US Soldier Intentionally Exposes His Position to Draw Fire Away From Squad VID

reply to post by Wonderer2012

So many points and emotions come from watching this I'll just leave a few words, there's no point trying to make sense of it all-

- Video games
- Henry Kissinger
- Global Mafia
- Drugs

No impact/no idea.

That round missed THIS target.

Did you have a point?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Where was Dick Cheney and George W. Bush when this was happening...

Enjoying retirement…playing golf?

The better question is – Which golf course was Obama on as Commander in Chief at the time?

Originally posted by milkyway12
If I was his LT, he would be in so much # right it wouldn't even be funny. I would consider a court martial. You don't just #in say, " IM GOING DOWN HERE" and #in run down the hill. What the # are you thinking? If i didn't give you an order, you better be laying on deck. You think you can just run off and get away with it? Nah, you aint, his ass would be grass.

Negative LT the pattern is full...you would not get a court martial because he didn't violate any orders.

That was the problem - from what I can hear he wasn't being given any.

While we are debating actions in combat and courts martial go ahead and include his Team, Squad, Platoon Leaders along with the Platoon Sergeant too for they created the conditions that lead to this incident. Unless things have changed there are no squad sized operations in country a commissioned officer was somewhere out there. He didn't die the worst a LT can do is give a counseling anyway. I don't know about the Marine Corps but only Company and higher Commanders can administer UCMJ. An LT of course can recommend it.

Now, your philosophy of leadership differs greatly from mine I guess because I most certainly do not want my Soldiers (or Marines in this case) to do nothing in the absence of orders - I want them to act. A zero defects environment is counter to developing any future leaders. While his actions were less than ideal I think it actually shows a man who is not afraid to make a decision and act. I can work with that. Perhaps it is my SF background that makes my perspective different.

I would be more angry if he just laid there until told what to do...I really hope that is not what the Marine Corps teaches.

Originally posted by milkyway12
Not only did he put himself in danger; he put his platoon in danger.

You will get no disagreement from me on this point.

Originally posted by milkyway12
That # right there is what gets your friends killed.

Or on this one...

Originally posted by milkyway12
#in dumb ass, you'd be gone if I was your CO. Promise you.

Disagree with this one...again I can work with a man who wants to act - I can't work with someone who is an automaton who only does what he is told nothing more.

Originally posted by milkyway12
You only have bravery when I tell you to have it, other wise you let me do the #in thinking; you aren't paid the think. You're paid to follow orders.

Again, this is counterproductive leadership - you will never inspire men to action if they fear the consequences of it regardless of the outcome.

Originally posted by milkyway12
You want to do the thinking? Go to college and commission.

Maybe he should, I bet he'd damn well be yelling some orders rather than letting a situation develop so slowly and without guidance that you get a Leroy Jenkins episode...

Originally posted by milkyway12
This video pisses me off to no end.

While I respect your opinion - I think you are over reacting a tad. I bet a dollar to a doughnut during the three weeks he can't sleep for the bruises on his body from those hits he will be thinking really hard about his decision and never repeating it.

It will be a more effective lesson than any ass chewing irate LT would ever be...

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by NewAgeMan

 

Where was Dick Cheney and George W. Bush when this was happening...

Enjoying retirement…playing golf?

The better question is – Which golf course was Obama on as Commander in Chief at the time?

Maybe it was this day -



Here is a guy, no actually two guys with no legs between them playing golf with President Bush. Doesn't seem like they are angry or upset to me.

I'd gladly have a beer with Bush. More people have been wounded or have died in Afghanistan since Obama became POTUS - than in all the years Bush was. You want to know why - because Bush didn't handicap the troops by giving terrorists "rights" and a foggy set of rules of engagement. He let the Professional Soldiers prosecute the war.

See people will gladly serve for someone they can respect.

Me I tore up the stuff I got with the Appeaser-in-Chiefs name on it upon retirement. I bet there is at least one Ambassador’s widow who won't be playing any rounds of golf with Obama. His weakness invites aggression.

Engaging in talks with and appeasement toward those with a Jihadist mindset is not seen as being the "bigger man" it’s just a weakness to be exploited.

They do not respect weakness - Obama is the butt of his own foreign policy joke.

