand why they would want to enter a house with a weapon shooting 223. Waaaaaay tooo much overpressure from the muzzle if you are shooting in a enclosed confined space like along side a wall in a hallway. Would imagine it would rattle the shooter a bit every time he shot under those conditions.

I once got to see LAPD SWAT in action. they were pretty well coordinated. So I don't know how other SWAT teams around the country stack up against their level of professionalism. But I was happy to see them do their work. They raided my buddies neighbors house. They would always burn construction material in their backyards, we'd yell at them over the fence to knock it off. We were in our early 20's at the time so we called them names like crackheads and stuff when yelling over the fence. We obviously weren't helping the situation with our then immaturity. But one day we are walking down his street to go to the corner store (he lived in a cul de sac) and two SWAT vans careen around the corner and fly 60MPH down the street along with a couple more squad cars. THey all screech to a halt in front of my buddies house. We looked at each other like uh oh they're on to us. But nope they were there for his neighbors. As the SWAT team walked out hauling bags and bags of god knows what we realized. Hey we were right all along and they were crackheads. So thats my one time I got to see LAPD SWAT in action. They were actually pretty cool and some of them even talked to us afterwards and answered our questions.
edit on 31-10-2012 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-10-2012 by BASSPLYR because: Stupid Iphones autocorrect!!!



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 01:53 PM
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Suicide by cop.

This has happened before, and I have known this issue to be taking place. A person who gets so out of their mind, does not have the will power to pull the trigger on themselves. However "will" is taken out of the equation when a person decides to go suicide by cop.

If you have a gun, and cops come, you better show your hands. Get on the ground and do what they say.
Its not a game to these people. They will kill you.

The parents should have told the operator he was trying to go suicide by cops. They would have, maybe taken a different approach to this whole ordeal.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by zysin5
 


This wasn't suicide by cop.

Suicide by cop, they run out waving the gun, and knowing they will be shot. They might even call the cops on themselves, or they might just be caught in the act of a crime and decide to go out in a blaze of glory instead of prison.

In this case, he was still inside his door, apparently with his back to the people nearest him, and he was asking to speak to his father on the phone again, and then he was dead. Not suicide by cop.

He was probably a kid that over-reacted in front of his mother, who in turn over-reacted, and next thing you know it was escalated to a point where the kid didn't know what to do, didn't know how much trouble he might be in, and his bad day had gotten so much worse, and he didn't know how to resolve it. The parents were intentionally taken out of the equation, and some maverick sniper was allowed to set up, and end the thing at the first sign of any trouble, which he did the very first moment he spotted the gun near the window.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by zonetripper2065
You'd have to be seriously mentally handicapped to think pointing guns at cops wouldn't get you killed. He knew what he was doing, he got what he wanted.
"I live in a nice house with a family who cares about me, life is paaaaaiiiiiin"
I say good, one less self entitled hipster scumbag in the world.



You must not be great with the whole reading comprehension thing.

The kid wasn't "mentally handicapped" he was suicidal. That's why the cops were called in the first place. They came, as called, and he pointed a gun at them, probably fully aware of the consequences. It fits much more nicely, in accord with known facts, into the he-was-attempting-suicide-by-cop theory, than your wow-this-kid-was-stupid-because-he-pointed-a-gun-at-cops model.

It is the PARENTS who are upset with the cops, as they well should be. The cops failed to comprehend (just like you, it seems) that this kid was SUICIDAL not HOMICIDAL. Sure, sometimes there is an overlap there, but AFAIK there were no indicators of homicidal intent in this story, save the instance where he pointed the gun at cops. But considering this story started out with a suicidal kid, and any american with half a brain knows that pointing at weapon at the police will usually equal death, his act could easily be seen as having someone else pull the trigger for him.

Ask yourself this -- did he fire the weapon, or just aim it, knowing what the outcome would be (the same outcome he intended before the police were called)

But I guess society is full of people who (don't) think like you do. Unfortunately many of them seem to be cops.



EDIT: After some more thinking, I have also come to the conclusion that this could just as easily be the right view.


Originally posted by darkhorserider
He was probably a kid that over-reacted in front of his mother, who in turn over-reacted, and next thing you know it was escalated to a point where the kid didn't know what to do, didn't know how much trouble he might be in, and his bad day had gotten so much worse, and he didn't know how to resolve it. The parents were intentionally taken out of the equation, and some maverick sniper was allowed to set up, and end the thing at the first sign of any trouble, which he did the very first moment he spotted the gun near the window.



