Question about gravity.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by spy66


How would the earths gravitational force effect a mass inside a vacuume that runs from N to S?
The vacuume or the 10kg mass will never see the force/mass working on the out side walls of this tunnel.

If it does. What kind of physical force would act as the gravitational force that makes the 10kg mass fall?

Holy crap...and someone starred the post...

This is a central question of physics, are waves of force carried by the space itself or some medium. Most these days think it's space itself that carries the wave. Others think that some ether, or substrate medium, carries these waves.

It should be relatively obvious, however, that it is not air which carries the wave, because light travels from the sun, through empty space, to the earth.

does gravity work via waves? how do energetic forces act upon an object within a vacuum,, if a vacuum contains no energy, or forces, or anything?

edit on 24-10-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Another Teacher telling High School Students that Gravity is a FORCE when it is NOT. The really SAD THING is that you cannot prove it to be a FORCE yet you continue to Teach that it is.

SAD! Split Infinity

No, it's the "Force of Gravity". Gravity itself isn't a force...depending of course on how you define it..., but it does exert a force, the gravitational force, as a result of mass and distance.
It may be wise to do a little research, you have some faulty ideas that would take much too long to extrapolate on here.

Remember that newton defined a force simply as anything which causes another thing to move. If you jump, something causes you to move back down, thus by the definition here given for force, some force is acting on you. What exactly is the nature of that force is of course open to speculation. But, that a force is acting on you is clear by this definition of force.

reply to post by renegadeloser


this may be a lil off topic then,,,, but why does light move in a frequency? or crest and trough "wave"?,,

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by spy66

My question is:

If you built a vacuume tunnel that runs from the North pole throught earths center and to the South Pole. And on the North Pole you placed a 10kg weight into the vacuume tunnel. Would the weight fall/travel to the South Pole?

My teacher/Professor tells me that the 10kg weight would fall to the South Pole. I am telling him that the 10kg weight would not travel anywhere.

I have also googled this question and found that a lot of other people agree with my teacher. But they are all wrong. Does anybody here know why my teacher is wrong?

A Vacuum tunnel through the center of the Earth is impossible of course but if you forget REALITY and HEAT....the object would fall until it reached the Center of the Earths Gravity Well. It would then pass by it for a moment where it would loose speed and come to a halt and then fall back toward the earths Gravity Well from the other direction. This would go on until it finally came to a stop dead center.
Split Infinity

Finally the right answer. Thank you. Some replies here really scared me.

Of course it would start to DECELERATE once it passes the Earth's center, still traveling towards the south pole, but slower and slower and likely never make it. At some point, it will fall back....ultimately rest in the center. No other scenario would make any sense.

reply to post by flexy123

but slower and slower and likely never make it.

It would "make it" exactly the same distance from the center as it started. Conservation of energy. Gravity does not remove energy. Movement against gravity converts kinetic energy into potential energy. Since there is no friction there is nothing to remove energy.

reply to post by flexy123

THANK YOU FLEXY 123! FINALLY SOMEONE WITH SOME KNOWLEDGE! What KILLS ME is the people who are using non-applicable concepts, math, physics, formulas and actually stating that Gravity is a FORCE thus they are using rules that may apply to a Force such as EM Forces and the like...that DO NOT APPLY OR CAN BE APPLIED TO GRAVITY or it's effect....as well as a TEACHER telling me that they are going to go teach complete nonsense....Scares the HELL OUT OF ME!

Some say IGNORANCE IS BLISS....maybe it is just stupidity. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

using non-applicable concepts, math, physics, formulas

Right. Those non-applicable concepts, math, physics, and formulas which send probes to other planets and the outer reaches of the Solar system. Means nothing, of course.

reply to post by Phage

The reason why you are not getting this is that your concepts of what calculations and rules you believe you can use for this topic do not apply to the topics stated action.

You seem to keep forgetting that the effect of Gravity will change inversely as the object passes by the center of Earths Gravity Well. You seem to be applying your concept of what you believe will happen to effect of Gravity upon the falling object is only occurring from two different directions when in fact Gravitational Effect at the Earths Gravity Well is occurring from every single possible point of vectored direction from the Gravity Wells center.

