ACLU forces government to reveal skyrocketing surveillance stats

reply to post by loam


This may sound a wee paranoid but I assure its not, .

Thats just it though, we're all being watched...all the time. Some more than others. Im sure Ive raised a few eyebrows...and why not? This nation isn't supposed to think outside the box, we're supposed to be obedient workers. Lord forbid anyone decide to think critically.

We were never free in the first place. They just dont want anyone to make waves for the status quo...which is funny because people are waking up to the shat thats been thrown on them for decades. It doesn't matter who they watch, we're all guilty in their eyes until proven innocent. And if you fart sideways, they'll be all over you like white on rice.

I am very aware that others like to sneak a peak at me from time to time....its a complete waste of their time...but they do it none the less. Just as Im sure many here on ATS fit certain profiles that get flagged merely because of a differing opinion. You can't say that they don't pay attention to this site, I know they do.

Problem is they took a software that was created for the enemy, and used it on us....after all we are far more easier to spy on. And if they can't find anything on you, but they want you really badly, then they make something up. Its almost too predictable in their reactions.

The most petty thing is however is that you are labeled just for knowing common information found in common places that even they can get to with ease. its all out in the public eye now and days....all of it....you just have to know how to look. You'd think that either its a secret and they keep people from finding it, or they are just setting up the lot of us as pattsies with BS information.

Either way the spying isn't helping their cause...and it's turning your average law biding joe into a criminal for questioning a official shotty version of events. The problem with conspiracy theories is that there is at least some truth to them. And the bigger the conspiracy, the harder it is to hide the truth behind it.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by Maxmars

 

The pace quickens to the abyss.

I fear very dark times ahead, but hope for a miracle.

We need one.

There will be no miracles, everyone is going to have to fight for what they believe.

Do you think they heard that?

reply to post by Ericthenewbie



Your fallacy lies in the way you apply context. Sure, 50k out of 300mil is not a large number. But that 50k represents individual people. Individuals with individual rights.

To help shed light on my viewpoint, consider this:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

I think we are all familiar with the above, no need to source.

So, they have come for that 50k people and you are not speaking out. When will you?

reply to post by Ericthenewbie


You tell an important story. The imprisonment of America is a national embarassment. We are the most imprisoned nation in the world.

The most pathetic part of this whole situation is that ANY project designed to oppress and control us is being FUNDED by us. How are we supposed to have sympathy for our species who are supposed to be so intelligent yet are the most neive, blind and ignorant species that have the least shred of common sense.

When everything the governing factions say is contradicted by their corrupt criminal actions, yet somehow........they remain in power and the ignorant just keep forking money over and obeying. Working harder for less with each passing day.

The most unviolent effective protest is for everyone to systematically stop working, stop buying gas and stop paying taxes .......Just be sure to stock up before it starts. I garuantee that will make them listen. Then we start demanding resignations and restructure.

If you try to protest any other way (peacefully) ....your dead in the water. Any governing faction that came to power did so by threats and violence...period.

Peacefully, the only hope is to just shut them down by not providing the services we do to keep this country and all others running. We are the machine. We all need to grow a set of gears!

Originally posted by JackBauer
I guess when i see those graphs i'm not so much concerned with the numbers as i am the huge spike in 2009.

What exactly happened in 2009 that caused this massive jump? Criminals come and go by nature, they don't just quadruple in one year.

yep, that`s what i noticed also on all three charts, 2009 started a big spike on all three charts.
we got a new president in january 2009 and ever since then those charts have been going up..up..up

Originally posted by JackBauer
I guess when i see those graphs i'm not so much concerned with the numbers as i am the huge spike in 2009.

What exactly happened in 2009 that caused this massive jump? Criminals come and go by nature, they don't just quadruple in one year.

That was the year the "D" side of the duopoly see-saw was appointed POTUS. The question is how much better or worse would it be under the "R" side?

We desperately need a third or fourth Party that can use such issues to wrest control back to the people from the PTB and their duopoly.