I have found that most people who have never been severely depressed / anxious and who have never been in an extreme situation like this where "one thing led to another" (and things kind of "got out of control") often have little concept of what it actually *feels* like to be in those shoes, and just how little mental clarity you can end up having. I've been in situations like that as an adult, nevermind when I was a "stupid" kid. Such people like to feel (and often loudly proclaim) their superiority for their ability to (theoretically) handle a situation like that better, or at the least calling the participant/offender/victim "stupid" for acting differently than these keyboard heroes (IMAGINE they) would in a similar situation.

Of course, this lack of insightful understanding and true empathy seems to become more and more widespread in our media-brainwashed society, turning many into a bunch of heartless, bleating, police-congratulators and high-fivers.

edit on 31-10-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-10-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by darkhorserider
 


He was suicidal when the cops where called right? And he was then shot and killed by a cop. That is pretty much suicide by cop rather he wanted it or not.
I am not saying what the cops did was right at all.. So don't take me the wrong way here.
Cops always have a way of making a bad situation worse.

Its pretty crazy story, but at the end of the day, the kid is dead. Shot by a sniper cop who took him seriously on his threat. Thus is why I came to the conclusion suicide by cop.
Most cases, people will say they want to go suicide by cop. But in most cases. Its defused before it gets to the point of death.
The cops are in the wrong here. If someone is suicidal, the last thing they need is snipers to make their wish come true. It was a fleeting moment of bad decisions, that turned deadly..



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:16 PM
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reply to post by iwilliam
 


You must not be good at reading comprehension I never said he was mentally handicapped. He wasnt suicidal he was an angry kid playing life like a game. If he were actually suicidal he would have killed himself. He was a stupid kid playing fire, and boy did he get burned.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by zysin5
 


I don't think he made any threats did he?

He threatened to kill himself, but we don't kill people to protect them from themselves, that is kind of counter-productive. Sure, he said he wanted to be dead, and now he's dead, but Kevorkian spent considerable time in jail for similar logic.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by iwilliam
 


You must not be good at reading comprehension I never said he was mentally handicapped. He wasnt suicidal he was an angry kid playing life like a game. If he were actually suicidal he would have killed himself. He was a stupid kid playing fire, and boy did he get burned.



You implied it. Re-read my post.

Also, not everyone who is truly suicidal has the guts to do it, regardless of how much they may think they want to die. And how do you know he wasn't suicidal, as he claimed to be, as his parents (who surely knew him better than you) thought he was? You psychic, too, or just THAT awesome?


You seem pretty smart regarding situations you've never been in. It's a shame we're not all lucky enough to be as intelligent and perfect as you. What an awesome place the world would be then!




edit on 31-10-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-10-2012 by iwilliam because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 07:55 PM
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reply to post by zonetripper2065
 



Upon re-reading your posts, not only do I have to stand by my initial impression, it also seems like you were willing to change your opinion / wording for the sheer sake of being argumentative.



Originally posted by zonetripper2065
He wasnt suicidal he was an angry kid playing life like a game. If he were actually suicidal he would have killed himself.



Originally posted by zonetripper2065
He knew what he was doing, he got what he wanted.


So which is it? Was he not suicidal, or did he get exactly what he wanted? I'm not sure you can have it both ways. And I don't think you have to be a master logician to understand that.


It seems like you changed your story to suit your needs, based solely on the premise of bashing this poor dead kid (makes you feel like a big man, does it?)... or maybe just so you can disagree with me. Well, feel free to do that. It doesn't make you any less wrong.

You should review and consider this, if you haven't already:


Originally posted by iwilliam
I have found that most people who have never been severely depressed / anxious and who have never been in an extreme situation like this where "one thing led to another" (and things kind of "got out of control") often have little concept of what it actually *feels* like to be in those shoes, and just how little mental clarity you can end up having. I've been in situations like that as an adult, nevermind when I was a "stupid" kid. Such people like to feel (and often loudly proclaim) their superiority for their ability to (theoretically) handle a situation like that better, or at the least calling the participant/offender/victim "stupid" for acting differently than these keyboard heroes (IMAGINE they) would in a similar situation.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 09:11 PM
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I wish I'd never opened this thread... I honestly do. (sigh). I can see now why the Police Sniper shot him...and I can see where, in hindsight, it's easy to see he wasn't a threat at that instant. I wouldn't have even come back to post again though...if I hadn't said I was going to. I did my research and got my answers. The short version is this. Everyone in this screwed up...

The problem is... This is going to be an emotional thing and understandably so. Those who suspect and hate cops by reflex will not see this any different. Those who look at this a second time now, freshly, may well see both sides for how a tragedy happened.

