The Right Wing Echo Chamber

Originally posted by PvtHudson

Originally posted by SeventhSeal

Two wars.
9/11.
Deregulation of Wall Street.
Recession.

1. The Democrats voted for both wars
2. Deregulation of banks so they would give loans to people who couldn't afford them
2. tech bubble, housing bubble, current recession ( You do know Democrats have been in charge since 2006 right? )

You do know the policies take years to take effect, right?

Also, stop taking posts out of context.

Originally posted by Spiramirabilis

oh, sorry - you said SOCIALIST

I thought you said NATIONALIST

my mistake - carry on :-)

The Germans, and Hitler were National SOCIALISTS, they were still part of the branch that is socialism, why do you think most Germans agreed with Hitler?... Hitler used the same old lies that other socialists, communists and leftists in general have used before him, but he made it just for the Germans, hence the nationalist part.

socialists and communists can be nationalists, or internationalists...

Originally posted by campanionator

Originally posted by benrl
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

The only problem is its not just the Right, but the Left as well.

Both pander to the extremes of their own party, its divisive rhetoric all around.

Its all BS, gaming the system to prolong the problems for the sake of winning an election, it needs to stop.

There isn't an extreme LEFT in America, none to speak of...

The Right has gone so far to the Right that people who believe in Medicare are considered full
blown Communists.

So I am sorry, but the Right has carved out its own place for extremity in America.

I guess I agree in the sense that there is no more extreme left than full communism and the destruction of all individual liberty. In that sense, the left can't go any farther left except for maybe death/reeducation camps.

Medicare is someone else paying your medical bills, how is that not leftist? You left wing nutjob whackos just want endless free crap funded by someone else. Period. Unions. Medicare. Social security. et al infinitum. Eventually you clowns will run out of other people's money.

reply to post by Variable

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Nazi's and Hitler happen to be a topic I have studied on quite a bit....hence the avatar.

They were not socialists in the context in which you use it. Socialism is just a theory in which people combine resources and goals to stand as a group or provide for the common good.

The Nazis were fascist. Not even close to socialism...by a long shot.

So I stand by my statement made in December and fail to see what exactly your points were.

reply to post by charles1952

Are you saying that the Democrats, from the purity of their hearts, refuse to use the same techniques Republicans do to sway people to their side and get out the vote? I hope that's not what you're saying.

I'm saying they don't because they don't even know how. The rhetoric from the Left is weak and spineless. They wouldn't know propaganda if it bit them on the ass.

Sure, they try. But it never works. That's why the Left concentrates more on emotional feel-good bull.

I don't know, I still haven't seen anything to contradict the evidence of the Pew Study showing liberals less tolerant to opposing opinions than conservatives.

Honestly, I don't know if I can trust the Pew study. I've been digging into it and find that they have a bias themselves. But I know that will not be good enough reason. So let's say the numbers are true. That means I'm wrong.

My personal opinion in my dealings with many people is that Dems are more open to discussion. I could be wrong, but I'm just being honest.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247

Nazi's and Hitler happen to be a topic I have studied on quite a bit....hence the avatar.

They were not socialists in the context in which you use it. Socialism is just a theory in which people combine resources and goals to stand as a group or provide for the common good.

The Nazis were fascist. Not even close to socialism...by a long shot.

So I stand by my statement made in December and fail to see what exactly your points were.

Sorry but you are VERY wrong... In case you didn't know Germany under Hitler succeded in many things, which you obviously don't know because you gave an explanation of what the Germans under Hitler did, yet you claim you have studied them when it is obvious you haven't.

Also, in case you didn't know Fascism was born out of socialists like Mussolini... Mussolini was a lifelong socialist, who was a member of the socialist party in Italy and even was editor of the socialist newspaper in Italy, he just saw things different than how the socialist party saw it. First Mussolini agreed with Marx that socialism was attained through struggle/war, but instead of class struggle, he believed that class contribution was the answer... The fact that Mussolini saw that war was the answer was the reson why he was kicked from the socialist party, and then he invented a new socialist party known as fascism...

