agreed to the persons comment below me .I just simply wanna point out that fact, which may or may not pertain to this original tread which i think it does, is that im just trying to say, people only wanna look at with what they feel confortable with wanting and wanting know or listen/understand, and (I) believe that their is more than just one right answer to a debate whethern its right or wrong, witch most people are not willing to look at cause it doesnt agree with what they wanna beleive which IM am willing to admit they can be right BUT it can also be wrong and alot of people do not wanna admit they were wrong or that they wont want to understand all sides to a topic so here you have guy not liking atheist views which i agree atheist are wrong in certain areas that cristisans are right in, like other beliefs are too. just with this first topic of discussion I feel their not looking at the whole pictue. i believe theirs plunty if atheist who think theit right... along with cristians and ect... but in reality IN my own opion why have this type of attitude towards others? yes you can be concered when they start effecting your life in a guniune sense but if you disagree with someone with theirs certain people that just you cant reach out to to show them the proff then therefor you move on, brush your feet off and move on to the next city. and if im worng which i am willing to admit then i will be answering to god for the and past and future thoughts. i have or have had

Originally posted by Miri08
Everyone is wrong, we are all hypocrites and no one knows anything!!! Everyone happy now?

Best post i've ever seen.

Most correct one too.

Originally posted by borntowatch


So why endlessly rant, why not move forward.
Why the poor us atheist moaning we hear all the time. Why are you wetting your pants over this?

I ranted because I responded to your post??? Who's the whiner and ranter? At least I am coherent. Unlike you, I responded directly to what you said and refuted it. All you can do is make ad hominem attacks. And what are you talking about, moving forward? You're the one sticking with a 2000-year-old religion, whose adherents violate its tenets day in and day out. Not I. You're the one who needs to get into the post-Enlightenment era. You're the one that made the original inane post; I'm responding to that, and that's my right. To call my response a rant is mendacious and specious on your part, particularly since you evidently can't refute my arguments.

And what is with the "poor us atheist moaning we hear all the time" line of yours? You're the one doing the complaining and moaning, claiming that it is unfair that atheists call out X-stians on their hypocrisy. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of your arguments; I'm not bemoaning the lot of atheists. Where do you get that?

You have such poor understanding of the issues that you took a post by an atheist attacking X-stians, and switched the terms around, thinking you then had a good argument -- and you admitted doing so in another post in this thread. It doesn't work that way. You need to make a coherent, logical argument. All you are doing is making nonsensical claims and ad hominem attacks -- not that I expect anything better from most X-stians because they are not critical thinkers; rather they are dogmatic and defensive and make irrational arguments like you have done here in this over and over again.

And to answer your post's question; Yes, Christians are WAY BIGGER hypocrites than atheists. To wit: "Thou Shall Not Kill." Yet Christians have been killing since at least when they started getting political power, and I am sure individual X-stians had killed before that. But, hey, OP, want to show that I am groaning and moaning and whining, then show me how Christians are not hypocrites for violating the 10 Commandments, in particular that "Thou Shall Not Kill" one. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH, CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm no X-stian but I have abided by this rule, which isn't only a religious one but a secular as well. So I, as an atheist, find it easier to abide by certain X-stian rules than do many X-stians. WHERE IS YOUR INVISIBLE SKY gOD AND WHERE IS YOUR FAITH AND COMPLIANCE IN ITS MANDATES?

I don't believe in a god, so what, if you want to say that's my belief system then fine, whatever makes you happy.

All I ask is that people who have a belief in a god don't ram it down my throat, attempt to judge me based on their belief or try and paint me something I'm not because I don't believe in god.

Is that too much to ask, I don't force my ideal upon you but more importantly I don't make others a set of life rules that I can be seen to break constantly, I leave that to religion, it attempts to set you out a code to live your life by which if you like that then fine, if you are seen to break it I won't say 'told you' unless you start trying to push your life code on me.

I'll explain why I'm not religious one last time, I'm from Belfast Northern Ireland originally, we left there in the middle of the night in 1968 with me running down a pitch black road with my parents heading for the ferry, we had to do this or we would have been killed.

Why, because my mother was catholic and my dad was a protestant which meant both sides hated us and as Belfast was the hotbed of religious violence we were targeted until one night our gate lodge was surrounded by men, the house was in the grounds of a hospital and it was very remote so we were at the mercy of these thugs, I only knew something was wrong when our washing line pole was smashed through my bedroom window, as a child of 7 it scared the hell out of me, we were then told to either go or they would torch the house with us in it.

We simply left that second, personally I think if there had not been a child involved they would have killed my parents.

I had already as a kid been taught by Nuns which may I say was a horrendous affair, I was a natural left handed person but my hand was tied behind me very painfully and if I tried to use it I was hit very hard by these women.

So religion for me became a no no, and as I look around the world today all I see is death caused by religion and greed. I don't support those ideals so for me I could happily see the back of ALL religions but as its not my right to do that I simply don't support its existence which IS my right. There are many many people who get real joy and purpose out of religion and I'm very very happy for them but I'm not one of them by my choice.