First, the 9-11 tape because it's what I believe set the tone by the first call out and reports that all the cops rolling in heard/read (dispatch isn't saying much...but typing away a couple times. I'm guessing terminals like all the cars around here have for things not meant for scanner audiences)

911 Audio (Lucidity also posted this link on the thread, as I looked back and started making this post)

On a story like this, everything has to start with what the cops were told and understood it to be...everything is set by that. That's where this tragedy started, I believe. It was quite a bit in time frames of dispatch sending information to the units rolling in, before the mother even suggested he wasn't actually a threat to everything around him as well as her. She also DID say she could be shot by him. .... (heavy sigh) ... That's not everything though and we know all we wanted to about the shooting itself, too...




The critical segment for this starts at 1:10 with the reporter inside the door the bullet was fired through. It was front door glass in an ornate front door. Apparently, and I don't see reports (several I read now) countering this part, the kid broke a square of the front door glass out with the gun he was holding. He was shot in the right side, so he was facing away from the wall behind him in relation to the entry way door. The Negotiating team was outside and behind that wall. The video explains all that in detail.

There is more..and some stories were more selective in details than others.


Negotiators, who had worked their way very close to the front door, witnessed Messina pouring alcohol on the curtains inside the home and heard him threaten to burn the home, deputies said.
Source


The teen was inside his home alone with no hostages. He had a 357 Magnum in his hand and was drinking and threatening to kill himself. He took a video of the events inside the home, including this conversation speaking to his father on the phone just minutes before he died.

“You can’t find anything worth living for with me?” Nick Messina asked his son.

“I don’t know,” Andrew Messina replied.

“Really?” Nick Messina asked.

“I do know personally I really don’t want to live. So you should just let this happen if you really love me,” his son said.

Law enforcement negotiators soon cut off that call and put their negotiator on the phone with the teen.

“They are still standing out there,” Andrew said. “Go away or do something, the tension is killing me.”
Source

Here is the front door as the news shows it and a view from a distance out front. Perhaps similar to the Sniper's view.



The attorney in the video declares that not a single cop saw the gun emerge from the broken glass opening. Well, damnit. I wish they had. The cops say in the reports that the sniper thought he may have fired through the door and broken the glass that way. Thats where seeing the actual gun to register that IT was what made contact with and broke the glass might have made a POSITIVE difference. Without seeing it...assuming it was shot out was equally valid, IMO. From 65 yards away and a shot fired from inside, it wouldn't ncessarily sound like a cannon and the .357 loads .38 in a variety of powers...so noise really didn't prove either way.

Was it right to shoot? Jeeze... this is why I wish I'd never opened this... If what the kid said to his father about "let this happen", shortly before he broke the glass and was shot is taken with how the majority of the 911 call went and his own acts of pouring accelerant on curtains to threaten to burn the house down then the picture the cops had by all they COULD likely know or figure out...Well.. Tragedy!

Hindsight is 100% 20/20 for how wrong this was... Analysis, IMO, shows how easily the chain of events and horrible errors compounded. No one was right...and nobody won in this.
edit on 31-10-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: Corrected last line



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


That is about the same conclusion I came to digging through, you laid it out pretty well. It is too bad the parents didn't know much, and didn't get him some help before it came to this. Tragedy all around, I don't think the parents should win a lawsuit, they share some of the blame in the cluster# as well.......



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 

I have to agree although blame just isn't the right word in my mind. I can't say the mother did anything wrong. By her perspective and to this day, she probably believes to her core that she didn't. Wrong isn't even the right term. She just gave in to a moment of hysteria, reacting to her son with a loaded gun and very unstable emotions.

If anything ought to come from this, it's not that people can't call the cops. If someone is getting outrageous, the headlines have too many family murders all the time to just think asking for help is always out of the question.

Just, if someone is in a emotionally charged situation and can't shut down emotions themselves...think out exactly what is said to the dispatcher.
The cops never heard anything she said, they heard or read in their cars what the dispatcher figured she heard and then, what she figured they most had to hear. I'd be very curious to see the police side of this to see precisely what the wording was and how dire a situation they had reason to think they were driving into.


It doesn't change a thing tho...and he's still dead. A series of compounding mis-communication and misinterpretations..



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 


Yeah, blame isn't really the proper word, I tried to think of another and that's the closest I could come up with. It's not just that day, normally people don't just up and decide one day it's time to end it.

Something has to have been going on with him for some time, and piled up the pressure. I have been there before, it was months and months of crap just adding up, until I just felt I couldn't handle the load anymore. I might be wrong of course, but it just seems to me he probably should have been getting help long before the terrible day even happened.

That is really the best I can explain what I mean by the parents share some of the blame. Hope it makes sense.



posted on Oct, 31 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 



There is no doubt that this kid acted improperly -- He did a really dumb thing, when in an emotional state. What happened definitely stems from his bad choices. However, the ultimate result and consequence, I believe, are NOT his alone. I believe this case was severely mis-handled.

