Ben Stein Stuns Fox news about Mitt Romney tax cut

reply to post by jibeho

He's been all over the map over the past years on the issue of tax increases.

Right Wing: Excuse me Mr Stein, we are going to have to ask you to get under this bus for us, because all though we really liked your previous logical thoughts, today your logical thoughts don't fit our agenda.

reply to post by Taiyed


Nice cherry pick. Guess you missed everything else...

Originally posted by Taiyed
This part deserves repeating.

"The evidence is that there is no clear connection between the level of taxation and the level of economic activity," said Stein. "The biggest growth and prosperity we've ever had in this country was from roughly 1941 to 1973. That was the best years we've ever had and those were years of much higher taxes than we have now."

This was the entire point I was trying to make in my disussion:
No Mr. Romney, Rich People Do Not Create Jobs

Lowering the taxes on the highest income earners does not automatically create more jobs. Trickle down/supply-side economics DOES NOT WORK.

I'll have to do some digging, but even the a study funded by Congress concluded that there is no evidence that it does!

reply to post by newcovenant


I agree that increasing taxes for the rich would help a bit, but the effect would be extremely small... compared to what the Government spends that extra little bit of tax income is hardly enough to save America from being overcome with debt. The spending is the real problem... start with lowering the defence and military spending and you guys might be able to afford something else... something that actually helps, like new roads and hospitals... instead of causing death and destruction.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by Annee

 

Yep tax em. Them filthy rats. They worked hard to earn their money and pulled the right levers and used their brains and none of that matters because they're the scum of the earth.

I'd say most of them got it from their parents.

I was born in a trailer park in Compton - - my mother married a millionaire when I was 13.

I've been on both sides - - have you?

No one needs to live excessively.

The economy builds when the middle class spends.

There was a time of "Old Money" - - when the wealthy did feel it was their duty to put money back into the community.

Today we mostly have greed. There is no excuse today not to tax the wealthy.

Ah ha!

Here you go, this is a study paid for by Congress that concludes there is no evidence supply side/trickle down or "Reganomics" work.

Our own government concluded it, yet we are asked to vote for someone to wants to do it.

Taxes and the Economy: An Economic Analaysis of the Top Tax Rates Since 1945

the entire tax baloney is baloney.
see:
thelawthatneverwas.com
devvy.com - for the unratified 16th and 17th amendments - Rmney wants to tax imports - great start.

reply to post by Annee


I think we can all agree that a vast majority of wealthy people don't truly deserve the huge amount of wealth they have. Many of them have lied and cheated to get that money, others have inherited it... and even those people who earned it honestly still haven't worked hard enough to deserve such a disproportionate amount of wealth compared to the average person. I could start my own business, that business may become successful, and I may become a millionaire or billionaire. I probably did work extremely hard to make that business succeed... but it's not true to say I'm the single mastermind behind the whole thing. I was trained by business experts, I had accountants to manage all my book keeping, I hired hundreds of employees who were all laboring 8 to 10 hours a day...

It would not be fair if I were to earn several factors more money than them simply because I operate and own the business. Now I don't give a damn what anyone says at this point, they are just the simple facts. Wealth and economic growth is not caused by rich people, it is caused by the workers! The people who truly do all the work are the ones who are truly generate the wealth and economic activity. And the people who do the majority of the actual work are not rich people, they are the middle class workers. The middle class is the bedrock foundation of economic activity. Rich people add hardly anything... except large amounts of funding...in sums which they don't really deserve.

Clearly reducing taxes on the rich helps no one... except the rich. They aren't going to have spontaneous fits of morality and decide all their extra money should go towards generating new jobs and economic activity. In fact most rich people hoard vasts amount of money, and at this very moment there are most likely several trillion dollars stashed away in fat bank accounts... causing vast economic pressures and forcing the banks to constantly create more money to keep the economy flowing smoothly. But on the other hand increasing taxes on the rich is not very fruitful either. First of all the number of rich people is relatively low, even at high levels of taxation the rich wont give the Government all that much more to spend.