Both Hitler and Mussolini were SOCIALISTS who had a different idea on what sort of socialism should exist. Those two invented National socialism also known as FASCISM...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I beg to differ......

National Socialism (common English short form Nazism, German: Nationalsozialismus) was the ideology of the Nazi Party and Nazi Germany.[1][2][3][4] It is a variety of fascism that incorporates biological racism and antisemitism.[5] Nazism used elements of the far-right racistVölkisch German nationalist movement and the anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture which fought against the communists in post-World War I Germany.[6] It was designed to draw workers away from communism and into Völkisch nationalism.[7] Major elements of Nazism have been described as far-right, such as allowing domination of society by people deemed racially superior, while purging society of people declared inferior which were said to be a threat to national survival.[8][9]

Nazism

reply to post by sheepslayer247



Instead of realying on a biased leftwing source such as wikipedia how about you learn to study things for yourself?...

"We are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions." --Adolf Hitler

(Speech of May 1, 1927. Quoted by Toland, 1976, p. 306)
...

or how about...

THE COMMON INTEREST BEFORE SELF-INTEREST -
THAT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE PROGRAM. BREAKING OF THE THRALDOM OF INTEREST - THAT IS THE KERNEL OF NATIONAL SOCIALISM.
...

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

Let's read some more...

The Programme of the German Workers' Party is designed to be of limited duration. The leaders have no intention, once the aims announced in it have been achieved, of establishing fresh ones, merely in order to increase, artificially, the discontent of the masses and so ensure the continued existence of the Party.

1. We demand the union of all Germany in a Greater Germany on the basis of the right of national self-determination.

2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations, and the revocation of the peace treaties of Versailles and Saint-Germain.

3. We demand land and territory (colonies) to feed our people and to settle our surplus population.

4. Only members of the nation may be citizens of the State. Only those of German blood, whatever be their creed, may be members of the nation. Accordingly, no Jew may be a member of the nation.

5. Non-citizens may live in Germany only as guests and must be subject to laws for aliens.

6. The right to vote on the State's government and legislation shall be enjoyed by the citizens of the State alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, whether in the Reich, in the states or in the smaller localities, shall be held by none but citizens.

We oppose the corrupting parliamentary custom of filling posts merely in accordance with party considerations, and without reference to character or abilities.

7. We demand that the State shall make it its primary duty to provide a livelihood for its citizens. If it should prove impossible to feed the entire population, foreign nationals (non-citizens) must be deported from the Reich.

8. All non-German immigration must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans who entered Germany after 2 August 1914 shall be required to leave the Reich forthwith.

9. All citizens shall have equal rights and duties.

10. It must be the first duty of every citizen to perform physical or mental work. The activities of the individual must not clash with the general interest, but must proceed within the framework of the community and be for the general good.


We demand therefore:


11. The abolition of incomes unearned by work.


The breaking of the slavery of interest


12. In view of the enormous sacrifices of life and property demanded of a nation by any war, personal enrichment from war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. We demand therefore the ruthless confiscation of all war profits.

13. We demand the nationalization of all businesses which have been formed into corporations (trusts).
...

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com...

Again, you sir are very wrong...Hitler was a socialist...

BTW OP, the fact that you can't even see what is in front of your face about Hitler and Mussolini, and you don't want to accept the truth shows that leftwingers like yourself don't want to accept facts when they contradict your views...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I'm sorry Wikipedia is not sufficient. I didn't know they were a "Leftist" website.

I think you are confused on the definition of socialism. So let's look at that before we try to go any further.

Socialism: : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Hitler was not a socialist.

Hitler allowed capitalism and private ownership in Germany as long as it benefited the Nazi regime. There was no absolute control over private enterprise. Hitler was also anti-communism and anti-Marxist...calling it a "a Jewish strategy to subjugate Germany".

So I'm sorry Wikipedia did not suffice. This info is from the Merriam-Webster dictionary. Sorry to offend with my Leftist links.

Link

reply to post by ElectricUniverse

Hitler used the same old lies that other socialists, communists and leftists in general have used before him, but he made it just for the Germans, hence the nationalist part.