Originally posted by hoochymama
reply to post by Ericthenewbie

 

So, the bases of Population gives the right to SPY on normal citizens no matter what??

Thank CALEA circa Clinton in 1994

FWIW:
"pen register" was older (pots) technology that only provided the outgoing phone number called; not the actual call audio.
Hence it had very low (loose) approval requirements. Today you can do alot with "link analysis" to build up a picture of a persons daily associations.

Surveillance is out of control.
There are at least 4 cameras at every intersection
in Austin Tx.

I find it curious that if I'm involved in a traffic accident
there will be at least 4 angles of the event, in real time.
HOWEVER... if I were to fly a plane into the Pentagon,
I'm to believe there would only be one crappy time-lapse
camera taking stills and missing the one with the plane?

No matter your views on 911 you have to admit there is something
odd about the surveillance of our military's headquarters as compared
with municipal surveillance of ordinary citizens.

If you need to hide from surveillance go to the pentagon.

NO person in ANY country that is guaranteed privacy and civil rights via some form of Constitution or Charter should be monitored by their government in any way or form without a written WARRANT from a qualified judge. The people perpetrating these acts against innocent people should be looked upon as committing treason and therefore executed in the streets. The infrastructure being used to conduct such activity should be reduced to rubble. The traitors and the powers that be around the globe have been given to much power by the people and in the end people will have to get out of their computer chair and begin massive campaigns of guerrilla tactics.

Originally posted by JackBauer
I guess when i see those graphs i'm not so much concerned with the numbers as i am the huge spike in 2009.

What exactly happened in 2009 that caused this massive jump? Criminals come and go by nature, they don't just quadruple in one year.

The FISA Act was expanded in 2008 (in violation of the 4th Amendment) & the illegal surveillance that was being done was 'grandfathered' in.

reply to post by mal1970


Thank you for the very pertinent reminder...

It seemed almost surreal when they "retroactively" gave immunity to Big Telco.

I had always understood our justice system would never agree to a "What you did was illegal and punishable by law... but it's OK now." deal.

That was one of those "Oh, so the corporations are the first class citizens now!" moments.

Laws will never apply to the one's who have all the power.

Leaving us.

"Screwed."

Soon they will make legal taking your money and not giving you anything in return for it.... oh wait....

reply to post by Maxmars


And Obama gets a pass for that one too.

Originally posted by loam
reply to post by Maxmars

 

And Obama gets a pass for that one too.

Sadly, they all do.... they insist on pretending "political reality" is actual reality... compelling us to live their lies.

reply to post by Maxmars


Oh man, no
"well if you're not doing anything illegal then what do you have to worry about" comments?
Hahahaha

This is absolutely scary news but doesn't surprise me one bit.
What's even scarier is you can guarantee that anyone who posts on ATS is under surveillance.
Nothing has been the same since 911 and I'm afraid it will never be the same.
As someone already pointed out here, the last two presidents are the same.
Check out Ben Swann calling out Obama regarding the NDAA.
Better yet, notice Obama's classic politician answer.
Completely avoids the real question.
www.fox19.com...

I believe this is one of the scarier times in American politics.
It's unfortunate what America has turned into, all in the name of money and power.
I just hope Americans aren't too ignorant and lazy to take this country back.
We need more people concerned about these issues.
We need more people to wake up and truly understand what is happening to America.
Our constitution is being raped and used to wipe the a@#'s of our politicians.
Unless we the people become one and eliminate the "left" and "right",
we ARE going to sink further down the hole.
There's no difference anymore between our politicians so there shouldn't be a
difference between the people.(as far the left and right go)

Originally posted by hoochymama
reply to post by Ericthenewbie

 

So, the bases of Population gives the right to SPY on normal citizens no matter what??

They are call listings who phoned who and when they are of NO use unless YOU have been doing something wrong ,yet something else blown out of proportion on here by the PARANOID!!!

