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posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 08:52 PM

larger the mass,, the larger area of vacuum to over come the mass,,.,. its as if the vacuum is trying to squeeze everything out of existence,,, or just the strength of the grip of the area of vacuum around a mass,,
The force is between two masses. It has nothing to do with surface area.

because gravity would act like a wave,,,, it would be like a frequency pattern of two photons in the slit experiment,,
What does that have to do with "trying to compress it into vacuum"? Waves (and photons) are directional, gravity is not.

but it could be similar to the reasons of my first two answers..
If you mean because they don't make sense, you could be right.

edit on 10/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 08:55 PM

Originally posted by Phage

larger the mass,, the larger area of vacuum to over come the mass,,.,. its as if the vacuum is trying to squeeze everything out of existence,,, or just the strength of the grip of the area of vacuum around a mass,,
The force is between two masses. It has nothing to do with surface area.

because gravity would act like a wave,,,, it would be like a frequency pattern of two photons in the slit experiment,,
What does that have to do with "trying to compress it into vacuum"? Waves (and photons) are directional, gravity is not.

but it could be similar to the reasons of my first two answers..
If you mean because they don't make sense, you could be right.

edit on 10/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

well how and why does your view of gravity make sense? what does it mean? what is it that the mass is doing to attract other mass very far away?

you will say curve space time,,, whats that mean?
edit on 26-10-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

for the second question,, it has to do with it,, my line of thought was,.,.,. instead of twisting space time,,, i was view gravity as if a mass being in space and moving through space especially while rotating and revolving and moving,, scrunches up space like a black hole,, or tornado,, and so even if a smaller mass comes near the furthest reach of grasp that the masses gravity has,, which is this attracting swirl of space,,, it will fall into its orbit.... and this swirl would be like 3d tornado/gravity field... thingy..
edit on 26-10-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 08:59 PM

well how and why does your view of gravity make sense? what does it mean?
It means that bodies respond very predictably to very well established rules under the effects of gravity.

what is it that the mass is doing to attract other mass very far away?
I don't know. It would be interesting to find out but it doesn't change the fact that while we don't know what it is, we know what it does. And what it does is act like a force between mass which is proportionate to the product of the masses and inversely proportionate to the distance between them.

posted on Oct, 26 2012 @ 08:59 PM

well how and why does your view of gravity make sense? what does it mean?
It means that bodies respond very predictably to very well established rules under the effects of gravity.

what is it that the mass is doing to attract other mass very far away?
I don't know. It would be interesting to find out but it doesn't change the fact that while we don't know what it is, we know what it does. And what it does is act like a force between masses which is proportionate to the product of the masses and inversely proportionate to the distance between them. It also act like a distortion of space-time. Look at it either way and you get the same results.

edit on 10/26/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 04:51 PM
Hello Split, I see you are participating in this thread.

Am I to understand that someone postulated that in a PERFECT vacuum that this ball would continue to swing back and forth and will continue to do so since no friction is present?

So, a PERFECT vacuum and no friction in contact with the ball in a pendulum motion. Do I have this right?

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 04:55 PM

I apologize for the character attack, not good form in a discussion like this.

No Biggie! LOL! Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 05:11 PM

Originally posted by moebius

I am sorry but this is pseudoscientific nonsense.

Feel free to refute my statement by providing a mathematical formulation of your post.

If Steven Hawking...a Renowned Physicist of our time who has spent a major part of his life cannot come up with the proper Math to describe what is happening in a Black Hole or Singularity...a person such as myself who simply enjoys Physics as a HOBBY...I believe would be very hard pressed to pull out of my hat those equations! LOL!

I can only provide a Line of Logic and as far as your saying it to be nonsense...I challenge YOU to disprove the obvious Logical Connection I have provided. Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 05:19 PM

Hello Split, I see you are participating in this thread.

Am I to understand that someone postulated that in a PERFECT vacuum that this ball would continue to swing back and forth and will continue to do so since no friction is present?

So, a PERFECT vacuum and no friction in contact with the ball in a pendulum motion. Do I have this right?

MIKADO! It is so good to hear from you! I am VERY GLAD that you are able to post given your Logical Thinking Mind! YES! That is what is being said and discussed here and also what I am completely disagreeing with...however the original question was a FANTASY FRICTION ABSENT TUNNEL that is straight through the center of Earths Gravity Well and in a Straight Line in Diameter. They ask what will happen if an object such as a 10 Kilo Metal Ball was dropped into this hole and what would happen.