My in laws are Muslims (not radicals) and they had no issue with my non belief, they saw me the person and we get on famously normally, the only time I've ever had issues is when some of the more devout relatives start trying to get me interested in Islam to which I say thanks but no thanks, I have researched Islam so I don't offend them by making mistakes but it does not mean I have any belief in it, I'm simply polite.

So am I a hypocrite for being an atheist, I don't believe so, I don't suggest people not believe in their codes.

May I make a simple analogy of why sometimes people judge people of faith, you do not need to be religious to be a paedophile, any person of any belief system or none at all can be one but the times when most people will be more offended is when a person of trust and so called goodness is the predator, personally as a parent I despise the person for doing what they did long before I think of their religion and yes a person who is supposed to be protecting these kids doing the crime is appalling but no more so than if it was a school teacher etc in my eye's.

So yes you will find people judging those in places of trust, and if those in trust are telling people how to run their lives for the power of good then yes they will be judged by their failure of protection.

As for homosexuality, I have no issue with it, if you want to scientifically look at it then by evolution standards its a destructive practice as natural reproduction cannot happen BUT if you look at it about the people themselves then what right have I to condemn them, I worked in teaching at the start of my working life, many of the teachers including the teacher I worked with were gay, did I find them odd...No.

Did they oppress me or vice versa, no.

And there's the problem, religion does judge these people daily, it has no right to just as much as I have no right to. Its one of the issues of living your life by other peoples strict rules.

Its your life you are responsible for it, its up to you to make your own decisions, its why you have a brain, don't be lazy and waste this wonderful organ, make your own rules if you want, just try and be good any way that you feel you want to be or be religious, all I ask is that you be the best person you can be, if you have a faith system then that's what it would want you to be, if you have no faith system then its what you should aspire to.

Being good isn't a faith..

Originally posted by tylerhowzeright2012

A true so called atheist WOULD NOT JUDGE! THATS GODS PLACE its not humans to judge so these atheist you speak of are inaccurate in the atheist definition, so if their beliefs are not completely accurate(?) we realize the truth by being able to look at all possiblitys as true atheist (nondenimentioanl) and then make their/our decision on something by looking at everything first, which is if thats not how the mojority of these atheist you speak of sound then well.. idk what else to say, other than who your talking about are not true followers of GOD.

Good GAWD! Do you even know what an atheist is? It is a person who doesn't believe in some made-up god. You claim it is "GODS [sic] PLACE" to judge. Well I am here to tell you that atheists don't believe in any god and that they feel free to criticize when they see/hear hypocrisy on the part of holy rollers. Why would an atheist feel it is some god's place to judge when he/she doesn't believe in any invisible sky god?

So you evidently believe in some god and feel it is its/his/her place to judge. Fine. That works for me, but don't expect others to view the world the same as you do. Furthermore, it seems a whole lot of god-believin' X-stians are very quick to judge. Pat Robertson said that 9/11 happened on account of liberals and gays and said just about the same thing regarding Hurricane Katrina. I see/hear plenty of self-righteous, self-proclaimed X-stians judging people all the time. The OP is judging -- quite incorrectly, by the way -- that atheists are hypocrites.

People can believe whatever they want, but if they are going to post their muddled notions in a forum such as this, they had better expect to hear/read responses from those who disagree with them.

Originally posted by RothchildRancor
Why do people give a crap what others believe in?

Why do you have to get so butthurt over someone else's belief system?

It is obviously because the OP, deep down inside is challenged philosophically when confronted by beliefs different than his/hers. That's what I love about X-stians and other religionists: their beliefs are supposed to be based on faith, yet their faith is so weak that they must attack those that believe differently than they do in order to bolster their beliefs. WEAK.

Now I can imagine X-stians and their religious fellow travelers responding to me, saying: well why do you care about someone else's belief system? I don't. I am responding to the OP's false claims and fallacious argument, calling him/her out on its absurdity and unsoundness. I have never started a thread here or anywhere else on the web attacking religionists. However, when I see inane, specious arguments made by people of faith against reason and against people like myself, I tend to respond.

Its your life you are responsible for it, its up to you to make your own decisions, its why you have a brain, don't be lazy and waste this wonderful organ, make your own rules if you want, just try and be good any way that you feel you want to be or be religious, all I ask is that you be the best person you can be, if you have a faith system then that's what it would want you to be, if you have no faith system then its what you should aspire to. Being good isn't a faith..

The shard of truth in the whole thread thanks for that, i was typing up something to that affect but you put it better than i would have.

The problem isnt religion or faith,
The problem is mankinds manipulation and lies to better his/her selfish needs, i believe we all should have faith in the cosmos, period. Not some geographically related deity twisted to suit an agenda.

Man is the creator and destroyer and our energy came from a source which it will return to in some form or another.

The Dalai Lama, when asked what surprised him most about humanity, answered “Man. Because he sacrifices his health in order to make money. Then he sacrifices money to recuperate his health. And then he is so anxious about the future that he does not enjoy the present; the result being that he does not live in the present or the future; he lives as if he is never going to die, and then dies having never really lived.”

Get over it the world is diverse but none of it really matters.