Originally posted by wmd_2008

They are call listings who phoned who and when they are of NO use unless YOU have been doing something wrong ....

That depends entirely on who uses them and for what.

But since sainthood apparently is the defense against surveillance; we should assume that universal surveillance is a good thing; conditioning everyone to 'behave' properly? Or will it simply engender a more hermetically sealed sub-culture in which they cannot speak or conduct their lives without being 'on stage' at all times?

Here's just one persons argument about the old: "You've nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide."

One – The rules may change: Once the invasive surveillance is in place to enforce rules that you agree with, the ruleset that is being enforced could change in ways that you don’t agree with at all – but then, it is too late to protest the surveillance. For example, you may agree to cameras in every home to prevent domestic violence (“and domestic violence only”) – but the next day, a new political force in power could decide that homosexuality will again be illegal, and they will use the existing home cameras to enforce their new rules. Any surveillance must be regarded in terms of how it can be abused by a worse power than today’s.

Two – It’s not you who determine if you have something to fear: You may consider yourself law-abidingly white as snow, and it won’t matter a bit. What does matter is whether you set off the red flags in the mostly-automated surveillance, where bureaucrats look at your life in microscopic detail through a long paper tube to search for patterns. When you stop your car at the main prostitution street for two hours every Friday night, the Social Services Authority will draw certain conclusions from that data point, and won’t care about the fact that you help your elderly grandmother – who lives there – with her weekly groceries. When you frequently stop at a certain bar on your way driving home from work, the Department of Driving Licenses will draw certain conclusions as to your eligibility for future driving licenses – regardless of the fact that you think they serve the world’s best reindeer meatballs in that bar, and never had had a single beer there. People will stop thinking in terms of what is legal, and start acting in self-censorship to avoid being red-flagged, out of pure self-preservation. (It doesn’t matter that somebody in the right might possibly and eventually be cleared – after having been investigated for six months, you will have lost both custody of your children, your job, and possibly your home.)

Two and a half – Point two assumes that the surveillance even has correct data, which it has been proven time and again to frequently not have.

Three – Laws must be broken for society to progress: A society which can enforce all of its laws will stop dead in its tracks. The mindset of “rounding up criminals is good for society” is a very dangerous one, for in hindsight, it may turn out that the criminals were the ones in the moral right. Less than a human lifetime ago, if you were born a homosexual, you were criminal from birth. If today’s surveillance level had existed in the 1950s and 60s, the lobby groups for sexual equality could never have formed; it would have been just a matter of rounding up the organized criminals (“and who could possibly object to fighting organized crime?”). If today’s surveillance level had existed in the 1950s and 60s, homosexuality would still be illegal and homosexual people would be criminals by birth. It is an absolute necessity to be able to break unjust laws for society to progress and question its own values, in order to learn from mistakes and move on as a society.

Four – Privacy is a basic human need: Implying that only the dishonest people have need of any privacy ignores a basic property of the human psyche, and sends a creepy message of strong discomfort. We have a fundamental need for privacy. I lock the door when I go to the men’s room, despite the fact that nothing secret happens in there: I just want to keep that activity to myself, I have a fundamental need to do so, and any society must respect that fundamental need for privacy. In every society that doesn’t, citizens have responded with subterfuge and created their own private areas out of reach of the governmental surveillance, not because they are criminal, but because doing so is a fundamental human need.

These must be the words of a 'terrorist' I suppose.

"Do you have curtains?" or "Can I see your credit-card bills for the last year?" ... why not?

As unlikely as you may find this there is also the matter of the accuracy and honorable use of the information...

But perhaps my desire for privacy is now a disease called "paranoia."

In a society where people seem to put their entire lives online, privacy advocacy seems to becoming a dinosaur. It's good to see some people out there still value this "freedom" and understand how vital it is to basic human rights.

I recently saw a similar story where Yahoo stated that the requests for user information, (emails, etc) had tripled in the last year or two.