Many are siting Potential Kinetic Energy build up within the object being great enough to bring it all the way through the Earth and all the way back to the top of the Radius on the other side and they are stating it will continue to do this forever without any loss of Energy.

I am siting a Gravity Wells specific special conditions and effect as it applies to any Large Celestial Body such as a Black Hole which does cause Kinetic Energy Entropy...what are your thoughts? Split Infinity...p.s. I am smiling!

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 05:42 PM

Originally posted by Kr0nZ

But gravity is a conservative force, so you get the same amount of energy out of it that was put in, unless that energy is transferred to a non-conservative medium (air-friction in most cases, but we are talking about a perfect vacuum)

So what is the non-conservative force that you seem to think the energy is transferring to?

K....For a moment...look at it from my position...that being that Gravity is an EFFECT or expression of One Dimensionality. Then look at what happens to anything that is drawn into a Black Hole. The path of Light or Photons is not effected by a Magnetic Field...but Photons traveling at 186,300 Miles Per Second that are traveling close enough to the Gravitic Effect of a Black Hole are directed into the Black Hole as well as any Matter that is captured by this Massive Gravitational Effect which I state as Space/Time Curvature or an expression of One Dimensionality or Singularity within our Universes 10 or 11 Dimensional State.

Now once captured...it never is allowed out. Now using that model look at a Celestial Body of great Mass such as Earth. Even though Earth has no where near the same incredible amount of Gravitational effect as a Black Hole they both have a Gravity Well.

Now a Black Hole has Physics Busting Special Effects that our best Physicists have not been able to explain which create an Entropy of Potential Kinetic Energy. Think about those Special Effects being present at the Center of Earths Gravity Well but nowhere near as great as at the center of a Black Holes Gravity Well but present just the same.

This smaller but present Special Effect is what will cause Entropy of Potential Kinetic Energy. I cannot provide the Math as it is above everyone's head...but I can provide the Line of Logic. I hoped that helped. Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 05:53 PM

Don't worry about it. Life is too short and fragile. As long as a person keeps their Mind Open...they will always have something to contribute. It is the Close Minded among us that make posting a chore.

Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Kr0nZ

But gravity is a conservative force, so you get the same amount of energy out of it that was put in, unless that energy is transferred to a non-conservative medium (air-friction in most cases, but we are talking about a perfect vacuum)

So what is the non-conservative force that you seem to think the energy is transferring to?

I believe that within the Special Effects that a Celestial Body present and especially a Black Hole although these Special Effects are present to a smaller degree in any Large Body of Mass...Transference is occurring out of our Universal Reality and possibly being ejected into either another Divergent Universe in our Group or into an Overlapping Universal Reality in a different Universal Group than our own that is in a Membrane Overlap of our Universal State. Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 08:51 PM
Mikado...I am Dying to hear what you have to say about this topics question. Don't make me wait too long as I have had a tough Month and could use some cheering up! LOL! Your Friend, Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:00 PM

While you're waiting for Mikado, have you considered SOHO's orbit of the L1? Of course it's not perfectly analogous to the conditions in the OP's thought experiment but I think there are enough similarities to warrant the use of this tangible evidence.

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:26 PM

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation

While you're waiting for Mikado, have you considered SOHO's orbit of the L1? Of course it's not perfectly analogous to the conditions in the OP's thought experiment but I think there are enough similarities to warrant the use of this tangible evidence.

Your presented evidence is not applicable to the Cause and Effect Special Conditions present in this topics question. This question warrants Special Circumstances which do not apply to Standard Orbital Mechanics. This is why I brought up the breakdown of Physics which occur in a Black Hole.

In that Celestial Body...there is a total Breakdown of what we think we know. Hawking's thought He could figure it out but FAILED...miserably. It is that Specialized Effect which is present to a much smaller degree at the Center of Earths Gravity Well.

It is also the reason that the Proposed Dropped Object will not continue through the Center of Gravity of Earth and continue to the very same distance and reach the end of Earths Radius from the center. It will undergo a Breakdown of Physics effect of Potential Kinetic Energy Entropy. This is not because any FORCE is acting against it but rather that 3 Dimensional Distance is being Effected and Changed in Earths Gravity Well. This is also true for the 3-D Space/Time that surrounds the Planet.