PEACE.

Hmmm. I prefer to judge hypocrisy on an individual basis; you're painting a pretty broad brush. I think most people are hypocritical at some level or another. But I do think something you have hit on here is valuable. Essentially, atheism does not speak on absolute right and wrong in the way religions do; the only values systems it can impose are created by man, and thus can be remade by man. I don't think this necessarily makes atheists hypocrites. However, in my opinion, it does smack of hypocrisy when some atheists accuse God of immorality, or insist that they are moral people. (Morality not being according to a fixed standard.) Not to conflate atheists with evolutionists, but since most of atheists are evolutionists--as far as I know--I think that, as a group, they ought to begin taking Darwin a bit more seriously and work on a more consistent philosophical basis. Perhaps they have, and I just am unaware, but I often hear of atheists who are animal rights activists, conservationists, etc. etc., and it seems to be a bit inconsistent to me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Originally posted by StalkerSolent
Hmmm. I prefer to judge hypocrisy on an individual basis; you're painting a pretty broad brush. I think most people are hypocritical at some level or another. But I do think something you have hit on here is valuable. Essentially, atheism does not speak on absolute right and wrong in the way religions do; the only values systems it can impose are created by man, and thus can be remade by man. I don't think this necessarily makes atheists hypocrites. However, in my opinion, it does smack of hypocrisy when some atheists accuse God of immorality, or insist that they are moral people. (Morality not being according to a fixed standard.) Not to conflate atheists with evolutionists, but since most of atheists are evolutionists--as far as I know--I think that, as a group, they ought to begin taking Darwin a bit more seriously and work on a more consistent philosophical basis. Perhaps they have, and I just am unaware, but I often hear of atheists who are animal rights activists, conservationists, etc. etc., and it seems to be a bit inconsistent to me.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I agree

Originally posted by MrInquisitive

Originally posted by borntowatch


So why endlessly rant, why not move forward.
Why the poor us atheist moaning we hear all the time. Why are you wetting your pants over this?

I ranted because I responded to your post??? Who's the whiner and ranter? At least I am coherent. Unlike you, I responded directly to what you said and refuted it. All you can do is make ad hominem attacks. And what are you talking about, moving forward? You're the one sticking with a 2000-year-old religion, whose adherents violate its tenets day in and day out. Not I. You're the one who needs to get into the post-Enlightenment era. You're the one that made the original inane post; I'm responding to that, and that's my right. To call my response a rant is mendacious and specious on your part, particularly since you evidently can't refute my arguments.

And what is with the "poor us atheist moaning we hear all the time" line of yours? You're the one doing the complaining and moaning, claiming that it is unfair that atheists call out X-stians on their hypocrisy. I'm just pointing out the fallacy of your arguments; I'm not bemoaning the lot of atheists. Where do you get that?

You have such poor understanding of the issues that you took a post by an atheist attacking X-stians, and switched the terms around, thinking you then had a good argument -- and you admitted doing so in another post in this thread. It doesn't work that way. You need to make a coherent, logical argument. All you are doing is making nonsensical claims and ad hominem attacks -- not that I expect anything better from most X-stians because they are not critical thinkers; rather they are dogmatic and defensive and make irrational arguments like you have done here in this over and over again.

And to answer your post's question; Yes, Christians are WAY BIGGER hypocrites than atheists. To wit: "Thou Shall Not Kill." Yet Christians have been killing since at least when they started getting political power, and I am sure individual X-stians had killed before that. But, hey, OP, want to show that I am groaning and moaning and whining, then show me how Christians are not hypocrites for violating the 10 Commandments, in particular that "Thou Shall Not Kill" one. PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH, CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm no X-stian but I have abided by this rule, which isn't only a religious one but a secular as well. So I, as an atheist, find it easier to abide by certain X-stian rules than do many X-stians. WHERE IS YOUR INVISIBLE SKY gOD AND WHERE IS YOUR FAITH AND COMPLIANCE IN ITS MANDATES?

edit on 4-10-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-10-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)

There there, lets not have a hissy fit now
I was wrong your response is not a rant, its a childish rant. You dont have an argument, just verbal bile.
I cant see one valid point, seriously I cant


and I never said X-ians were not hypocrites, ooops your wrong again.
You embarrass yourself in front of everyone. Go have a bex and a good lie down

What's hypocritical is confusing a person's ethics with their religion or lack thereof, and judging them upon that alone. Sometimes supposedly devout people can be quite selfish, as where people who willingly admit to having no faith at all give quite a bit to charity.

If you want to know what tends to drive the morals of most atheists, you have to know what empathy is. It's pretty much abiding by that one golden rule which many religions themselves claim to espouse. You know, the ol' "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." More often than not, things tend to be fair or just when considered in this regard.

And yes, I'll admit there are scumbag atheists out there in the world. No category or grouping of people is scott-free in that regard. It's just that one shouldn't judge people on what they say or choose to believe in. If you really want to judge people, first get to know them and see what they actually do and understand the nature of their character. Once you do that, you'll see that most people are "in the same boat as you are" for the most part despite their many differences.