Is love really just the worship of a material object

reply to post by lernmore

"The ceaseless desire to see another survive".

That is it so simple and says it all.

it also
" no evading their life"

i know that sounds odd but think about it how many times has a empire invaded another land in the name of god to save them. The same applies to people knock on their door politely but if they show no interest then do not try and plant foot to stop door closing. After all love shouldnt be sold like door to door sales should it?

Whoa... OP, that is a strange assertion! Or at least, surprising, to me.
I have never thought of love as anything even close to something like that- that sounds like the OPPOSITE of love to me?

That sounds more like desire of possesion? The kind of thing that makes the object of your desire suddenly undesireable once you have it (and can only become interesting again if you lose it.... becoming "just somebody I used to know" ).

I have a very good friend like that. The man gets these beautiful women falling in love with him, and he is always into them, until they move in, or otherwise commit themselves to him. Then he just loses all interest and it falls apart. He's destined to be alone all his life.

I think this is a drive that is built into males, to encourage them to seek out new females and territories for procreation, and it had to be strong enough to push them into conflicts for it (to weed out the weak and slow genetics). It is as strong as womens drive to seek out security and protection.

But I do not consider this as love.

I have come to see love as a way we identify with others, or with things. We project a part of ourselves unto them, we recognize ourself in them.

That describes the altruistic experience of loving everyone (recognizing your own endless potential within allows you to recognize parts of yourself in everyone),
As well as more exclusive types of relationships, where a woman may porject upon her mate her own "inner male" (animus) and a man might project upon his mate his inner female (anima).

Note that under this theory, people can be in conflict and still love each other! Fighting can be just as much done in love as can kissing!

In my own experience that kind of relationship can also evolve with time to being able to be aware of your projections and separate them from the other individual as well- recognizing their separateness from you.
You can re-integrate the qualities you projected upon them. The game of projection allows each to act out inner mechanisms and work on achieving "wholeness".

When you get to that stage, you don't feel any more need to "possess" or limit the other at all anymore.
It feels like the most pure kind of love possible, (to me). That is pretty indestructable, no matter what the circumstances.

That is why I say that I feel the possession type of desire, where the other is an "object" of your desire you project what you do not want to keep upon, it really the opposite of love.

reply to post by Bluesma


Thanks lots of detail there. Now im confused again. I was sold on the idea that love just comes down to a material transaction and now you force me to reconsider this. Im beginning to wonder if truth is simply relative to where a person chooses to stand to view it. Depending on where a person wants to position themselves to view the truth could take the appearance of many different forms. No wonder people get disillusioned and disappointed in matters dealing with love..

It is said love is a form of maddness. This is looking more and more to be the case however is being mad actually a bad thing. If a person can accept the possibility they might be mad then why should love frighten them, especially if they find the object possessive or otherwise is willing to return that love.

I think of as example the woman in my life i have ran away from when they hinted or said the love me. Wow i was stupid, next time i will not be so dum. Lol i just realise the absurdity of my statement i am Dumb!!!! can a dumb person become less dumb by falling in love.

When you get to that stage, you don't feel any more need to "possess" or limit the other at all anymore.
It feels like the most pure kind of love possible, (to me). That is pretty indestructable, no matter what the circumstances.

Thats it! the truth!

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Don't worry about understanding my ramblings.... sometimes I get into a subject and go on and on without being clear..... often I just come at a subject from left field and it throws people for a loop for a second.
But you know what I like in these types of discussions? The free form stream of consciousness we can do!
Like Brainstorming? After you read what I wrote, even if you are thinking "wait... what?" Just shrug and start writing something yourself anyway!

Maybe certain terms or clusters of my words will stimulate thought flow in yours, who knows how that works. But I love the creativity that can happen between a group of people doing that.

All your answers you seek are within you somewhere..... maybe you just need the spark of others to help you dig down and find them!

So.here's what pops into my head after reading yours....

The feminine energy, or Yin, is of relativity and relation, closer you get to women (and to your own feminine part of you) the more you are faced with relativity of truth; subjectivity; relation instead of object.
That is not always comfortable! It can feel even chaotic! If we stay within our own heads, our own perceptions, there is only one truth and it is static and universal. There is no "other". That is quite comforting for the ego. It knows the boundries of everything and can feel well anchored in control.


Order and chaos, subjectivity and objectivity, truth and illusion, come face to face in love relationships. That is why they bring friction. But also .. adventure, and the ability to change.

Do you percieve a difference between attraction and love?

reply to post by DeadSeraph

How so?

It seems to me you have a weird understanding between love, and "romantic" love (and/or lust).

Media doesn't just push "romantic love" it also pushes all kinds of love.

The western media promotes the latter, and promotes the former as disgusting. I really can't fathom how you could see your own children as "objects"?

I guess it's because you are taking the term object in a negative way. The OP is really oversimplified which makes it seem cold but I think it is correct.

Sorry. I'm really not trying to troll here. I'm just completely lost on how anyone with a child could:

A) Consider that child a material possession (as opposed to a person)

Why would you not consider a person on object, surely more than a material possession or "just" an object but still an object.

B) Conceive of love in such a primitive way, having had a child.