So the Physics and Equations that some have used here will not apply for the Special Circumstances and Realities that exist at the Center of earths Gravity Well. Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 09:42 PM

So the Physics and Equations that some have used here will not apply for the Special Circumstances and Realities that exist at the Center of earths Gravity Well.

Not to be difficult but I don't see the special circumstances. I see no similarities between the center of Earth and a Singularity of a Black Hole. I see the center of the Earth as a point of equilibrium much like L1. I don't get why you view the center as a point to which all of Earth's Gravity pushes towards? Hope my questions make sense.

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 10:27 PM

I will pin point exactly where you are confusing the issue...in your Reply you used the word...PUSHES...as well as the word...TOWARDS. I will explain each words use as you see it and what the Reality of what is occurring truly is in your question.

The word...PUSHES...infers that there is some form of FORCE being applied that as you have stated...is PUSHING everything towards the CENTER OF GRAVITY.

The word...TOWARDS..infers a specific LINEAR DIRECTION in a straight line and again is INTRINSIC to the concept of a FORCE doing the PUSHING.

Neither of these WORDS apply to GRAVITY or what is occurring at the CENTER POINT OF A GRAVITY WELL. First off you need to stop thinking in 3 or 4-D. This means you have to allow your mind to break the constraints of both Distance, Three Dimensional Constructs as well as LINEAR TIME. With Linear Time represented by the 4th Dimensional State.

Next you have to allow your Mind to stop believing GRAVITY is a FORCE...it is NOT. If you can imagine these two or perhaps three concepts for a moment I believe I can explain. We do not know for certain WHY but we do know from observation that any amount of Mass will attract and be attracted to other objects of Mass. Now when we get into quantities of MASS on the Celestial Body Scale such as a Planet or Star or Black Hole or Greater Constructs such as Galaxies...we find that HUGE QUANTITIES of MASS not only attract other Masses but also ATTRACT ENERGY such as LIGHT changing it's Quantum Particle/Wave Form...ie...PHOTON'S angle of travel towards the Huge Mass of such Celestial Bodies.

In REALITY...PHOTONS OR LIGHT do not change their travel vectors but rather THE SPACE/TIME in which they travel HAS BEEN CHANGED. Distance and Dimensionality have changed. Light does not change direction as it is swallowed by a Black Hole...the Reality is that the SPACE/TIME GEOMETRY has changed and the Photons are still following a direct path but along a CURVE. So in this case words such as PUSHES OR PUSHING as well as words like TOWARDS are not applicable as NO FORCE IS PUSHING LIGHT TOWARD the Gravity Well of a BLACK HOLE.

The EARTH has a Gravity Well but it is no where near capable of Creating the SPACE/TIME CURVATURE that a Black Hole is creating...but still...there is a SMALL BUT PRESENT aspect of what Special Effects a Black Hole has to swallow Matter and Energy and create a complete and total LOSS OR ENTROPY OF KINETIC ENERGY.

The Earth has this ability also to a Small Degree and since the Earth is much smaller of a Mass than a Black Hole this Special Effect is only present very close to Earths Center of Gravity. At the Earths Center of Gravity a Falling Object in the Fantasy Conditions set forth on this topic would be capable of exacting a Small ENTROPY OF KINETIC ENERGY upon the Falling object as it passed through the Gravity Well. This Special Effect is enough to cause enough Loss or Entropy of Kinetic Energy that the object even in a Fantasy Friction Free Tunnel will not have enough Kinetic Energy to allow it to rise all the way to the other side of the tunnel once it has passed through Earths Gravity Well and encountering this Special Effect.

This is the BEST I can explain it. I hope it helped. Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 27 2012 @ 10:45 PM
You are still failing to understand that this is something you are imagining and have absolutely no evidence to back up. Just because you can imagine something doesn't make it true.

Many minds greater than yours, mine or others here have participated in the thought experiment and come to the conclusion that the weight would travel back and forth indefinitely just as we have and have explained. They have extended what they gained from that thought experiment to develop astronomical models that have proven true. They went further and used the results to create satellites that orbit the earth based on the principles gained through the thought experiment.

It has been verified, it has been used for other purposes, it has merit. Your imaginary idea has no merit, no support, no proof, no....anything. It has only you claiming it is so with nothing to back it up but faulty logic that has been explained to you time and again.