I love these people who are talking about paintball and video games. A bunch of keyboard heroes here huh? I would love to see any of you out there, I know how could handle it. Just can't believe the nerve half of you have claiming to have better tactical knowledge even though you aren't aware of the entire situation. Whatever, I guess it's just classic ATS, or internet monkeys, or something.

If I must...I will just spill the beans on this...I believe this was staged, plain and simple....How many "actual" combat vets do you know that would brag about something of this magnitude? None, it's horrible who would want to know what happened?

This guy is no better than a gang member fighting a turf war.

What's really incredible is that he is capable of running down the mountain with those giant pendulous balls he must be toting!

Originally posted by RealSpoke
This guy is no better than a gang member fighting a turf war.

Isn't that what most wars are? Fighting for ownership or peace in a foreign land? Little confused here.

Originally posted by RealSpoke
This guy is no better than a gang member fighting a turf war.

Other than the fact he is breaking no laws - sure...

While a gang member is fighting for a cause he believes in and also receives income for his services he most likely is illegally in possession of a weapon, and in the commission of a felony.

Soldiers are issued weapons lawfully, and trained in their lawful use - they are subordinate to a commander who is responsible for their actions and follow the law of land warfare.

Gang members are just criminals. The profession of arms is violent sure but it is legal and performed within the scope of a set of ROE approved by the elected officials of the country who are elected by the people. Military members don't make policy they follow it.

Originally posted by Druscilla
reply to post by Domo1

 

Watching the video, from a tactical standpoint, what was this guy thinking?

As one youtube comment put it, the guy is walking around like it's a paintball match, and I've seen plenty better tactical decisions made by 12 year children in paintball.

It's a bit embarrassing. When are girls going to be let into combat roles again?

Tons of respect for soldiering and all, but, from what I saw, this guy was just asking for it., and if he was intentionally drawing fire away, then what's with all the "I'm Hit!" drama?

Further, isn't soldiering training all about working and functioning as a team?

edit on 26-9-2012 by Druscilla because: (no reason given)

I agree with you. I personally would have found the biggest rock I could and just fire from behind that. Call me a chicken, but as my dad used to say, "I'd rather be a live chicken, instead of a dead duck!"

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by DEV1L79
I take it your black.

Im Mixed.



Whats Your Point?

Yeah what does that have to do with anything there are only 2 types of people in a combat zone:

The living
Those about to die.

The bloke in the video was being a bit silly really if you ask me, though not completely. Judging by the strike of the rounds there was at least one enemy fighter trying to walk the rounds onto his position. Moving around like he was makes this much harder. If, on the other hand he was trying to draw fire then he is being a bit daft. In the current AO if we take a casualty then all efforts turn to the extraction of that individual, effectively stopping the mission, or at least delaying it significantly. Drawing fire actually puts the mission at risk.

Originally posted by EvanB
I have noticed this with our guys too... They bunch up in patrol formations so that one IED could take them all out except for the few if correctly spaced out.. They do not have weapons in the shoulder and patrol properly with wherever the eyes go, the weapon goes so they are not covering their arcs or each other... REALLY basic stuff.... I put it down to too many deployments causing complacency to kick in, that and the lack of real leadership and training... It pisses me off no end!... A lot of bodybags have been filled because of the lack of implementing the very basic bread and butter infantry skills...

There is nothing better than watching guys in formation, one foot on the ground at all times and everyone moving and covering each other correctly, using the ground to mask their movements.. A real thing of beauty when done right

I take it you aren't in the military at the minute then?

There are VERY good reasons for bunching up in Afghanistan patrols. Unfortunately for reasons of operational security I cannot go into them on an open forum. Anyone who is in the military at the minute will know exactly what I'm talking about. Suffice to say that the benefits outweigh the costs.

Carrying weapons in the shoulder is a nice idea, but try it for 8-12 hours per day in 40C+ while wearing Osprey armour, wearing daysacks etc for 6 months and you will know why we don't do it all the time. Fatigue really takes its toll. It takes virtually no time to get the weapon into the shoulder from the under arm assault position in real life anyway.

The things you state are fine for conventional warfare where you aren't loaded down like Mr Blobby and working under the constraints of an ever present IED threat. Unfortunately we are.

FYI I've been an infantryman for 20+ years in many different areas of operations (including Afghanistan 3 times). Without blowing my own trumpet I know what I'm talking about here.