Just have a look at their budget deficits and compare some of the spending to some of their profit flowing in. It's just completely absurd, and never once in my life have I ever heard a reasonable plan for reducing the deficit, except to reduce defence spending by huge amounts. America spends more and war and defence than the next 26 countries combined... you work it out. Your debt problems are so clear America... oh so god damn clear. Wake up and realize the problem instead of thinking a temporary little band-aid is going to patch things up. Increasing taxes for the rich will have little benefit... but I say go right ahead, it's not like I'd hate seeing them have less money.

While spending is the problem and everyone paying their fair share will help but it will not fix the compounding interest at hand. We would have to be extreme with taxing and spending to even dent the 16 trillion debt.
It is only a matter of time before we hit the bottom.

reply to post by KoolerKing

While spending is the problem and everyone paying their fair share will help but it will not fix the compounding interest at hand. We would have to be extreme with taxing and spending to even dent the 16 trillion debt.

Precisely... the interest alone is a huge problem, with massive spending levels on top of that it's easy to see that this debt problem will never go away... they could tax every last cent from the American people and still probably not have enough money to pay off those debts.

The only POSSIBLE way to remove that debt is to literally write it off like other countries have done. I am completely serious when I say that... it's the only possible course of action which will work. But as for the result of doing it... I have no idea. Probably not too good.

The problem is, a lot of that debt is locked in the form of Government bonds... which cannot simply be written off.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


I'm not really sure what your saying??????If I build my own company and the company makes millions I do not deserve that money????? Sorry but that is the way the world works. Who are you to say the owner of a company
does not deserve the money. Deserve has nothing to do with it. As far as taxes I feel that it should be a flat tax across the board. Whether you make 10k or 1000000000k a year. That is the only reasonable way to go.

Originally posted by badgerprints
I find it laughable that anybody is shocked by common sense but there it is.

That's politics for ya. Politicians will promise you the moon and the stars for your vote. Once elected you never hear from them again.

reply to post by KoolerKing

I'm not really sure what your saying??????If I build my own company and the company makes millions I do not deserve that money????? Sorry but that is the way the world works.

Yes I know that's how the world works, and I also know that's exactly why we have so many economic problems in the world. We truly have cast out the idea of fairness and equality. I'm not saying you don't deserve that money, I'm saying you don't deserve SO MUCH of that money compared to what your employees are earning. They are working their fingers to the bone countless hours a day, typically 5 days a week... I don't care what you think you deserve just because you own the business, those employees also deserve some level of fairness which makes all THEIR hard work worth it.

Screw the shareholders and CEO's... what makes their jobs so much harder that they deserve so much more compared to other people? The answer is NOTHING... absolutely nothing makes their works so much harder that they deserve thousands of dollars a week when their employees may make a few hundred a week. I'm sorry but these are the simple facts of the matter, and some day you're going to have to wake up and see past your programming and realize this. The scientists and mathematicians are the ones who deserve millions and billions of dollars. They contribute the most to society out of anyone, and they are the people with the truly hard and difficult jobs... full stop.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Clearly reducing taxes on the rich helps no one... except the rich. They aren't going to have spontaneous fits of morality and decide all their extra money should go towards generating new jobs and economic activity.

Right. "Old Money" was different (not that there wasn't greed) - - - but that was a culture that felt a responsibility to society. People today are just plain greedy.

We've been losing the middle class gradually for a long time. I'd say it is partly their fault. Too many people wanting more then they can afford. People should not start families before they are financially stable. People should work toward a profession - - not just a job. Married couples used to live with their parents until they could afford to buy their own home. I know because I made all those mistakes.

But on the other hand increasing taxes on the rich is not very fruitful either. First of all the number of rich people is relatively low, even at high levels of taxation the rich wont give the Government all that much more to spend.

I don't know. Let's try it and find out. If anything it can fall under Fairness of everyone pays.

America spends more and war and defence than the next 26 countries combined... you work it out. Your debt problems are so clear America... oh so god damn clear. Wake up and realize the problem instead thinking a temporary little band-aid is going to patch things up. Increasing taxes for the rich will have little benefit... but I say go right ahead, it's not like I'd hate seeing them have less money.

I doubt anyone is arguing the cost of war. And NO - - it doesn't provide jobs and build the economy the way it used to - - - because the manufacturers are not in the country. Maybe the assemblers are - - but not the part manufacturers. So that argument is bust.