It is not like Gravitational effect only is occurring and having effect from two directions. THIS is where you have made your mistake. You are treating Gravity as you would a Magnetic Force in fact you are treating it EXACTLY LIKE A MAGNETIC FORCE. It is not.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

The reason why you are not getting this is that your concepts of what calculations and rules you believe you can use for this topic do not apply to the topics stated action.

The calculations are identical to those used for orbital mechanics. We are dealing with an orbit with a semi-minor axis of length 0.

It is not like Gravitational effect only is occurring and having effect from two directions.

Actually it is. The sum of the vectors makes it so.

You are treating Gravity as you would a Magnetic Force in fact you are treating it EXACTLY LIKE A MAGNETIC FORCE.

No. Actually not. If magentic force were involved it would be more complex because induction effects would be occuring. This would, in fact, bring the laws of thermodynamics into play (still no comment on how the pendulum would violate them?). In fact, if this problem were treated a magnetic, the ball would indeed come to rest.

reply to post by Phage

The concept of Perpetual Motion is not Possible and breaks one of the rules of Thermodynamics. Also...this topic cannot be applied to Orbital Mechanics as this topic is describing an object actually falling directly into the CENTER OF A GRAVITY WELL.

That is not what occurs during any Orbit of an object with Mass. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

The concept of Perpetual Motion is not Possible and breaks one of the rules of Thermodynamics.

That's right. The second law (Since you didn't seem to know which one, I helped you out. But before you said it broke "all the laws".). Because friction creates an entropic state. In this thought experiment we have eliminated friction by creating a perfect vacuum. We are talking about the effects of gravity on a spherical body which is passing through the center of another spherical body with a complete lack of friction. We have eliminated entropy in our system. Ta da! Now, if you want to start selectively bringing little bits of reality into the picture, yes, the ball will eventually stop. But we are not doing that, are we? Considering only the effects of gravity, the ball will oscillate forever. Just like a frictionless pendulum would swing forever.

That is not what occurs during any Orbit of an object with Mass.

The force vectors acting on the object are the same. The sum of the vectors originates at the center of mass.

reply to post by Phage

Ah...you used the F word again! FORCE! For the umteenth time...GRAVITY IS NOT A FORCE!

As far as your thoughts of lack of entropy just because you are in a Frictionless Environment...if that was true than Celestial Bodies would never have been created after the Big Bang. By your thoughts...the original super heated plasma would just continue moving near to each other then back again.

SOMETHING had to bring the first group of particles to a stop and allow a gathering to create a Star or Planet. THIS is Gravitational Effect and any Gravity Well will cause any object of mass that comes into position at the center of that well to eventually rest. if this were not so...our Universe would be filled with a bunch of floating particles never to gather. Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

SOMETHING had to bring the first group of particles to a stop and allow a gathering to create a Star or Planet.

Nothing in the Universe is at a stop. Nothing is stationary.

reply to post by Phage

This is true...but because Space/Time is also in Motion. As far as this topic is concerned...you are confusing conditions that occur around a Gravity Well and are not taking into account conditions at the Center Point of a Gravity Well.

The Center Point of a Gravity Well is an expression of ONE DIMENSIONAL SPACE/TIME. In any Center Point of any environment where a Singularity is being expressed...all motion is effected to cease as well as time. This is the principle of our Universal Space/Time Geometry.

What you have described is behavior of an object encountering a FORCE. This is not what this topic describes. It is describing an object Falling into and through a Gravity Well. Entropy of Kinetic Energy is a MUST.
Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity

This is true

Yes. Yes it is.

Point of any environment where a Singularity is being expressed...all motion is effected to cease as well as time.

We are not talking about a singularity. Neither you, I, or anybody knows what happens within a singularity.

Entropy of Kinetic Energy is a MUST.

According to which law of thermodynamics?
Remember? The first law says energy is conserved.

