Question about gravity.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


I only used the word "pull" to contrast the whole idea of atmosphere pushing us down creating gravity. I realized at the time that some people might take issue with it, but I was using the world on a completely superficial basis. The way I see it, the world's greatest minds have some trouble understanding and explaining gravity 100% so I'm not even going to try. Although I personally abide by the idea of warped space-time causing a dimple that we are "falling" into causing the effects of gravity.


I just wanted to comment on the whole idea of atmosphere creating gravity, which as I said about 520 times in my previous post ( ) is absolutely false and demonstrably so. I probably got a little carried away

OP Consider these assertions in your dissatisfied state:


Mass cannot create Gravity.
Gravity as we call it, is more likely a quantum density gradient in which Mass exists as a consequence rather than a cause.
Space is "something" (probably a phase changing, superfluid vacuum of Quanta) rather than nothing.
The conventional vacum you propose would never have nothing in it...ultimately you'd have a tube full of quantum bits/foam, all with their own individual relavatistic influence on your weight.


Aside from the practicalities of NEVER ybeing able to undertake the experiment...dont get too disheartened by those who presume to lecture on Gravity but can't actually explain the basic questions:

Why is it so weak
Where is the Graviton/interacting particle.

If your teacher of whoever on here knew the answer for sure; they wouldn't be your teacher/on here.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Because inside a vacuum. There is no energy, there is no working gravity to make the mass sink to the other end/down. If the mass sinks that means the " vacuum column " must have weight at the center of earth.

I think the whole clue with this problem is that earth is just a distraction to make people think that the mass outside the vacuum tunnel have any effect on the 10kg mass.

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

Actually you are wrong, there is energy in a vacuum, in fact a method of space propulsion being discussed uses lasers to extract energy out of the vacuum, although that has nothing to do with the topic on hand. Here is a question, does the sun's gravity effect Earth? Is there not a vacuum between the two? What makes you think gravity does not work in a vacuum? Why do entire galaxies effect each other through gravity through vast distances in the vacuum of space. It has been told to you many times, I don't know why you persist in your false ideas.

reply to post by James1982

Here is the most obvious problem, among many many serious problems, with your idea. If the atmosphere is what "pushes" us down causing what we call gravity, then what is pulling or pushing the atmosphere down? LOL!

This is very easy to understand. our atmosphere consists of different gass particles with different mass/weight. The leighter particles keep the heavier particles down.

Colse to earth surface you will always find heavier gas particles than you will at 60 000ft.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by James1982

 

Here is the most obvious problem, among many many serious problems, with your idea. If the atmosphere is what "pushes" us down causing what we call gravity, then what is pulling or pushing the atmosphere down? LOL!

This is very easy to understand. our atmosphere consists of different gass particles with different mass/weight. The leighter particles keep the heavier particles down.

Colse to earth surface you will always find heavier gas particles than you will at 60 000ft.

Ok, he's trolling. Apparently we have no gravity when we go up in altitude!

Originally posted by SplitInfinity

I see you have Googled some nonsense. NASA has calculated that the Moon is moving further away from Earth every year and will eventually be lost to Earth. Look it up on the NASA site. This has already been reported in Scientific American and Discover Magazine.

As far as the Pendulum...as I listed...you are using equations that deal with a FORCE...and even though Gravity is wrongly labeled THE WEAK FORCE...it is not actually a FORCE. Gravity is an expression of SPACE/TIME GEOMETRY that has been warped via One Dimentionality or Singularity.
Split Infinity

As someone who gets paid to teach the stuff, I can verify that Phage is 100% correct in what he has stated and that you have some fundamental mistakes in your way of thinking. Since I have to get ready for work and go prevent teens from doing exactly what you're doing, I'll leave it to others to correct you. There also isn't enough time or pay to teach you here on a message board.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Here is the most obvious problem, among many many serious problems, with your idea. If the atmosphere is what "pushes" us down causing what we call gravity, then what is pulling or pushing the atmosphere down? LOL!

Did you read what this guy wrote. I just answered him. I am not trolling just exchanging knowledge with people who dont really understand the prinsiples of gravity.

reply to post by spy66


How would lighter particles keep heavier particles down? If there is no gravity, none of the particles would have any weight to keep anything down. lol

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by James1982

 

Here is the most obvious problem, among many many serious problems, with your idea. If the atmosphere is what "pushes" us down causing what we call gravity, then what is pulling or pushing the atmosphere down? LOL!

This is very easy to understand. our atmosphere consists of different gass particles with different mass/weight. The leighter particles keep the heavier particles down.

Colse to earth surface you will always find heavier gas particles than you will at 60 000ft.

And......... what causes the heavier gas to collect closer to the Earth? GRAVITY!

The way the atmosphere behaves in this regard is a RESULT of gravity, not a CAUSE of it.

I'm starting to think troll here.... nobody can be this dense.

If you were right, Spy, people high up in airplanes would experience almost no gravity. People or objects in vacuum chambers would experience no gravity. Both of these aren't true, and neither is your theory.