Anyone reading this thread with even an inkling of knowledge as far as physics is concerned can see that. You are still failing to comprehend it. The motto of the site is "Deny Ignorance". We have given you every means possible with which to deny it, yet you are still embracing it.

You can continue on and keep believing that what you are saying is possible and makes sense, but without proof or support of any kind to back it up, you are merely convincing yourself, not others who look at it critically and see the flaws.

The explanations stand and are correct. If you wish to continue in the misinterpretation, you are on your own. This isn't a flame or an argument, it's just stating the facts for others who may read the thread in hopes they will research a bit and see the truth for themselves.

Enjoy.

posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 03:16 AM

First of all...you cannot apply ORBITAL MECHANICS or calculations of to this topics question. There is a very BIG DIFFERENCE between Orbiting a Celestial Body and Passing Through that Celestial Bodies Gravity Well. In Orbital Mechanics...calculations are dependent on much more than F=MA as there are things such as TIME DILATION which have an effect on orbiting Satellites.

All GPS Orbiting Satellites...and here is a link for more information on how they constantly must have their internal clocks reset...Time dilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

This is just one REAL LIFE REALITY which gives PROOF that Gravity is NOT a FORCE and is in fact SPACE/TIME GEOMETRY. I picked out this specifically for you as you have repeated many times that I am guessing and you are talking about real world applications. I would think that the presence of a multitude I believe 24 GPS Satellites having to have their internal clocks reset constantly in order to be in able to provide proper data is about as real as it gets! If GRAVITY were a simple FORCE...we would not have to reset the GPS Satellites.

Now as far as IGNORANCE is concerned...I will not get into a Mud Slinging Match as I would much rather have a Good Debate whether another member agrees or not...but I see no reason for anyone to take a Debate PERSONAL. Such things are folly for Playgrounds and have no business on this board.

I believe I have provided a CLEAR AND COHESIVE PATH OR LINE OF LOGIC as to why I state what I have and although no person who has yet to live has been able to Crack the reasons of why Matter seems to Warp Space/Time or why and what exactly is happening inside a Black Hole which is simply comprised of a Larger Quantity of Matter than Earth and because of this one specific detail...more mass...allows us to see the Matter and Energy being effected around it in an ACCRETION DISC. Thus it is logical to postulate that a Black Holes Special Effects which do not follow the Laws of Physics as we know them...are likely to be present in a MUCH LESSOR QUANTITY OF EFFECT at the CENTER OF EARTHS GRAVITY WELL.

If you choose not to agree...then FINE! But do not state that what I post has no merit, no logic or is but misplaced conceptual stupidity because that simply is not true! Split Infinity

posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 01:59 PM

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Mikado...I am Dying to hear what you have to say about this topics question. Don't make me wait too long as I have had a tough Month and could use some cheering up! LOL! Your Friend, Split Infinity

Let's not die just yet although everything does at some point, let it not be too soon .

The reality as I see it would require the ignoring of more than just friction even though assumed to be negligible by the removal of ALL traces of atmosphere which at the present is an impossibility.

Is the ball made of metal and is it ferrous?

Also, classical physics insists that mass creates gravity, in short. I believe it has a bearing on the ability to create a gravity well but there are other "things" in the universe at work.

posted on Oct, 28 2012 @ 04:08 PM

If Steven Hawking...a Renowned Physicist of our time who has spent a major part of his life cannot come up with the proper Math to describe what is happening in a Black Hole or Singularity...a person such as myself who simply enjoys Physics as a HOBBY...I believe would be very hard pressed to pull out of my hat those equations! LOL! I can only provide a Line of Logic and as far as your saying it to be nonsense...I challenge YOU to disprove the obvious Logical Connection I have provided. Split Infinity

Actually you seem to have no idea what physics is about. It is most certainly not about mix-and-matching physical terminology as you see fit.

It is math! Steven Hawking has spent a major part of his life doing math. If you don't know the math behind av physical concept how can you claim to understand or being able to discuss it?

To me it looks like you've read up some pop-sci stuff on the net and trying to extrapolate on that. This is not how physics works. You enjoy physics as a hobby? Go and grab a book and learn some physics like everyone else. Do some math, learn to understand what it means when someone speaks about energy, force, impulse, conservative fields.

You seem to have issues with most basic terminology and want to talk about singularities? You can't be serious.

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