What's primitive about it? It is a basic human emotion. I don't think it has changed in a long time, if at all. The only thing that changes is how people express themselves about it and how it gets placed above all else, when the fact is that all human emotions are valid parts of human existence.

reply to post by Bluesma

Do you percieve a difference between attraction and love?

Between a man and woman i think they are one and the same. Then i may be wrong. I dont think im a very good judge of reality when it comes to love. Im certain love is real as it is confusing because its not one thing. Lust can be love, even if its transitory. Sacrifice your life knowingly for someone else is love. Sacrifice and Lust have nothing in common at all other than being forms of love. Mabey the way to view it is to see a human as made up of two spheres. The first one the outer encapsulates the inner sphere. People who are fixiated with lust form of love live a lot in the outer sphere. And people who see it more as a inner heart spiritual thing are in the inner sphere which is buried away within the outer sphere. Which one is better to be in is really a preference of choice.

Love is not a material thing because true love is eternal. true love exists when that person has passed on.

I love many people. Only a few of these people can I tell of my love. Parents and maybe a couple others here an there. Sometimes saying it drastically changes the dynamics of a relationship. Honestly you had me at I love you.

Love is life's blood. Love is unconditional and uncompromising it cannot be contained. Thus many relationships are lost to the cause of mistaken lust. What people are really looking for is LOVE and LUST most compromise and settle for just the latter.

Love is different then owning an object I think. However it can become an obsession, and that is a complicated dynamic to be sure.

I have lost and gained many different "things" in my life, but it didn't change the essence of my soul in any way. I have had lover's that didn't have the potential to really hurt me, nor I them, but Love....that's a whole other matter.

Love can be the sorce of great joy and sorrow, to Love someone reguires being vulnerable in a profound way. If it's your children, mate or family especially you worry about losing them, about any harm coming to them. It's a Love that never leaves your heart or thoughts.......

reply to post by ISHAMAGI


You are right. This is the most appropriate and truest answer. Thankyou for replying with this agmonst all the metaphysical ideas i have been exposed to in recent months i have forgotten this, which isnt that just an evil thing to happen to make you forget in you heart the things that were dearest to you in life.

reply to post by ISHAMAGI


You are right. This is the most appropriate and truest answer. Thankyou for replying with this agmonst all the metaphysical ideas i have been exposed to in recent months i have forgotten this, which isnt that just an evil thing to happen to make you forget in you heart the things that were dearest to you in life.

reply to post by MountainLaurel


Thanks mountain laurel you are right, love is not lovers its the cry of the heart when you realise to late what someone or something meant to you. Mostly we only see that when they pass away and its too late then a piece of our heart is shattered forever.

Lust is lust.
Greed is greed.
Love is love.

They aren't the same thing.

Love has nothing to do with bodily desires.

reply to post by MountainLaurel


Nice new Avatar Mountain Laurel. Now if she had Red hair shed be perfect!

Human love is for 'other'.
Divine love is for 'this'

'This' is what there is always and if 'this' is known then love is the condition. The love of this includes everything.
The love of 'other' is illusionary because you will only ever know 'this'. If you love 'other' you are loving an imagination, a projection because you will never experience 'other'.
'This' is all you will ever know.
'Other' can never be known because 'other' does not exist.
Have you ever known anything but 'this'?

'This' is this experience. 'This' experience is whatever is happening. 'This' is not ever made of more than one - it is one experience. It might appear as a you and other but it is one experience, the present experience.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Human love is for 'other'.
Divine love is for 'this'

'This' is what there is always and if 'this' is known then love is the condition. The love of this includes everything.
The love of 'other' is illusionary because you will only ever know 'this'. If you love 'other' you are loving an imagination, a projection because you will never experience 'other'.
'This' is all you will ever know.
'Other' can never be known because 'other' does not exist.
Have you ever known anything but 'this'?

'This' is this experience. 'This' experience is whatever is happening. 'This' is not ever made of more than one - it is one experience. It might appear as a you and other but it is one experience, the present experience.

edit on 4-10-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Love is the heart. Thats all a person needs to understand.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


The heart and soul is the present happening.

Humans are lost because they listen to and believe thought, they believe what the mind tells them. Humans live in a story that the mind tells.
Love is the present happening - it is this experience.

youtu.be...

reply to post by Itisnowagain

whats that girl in Vid saying?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


LOL....that was really funny....."forever chasing the little red haired girl".........hope your well.......have enjoyed your thoughts in this thread......

my avatar was created by an artist here at ATS named Agarta, very talented person....it's a really fun thread with some cool people, should check it out.....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by MountainLaurel


My Avatar represents a passing wind in the night. Actually thats an excuse im lazy to create one.

This thread represents the pillar height of my metaphysical 2012 ascension. I have ascended into a cloud of ideas from which i can see and understand all, basically im now a God.

Originally posted by AthlonSavage
Is love when it boiled down really just the worship of a material object. That object could be inorganic or organic. IIf so then isnt love just an obsession. Isnt an obsession just a form of maddness. Are the only sane ones the ones who dont hold possessions of the heart?

edit on 29-9-2012 by AthlonSavage because: (no reason given)

Love is beauty....beyond physical description..

A vibration....beyond comprehension.....

It's a notion void of definition....