Originally posted by Jukiodone
OP Consider these assertions in your dissatisfied state:

Mass cannot create Gravity.
Gravity as we call it, is more likely a quantum density gradient in which Mass exists as a consequence rather than a cause.
Space is "something" (probably a phase changing, superfluid vacuum of Quanta) rather than nothing.
The conventional vacum you propose would never have nothing in it...ultimately you'd have a tube full of quantum bits/foam, all with their own individual relavatistic influence on your weight.

Aside from the practicalities of NEVER ybeing able to undertake the experiment...dont get too disheartened by those who presume to lecture on Gravity but can't actually explain the basic questions:

Why is it so weak
Where is the Graviton/interacting particle.

If your teacher of whoever on here knew the answer for sure; they wouldn't be your teacher/on here.

While it is true that we do not know in absolute terms that mass causes gravitation, there is a strong observational correlation and theoretical understanding that allows us to emulate the mass/gravity link mathematically and produce meaningful results in all cases observed so far.

That being said, your suspicion of the inferences drawn by physicists in answering these questions is healthy and shows that you are thinking critically, for which I applaud (and have starred) you.

As for your suggestions about the nature of space and gravitation, it would be good if you could elaborate and describe these ideas with a view to providing something which may be testable by experimentation (Scientific Method).

Good work!

Some people you just can't reach.

This magical frictionless vacuum tube through the Earth is a good academic example problem that really is a great tool for exploring fundamental physics principles.

I applaud the one post that made mention of the difference between magnetism and gravity. The Earth has gravity due to mass, but is also magnetic because of the iron core.

Aside from what has already been explained ad nauseum, that the object will eventually reach a resting point at the center after a number of oscillations, another active participant in the behavior of the object in the tube is the Earth's inner and outer core - of iron.

If the object has any composition that responds to magnetic fields it will also be acted upon by the magnetic nature of the core. This would, I would guess, do something. Probably slow it down in some way.

Experts?

I'm not an emag expert, and it's been years since I've done anything in that area.

Lets all have a moment of silence for the OP's physics teacher....

how much mass has the sun lost since its birth? and has this had an effect on its reign of gravity over the planets?
and will it continue to lose its grasp or alter the orbits in the future?

reply to post by Phage


When you say "splitinfinty,, your saying a lot of nonsense,,, your wrong"

you are saying what he is saying, is not an accurate portrayal of the models you know right? you are not comparing what he is saying to how reality may exist... because a lot of what he has said in this thread, seems like it could relate to the way reality functions,, if you would read it and think about it... instead of just saying hes wrong,,, can you explain how and why he is wrong,, and how and why you know you envision the proper way reality functions?

because man does not know the original conditions regarding quality and quantity of space and energy...
how can we now tell apart the causes from the effects,, the primaries from the results? or are effects of "energy" existing in any form equal to that energy having a constant force? and so if "gravity" and what ever it entails is an unavoidable result of mass being present in space,,, then gravity is a "force" that mass has.... i guess how im thinking about this,, is only prevalent to comprehending what is the ultimate and specific cause of gravity,,and how and why it is a result of mass in space,,, whether its bending "space" or an energetic attraction...or a number of other ideas and theories..

Originally posted by spy66


How would the earths gravitational force effect a mass inside a vacuume that runs from N to S?
The vacuume or the 10kg mass will never see the force/mass working on the out side walls of this tunnel.

If it does. What kind of physical force would act as the gravitational force that makes the 10kg mass fall?

Holy crap...and someone starred the post...

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by spy66


How would the earths gravitational force effect a mass inside a vacuume that runs from N to S?
The vacuume or the 10kg mass will never see the force/mass working on the out side walls of this tunnel.

If it does. What kind of physical force would act as the gravitational force that makes the 10kg mass fall?

Holy crap...and someone starred the post...

does gravity work via waves? how do energetic forces act upon an object within a vacuum,, if a vacuum contains no energy, or forces, or anything?

reply to post by spy66


a vacuum doesn't cancel out gravity... It only removes the oxygen/air.
your science teacher should obviously explain things to you better.

reply to post by PurpleChiten

Another Teacher telling High School Students that Gravity is a FORCE when it is NOT. The really SAD THING is that you cannot prove it to be a FORCE yet you continue to Teach that it is.

SAD! Split Infinity

reply to post by James1982

You are right. I was too nit picky. Sorry. LOL!
Split Infinity

reply to post by spy66


Your teacher is not wrong. Imagine the tube didn't go all the way through the earth, instead ending a mile in. Wouldn't the weight fall? of course it would. The force on the weight is the same regardless of how deep the hole is so of course it will fall.

Now to the question of how far it will fall. It will start accelerating as it falls, the strength of the force acting on it diminishing on it as it goes. Once it reaches the center there will be no force acting on it, but it will be moving very fast so it's momentum will carry it on. After it passes the center there will be a gravitational force acting on it to slow it down. This force will be the same in magnitude to the force that was speeding it up earlier. Eventually it will reach the south pole, just as it stops moving. Then it will start to fall back into the earth, eventually reaching the north pole again.

There is essentially no difference between this problem, an object in orbit, and a pendulum on your desk.