Originally posted by flexy123

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by spy66

My question is:

If you built a vacuume tunnel that runs from the North pole throught earths center and to the South Pole. And on the North Pole you placed a 10kg weight into the vacuume tunnel. Would the weight fall/travel to the South Pole?

My teacher/Professor tells me that the 10kg weight would fall to the South Pole. I am telling him that the 10kg weight would not travel anywhere.

I have also googled this question and found that a lot of other people agree with my teacher. But they are all wrong. Does anybody here know why my teacher is wrong?

A Vacuum tunnel through the center of the Earth is impossible of course but if you forget REALITY and HEAT....the object would fall until it reached the Center of the Earths Gravity Well. It would then pass by it for a moment where it would loose speed and come to a halt and then fall back toward the earths Gravity Well from the other direction. This would go on until it finally came to a stop dead center.
Split Infinity

Finally the right answer. Thank you. Some replies here really scared me.

Of course it would start to DECELERATE once it passes the Earth's center, still traveling towards the south pole, but slower and slower and likely never make it. At some point, it will fall back....ultimately rest in the center. No other scenario would make any sense.

You started off strong, but had a very weak finish. It's very simple. Is the force pulling the object towards the center, accellerating it, the same amount of force that pulls the object towards the center decellerating it? If the force is the same, then the decelleration will match the accelleration. That means that the object will move the same distance in both directions, and will never come to a stop. Otherwise, explain to me how the same amount of force acts on an object more going one way than it does going the other way.

reply to post by Phage

Again...you are using models that do not apply to an object falling toward and passing though a Gravity Well. Entropy of Kinetic Energy occurs in the same way a rock thrown into the air eventually stops going up and starts falling down.

Now you are stating that Gravity is creating an equal amount of Potential Kinetic Energy as it falls which is true but that Kinetic Energy is transfered the moment the rock hits the ground. This is not the same form of entropy that occurs when an object reaches the Center Point of a Gravity Well.

Energy Conservation as well as Transfer can be thrown out the window as at the Center Point of a Gravity Well...the Object is no longer subject to standard cause and effect as an object distant from the center. The object is most likely to under go Gravitic Compression of such magnitude that it will change state never mind the FANTASY that the object will remain say a Steel Ball.

All Matter or Elements or Molecules or Compounds of will under go Massive Gravitic Compression. This is just one of the Specialized Effects that occur within the Center point of a Gravity Well of a Celestial body the Mass of Earth. This is not Friction in the Conventional Sense as it is the Warping or Folding of Space Time.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Phage

 

Again...you are using models that do not apply to an object falling toward and passing though a Gravity Well. Entropy of Kinetic Energy occurs in the same way a rock thrown into the air eventually stops going up and starts falling down.

Now you are stating that Gravity is creating an equal amount of Potential Kinetic Energy as it falls which is true but that Kinetic Energy is transfered the moment the rock hits the ground. This is not the same form of entropy that occurs when an object reaches the Center Point of a Gravity Well.

Energy Conservation as well as Transfer can be thrown out the window as at the Center Point of a Gravity Well...the Object is no longer subject to standard cause and effect as an object distant from the center. The object is most likely to under go Gravitic Compression of such magnitude that it will change state never mind the FANTASY that the object will remain say a Steel Ball.

All Matter or Elements or Molecules or Compounds of will under go Massive Gravitic Compression. This is just one of the Specialized Effects that occur within the Center point of a Gravity Well of a Celestial body the Mass of Earth. This is not Friction in the Conventional Sense as it is the Warping or Folding of Space Time.

Split Infinity

Not that you'll listen, but, this is very simple:

Force = dp/dt, the rate of change in momentum.

Now, pick something up. Drop it. p = mv.
Did v change? Yes, it was zero, then it wasn't.
v changed, so p changed.

dp/dt, the change in p divided by the change in t, it's not zero.

That's the force.

Therefore gravity is a force, by definition. It caused a change in momentum, which is a force.

reply to post by Moduli

If Gravity was a FORCE...it would not be able to exist as it does. It is not a Force. It may act like one on occasion but not always. Split Infinity