America needs to do a lot of things to get her house in order.
Flat tax is a start.
No more lobbying or special interest.
politicians should not be allowed to profit from their position of power. Insider trading rules should apply to them.
politicians should never ever be allowed to work for companies (after they have left office) that benefited from any legislation that they were apart of while in office. No kickbacks or loophole payouts from those companies in any way shape or form. No kickbacks to family members or relatives as well in any way shape or form.
Remove the federal reserve and take back the power.

That would be a good start to her back on her feet.

Politicians are here to SERVE THE PEOPLE. NOT PROFIT AND DESTROY THE PEOPLE AND OUR COUNTRY.

The reduction in the top tax rates appears to be uncorrelated with saving, investment, and productivity growth. The top tax rates appear to have little or no relation to the size of the economic pie.

That is from the .pdf I linked to a few posts above.

Our own government studies prove that lowering taxes on the wealthy doesn't work.

I have beaten this dead horse so much, I can't even tell it was originally a horse.

And still, people try and argue that yes -- wealthy people make the economy strong.

When the middle class (which is the largest segment of the population) spends money, then the economy does well.

I have always liked Ben Stein...smart guy.

The truth is, if we really-really want to not only balance the yealy budget but also attack the national debt...we have to do something different.

Let's face the facts.

The interest rates right now are not making the national debt a big deal...but...hold onto your horses. When this economy starts turning and the interest rates start climbing...we are in for a big surprise.

The absolute must is to balance the budget so we are not adding to the national debt every year. THEN, we have to increase the incoming revenue and direct THAT toward the national debt. If the interest rates rise just a few percentage points, the lion's share of our incoming revenue (as it is right now) is going to go toward paying interest only on the debt. This is a serious problem folks. If half of the incoming revenue starts going toward interest alone...then we either make massive cuts in spending...yes, defense included...or we increase revenues by increasing taxes. Logic says you have to do both.

This is economics 101 people...this is not a hard problem to see...it is also not a tremendous problem to overcome if you just use common sense.

Therein lies the issue. I really don't think anyone is serious. The Repubs say they want to reduce spending...well..except for their particular interests....if we don';t do all of this...cut spending, balance the budget and increase taxes to pay down the overall national debt....then someone is trying to sell you something stinky.

reply to post by Annee

Too many people wanting more then they can afford. People should not start families before they are financially stable. People should work toward a profession - - not just a job. Married couples used to live with their parents until they could afford to buy their own home. I know because I made all those mistakes.

That's very true as well... but it's also the fault of the banks for knowingly handing out loans to unfit debtors.

I don't know. Let's try it and find out. If anything it can fall under Fairness of everyone pays.

I think it has been done a few times using a few different techniques. It never seems to work out to very much, which is the reason I refrain from promoting such an idea. I made a thread a while ago in which some basic calculations were done by other posters:
American Wealth Inequality Represented Graphically (155,000,000 vs 400)

Ben Stein has now been black balled from Fox news. They probably chased him out of the studio.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by Annee

 

Too many people wanting more then they can afford. People should not start families before they are financially stable. People should work toward a profession - - not just a job. Married couples used to live with their parents until they could afford to buy their own home. I know because I made all those mistakes.

That's very true as well... but it's also the fault of the banks for knowingly handing out loans to unfit debtors.

I don't know. Let's try it and find out. If anything it can fall under Fairness of everyone pays.

I think it has been done a few times using a few different techniques. It never seems to work out to very much, which is the reason a refrain from promoting such an idea. I made a thread a while ago in which some basic calculations were done:
American Wealth Inequality Represented Graphically (155,000,000 vs 400)

If you are an unfit debtor, the bank did not run after you down the street tackle you, and force you to take out a loan or mortgage.

Look, personal responsibility? I can't believe how many stupid people fooled themselves into thinking they could afford a mortgage in the first place. And then there are the idiots who got those horrible adjustable rate mortgages. I'd rather rent than get into one of those...

I also would do everything in my power to sell my place if the housing market was cutting into my equity. I know it's not always possible, but I'd be trying my best to GTFO out of my home if my value was decreasing steadily.