1- In the 911 call, the operator can be heard telling the mother that she should get out of the house if she believed her son was going to shoot her, to which the mother replies, "I think he's going to shoot himself." It's sad to think one of the many reasons this kid ended up dead, may have been a ditzy 911 operator who wouldn't listen, or was trying to put words into the mother's mouth, then relayed to police...

2- The kid asked for his father repeatedly, and was not allowed to speak to him. I'm not sure if there is some strange negotiator rule against this, but it seems to go against logic in a situation like this. Maybe it would hurt the fragile little ego of a "negotiator" if he didn't get to do his once-in-a-lifetime chance to be the cool and clever hero like in the movies, and instead Daddy talked him out of it... but really, we're talking about a depressed KID, who should have been allowed phone access to his parents if there was ANY chance they could talk him down.

3- If I'm understanding this right, the small army of cops was around the corner. Shall I re-post the funny picture of the gun with a curvy barrel to illustrate the stupidity of the idea that he could make someone around a corner feel "threatened" from his position? It's honestly silly.

4- I think this is a huge one, that nobody mentioned. And I mean BIG:


Where is the rest of that video?!?!?!???


It is known that the kid was recording a video from a camera inside the house during the under-an-hour (really?) "stand off." In some of the news reports we can see clips from this video. The camera appears to be stationary, maybe on a table or something. From the angle of the camera, we can clearly see the door where the shot allegedly happened. So I want to know what happened to the rest of that video.

5- etc...



posted on Nov, 1 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by iwilliam
reply to post by Wrabbit2000
 




There is no doubt that this kid acted improperly -- He did a really dumb thing, when in an emotional state. What happened definitely stems from his bad choices.


In essence and when it's all boiled to the basics...That is about where it's at. Though, as we agree, not the only one or only bad actions that day.


1- In the 911 call, the operator can be heard telling the mother that she should get out of the house if she believed her son was going to shoot her, to which the mother replies, "I think he's going to shoot himself." It's sad to think one of the many reasons this kid ended up dead, may have been a ditzy 911 operator who wouldn't listen, or was trying to put words into the mother's mouth, then relayed to police...


Part of where I think the real breakdown begins is right here. I'd really love to see the exact communication and wording. The dispatcher isn't typing a transcript of course, just the highlights and likely when we hear the typing which is right in the beginning and I believe around the time the dispatcher is asking about the kids background and experience with a gun. Shorthanded down from dispatcher to cops on a communication system that treats words as precious, it might be startling to see how that ended up at the end of the impromptu game of telephone that happened here.

That's why, after hearing the near hysterical tone of the Mother's voice in the early half and the words ....*at the time* the dispatcher is sending out a call that sounds like it rolled about every unit that little Sheriff's office had at once.... Sounds like she (The dispatcher) sent out a screaming call ..but we can't know and it gives me a real moment of pause.


2- The kid asked for his father repeatedly, and was not allowed to speak to him. I'm not sure if there is some strange negotiator rule against this, but it seems to go against logic in a situation like this.


There again.. ugh.. Tragedy building and it's never one mistake or misjudgement when people die...it's always a series, it seems. Now from public material I've got manuals in my PDF directories on law enforcement stuff like that and I can pretty much say why he was cut off and was NOT allowed to talk to his Father again. He'd turned to specific talk of death and the end with his Father and wanting to talk to him again could easily have ended with a simple goobye and a gunshot heard. It happens...and news stories carry the details often enough. In this case? Maybe it would have helped... One thing on top of another.


3- If I'm understanding this right, the small army of cops was around the corner. Shall I re-post the funny picture of the gun with a curvy barrel to illustrate the stupidity of the idea that he could make someone around a corner feel "threatened" from his position? It's honestly silly.


The first story gave me the impression they were around a corner and shielded by a wall. Like a wall extending off the corner of the building or something. Bad impression, obviously. Here is where I would very much want to see a tape of the front when it happened. I got a bad feeling I can hazard a guess here. That BIG bush... rocks.. crap all around there... and I'm thinking when he broke it. Cops there probably moved back and for the cover...over all that crap. ....and one LITTLE stumble at the same instant the glass broke and a pop was heard ....

well....... it's enough to just yell over, isn't it? The sequence is as bad movie ending as it gets but it actually happened. Given the totality of ALL the evidence I looked at...and hey, none of us are seeing half of what really exists in newspapers anyway...but with what I looked at, I can see how the mistake was made. The last one.


As far as the picture..., C'mon. Have you ever seen a video or..outside controlled medical settings..in person seen someone die of something like a gunshot? You would really want to see that or see that released? How about the mom and dad? there is a limit to the ghoul factor we get to have.. errr... A .308...does evil things to soft tissue. through and through in this case. That would be just....No. No one needs to see the kid actually get hit.
edit on 1-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

edit on 1-11-2012 by Wrabbit2000 because: minor correction.



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