Scottish independence: Cameron and Salmond strike referendum deal

Well there's the clincher surely? If we are better together in this great union, then why the huge debt?

Peace

Because it would be so much greater without the Union? Its not like the UK is an anomaly, a lot of countries are in debt. Were a lot more fortunate then a lot of countries in Europe, just look across the way to Spain and Ireland.

Just today Ireland have been looking at sustainable debt solutions.

Scotland will no doubt suffer more from a separation but being so close to the rest of Britain, you suffer, we suffer.

Their couldn't be a worst time to be talking of independence... maybe during an economic boom it may have grounds to actually being manageable in a sustainable way. But again, stronger together and probably the reason it hasn't happened before, people are greedy.

Question, do you know where this debt is owed mostly to ?

reply to post by Zecharia

You are correct but who's agenda were they serving ?

And why do you suppose the leaders of a newly independant Scotland would be any less amoral, corrupt and self-advancing?

Deny ignorance buddy.

I assure you, I'm well aware of the elitist and incestuous nature of our society and it's electoral and government process - I'm not the one who is under the misguided illusion that an independant Scotland will somehow be a paragon of virtue free from the inherent misfeasance that plague's us.

I never said they would, i mentioned earlier in the thread the dangers of this and im under no illusion this could happen.

What i did say if you took the time to read the whole thread is that i felt we would have a better chance at reform on our own path and not the one we are being led down now but im glad you agree on there being an issue with those currently in power.

Originally posted by Zecharia
Question, do you know where this debt is owed mostly to ?

bit out of date but gives you a rough idea.

reply to post by kingmonkey


You clearly misunderstood the sentiment behind that "rule the world" comment.

It was more an observation of what we can achieve when working together. You've chosen to try and spin that into some sort of "let's unite and conquer" battle-cry.

What I also said in a later post (it's nice cherry picking the ones you want to use, isn't it?) was that the Empire did bad as well as good. It's not romanticism, just simple facts. And, once again, don't forget the full and active participation of Scotland in the Empire, you can't have it both ways like I said to the American.

reply to post by kingmonkey


It's not arrogant at all, it's based on precedent. The Irish regiments remained part of the British Army when they got independence, the Gurkha's the same (although India also maintained a Brigade on their independence). It isn't unreasonable to assume we will keep the Scottish regiments (or at least one with the rest being disbanded). If you ask the guys in those Regiments, I think you'll find an overwhelming desire to remain in the Union anyway.

As for the Fleet, it has usually been built by a variety of yards around the UK, some in Scotland, others in England (or even Northern Ireland at one point). The current fleet (Type 45's, Type 23's, Carriers and Subs) is quite a mixed bag. All subs are built in the England, with the other surface ships being split between English and Scottish Yards. For the new Global Combat Ship contract (the replacement for the Type 23), if Scotland went independent, they would get none of this work which would effectively kill what remains of Scottish shipbuilding as it is purely defence contracts keeping them open (the same with English Yards)

You accuse me of being arrogant, but these are the facts of the matter. If you don't like them, it's not my problem, but rather yours.

MSPs John Finnie and Jean Urquhart quit SNP over Nato policy

would you look at that... a pro NATO vote.

Originally posted by tdk84
MSPs John Finnie and Jean Urquhart quit SNP over Nato policy

would you look at that... a pro NATO vote.

The SNP are taking a hammering today. Oh well, let's please remember that a vote for 'Yes' is not a vote for the SNP, I don't particularly want them running the country after Independence either. I'm voting for Independence not for a political party.

we all go on about how we know our governments are # , then as soon as either of us accuses the other government of any ill or wrongdoing , we are back defending them as if they can do no wrong !

WTF !

seriously , our collective governments are #e and no amount of fixing them now will resolve our issues or make our lives permenantly better in anyway unless we do away with them all !

its quite annoying to be offered independence when all that will happen is we will have our independence but still have the same #e system keeping us down !

Why even argue the subject amongst us if we are all on the same boat , we are all being raped and taking it ! Union or no!

reply to post by sapien82


Well, that's probably the most accurate post I've seen in this thread for a while.

Personally I feel we have more chance of changing the system itself by standing together, strength in numbers and solidarity etc, than we have by going our own separate ways.

I know I'm repeating myself but I firmly believe that Direct Democracy and devolved powers to the individual nations and regions all within some sort of Federal Union offers the people of the UK, possibly even the whole of The British Isles, the best chance to have a real say in how we are governed and the opportunity to grow and develop into a strong and proud 'united nation' that rewards good old fashioned hard work, endeavour and enterprise whilst being a caring and compassionate society - something we can ALL be proud of.

Naive and idealistic I know but?

The important thing is that independance or not, nothing will change for the better until we change the status quo that the current outdated electoral and parliamentary systems maintain and stranglehold that the elite's, bankers and industrialists etc have over all of us.

Apologies, rant over.

Alba gu brath!

I do hope Salmond the Sassenach knows that Alba is the gaelic form of Albion. And it means Britain.

But I doubt he does.

Originally posted by AndyMayhew
Alba gu brath!

I do hope Salmond the Sassenach knows that Alba is the gaelic form of Albion. And it means Britain.

But I doubt he does.

Absolute nonsense. Bin. Wasting my time checking this thread for nothing?