Well, you can split your hairs and ists any way you want - and words can mean whatever the person saying them wants them to mean. The old lies work no matter who is wielding them

This thread is about reinforcing and selling a lie often enough so that it begins to ring like the truth

You want to unite people against the threat of Socialism? Most people in this country are for inclusion - no matter what their other differences might be. Both sides - at their best - are trying to work towards what's best for their country and all the people in it

From the extremists I hear only talk of fear, danger - exclusion. I hear nothing but Fatherland, Fatherland, Fatherland...

Thing is - sometimes it works

reply to post by sheepslayer247

Dear sheepslayer247,

I think I have an explanation for your friends, and the people you talk to, being more open to discussion. See if you can identify with this. I try to look at nearly every thread started (except for some I know I don't care about, such as weaponry). For me, anyway, it doesn't take long to see whether a thread is filled with hate or complete stupidity. Those threads get a sigh, and I go to the next. I end up joining in on threads where the posters are, basically, human.

I think that's what you're doing with your friends. It doesn't take long to discover with whom you wish to spend your time, it's the people who are more open to discussion. I congratulate you on your choice of acquaintances and friends.

With respect,
Charles1952

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


The NAZIS were not socialist, the workers did not own the means of production. Hitler was fascist. You'd figure out of all the posts you make on "commies" you'd understand the definition of socialism by now.

China calls itself communist and it is in no way shape or form. What the NAZIS called themselves is irrelevant.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Hello??? did you not read what I posted?... Those are speeches made by hitler as well as part of the Programme of the German's Worker's Party under Hitler...

...
Mussolini’s fascism was a state socialism that was explicitly anti-Marx and aggressively nationalistic. Hitler’s National Socialism was state socialism at its worse. It not only shared the socialism of fascism, but was explicitly racist. In this it differs from the state socialism of Burma today, and that of some African and Arab dictatorships.

Two prevailing historical myths that the left has propagated successfully is that Hitler was a far right wing conservative and was democratically elected in 1933 (a blow at bourgeois democracy and conservatives). Actually, he was defeated twice in the national elections (he became chancellor in a smoke-filled-room appointment by those German politicians who thought they could control him — see “What? Hitler Was Not Elected?”) and as head of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, he considered himself a socialist, and was one by the evidence of his writings and the his economic policies.

To be clear, National Socialism differs from Marxism in its nationalism, emphasis on folk history and culture, idolization of the leader, and its racism. But the Nazi and Marxist-Leninists shared a faith in government, an absolute ruler, totalitarian control over all significant economic and social matters for the good of the working man, concentration camps, and genocide/democide as an effective government policy (only in his last years did Stalin plan for his own Holocaust of the Jews).

I’ve read Hitler’s Mein Kampf (all online here) and can quote the following from Volume 2:

Chapter VII:


In 1919-20 and also in 1921 I attended some of the bourgeois [capitalist] meetings. Invariably I had the same feeling towards these as towards the compulsory dose of castor oil in my boyhood days. . . . And so it is not surprising that the sane and unspoiled masses shun these ‘bourgeois mass meetings’ as the devil shuns holy water.

Chapter 4:


The folkish philosophy is fundamentally distinguished from the Marxist by reason of the fact that the former recognizes the significance of race and therefore also personal worth and has made these the pillars of its structure. These are the most important factors of its view of life. 


If the National Socialist Movement should fail to understand the fundamental importance of this essential principle, if it should merely varnish the external appearance of the present State and adopt the majority principle, it would really do nothing more than compete with Marxism on its own ground. For that reason it would not have the right to call itself a philosophy of life. If the social programme of the movement consisted in eliminating personality and putting the multitude in its place, then National Socialism would be corrupted with the poison of Marxism, just as our national-bourgeois parties are.
...

democraticpeace.wordpress.com...

reply to post by RealSpoke


Another lie the left has made these days... Ignorance prevails amongst the left it seems...

The means of production under socialisms is owned and controlled by the STATE... It is the fact that under socialism the state claims to represent the people where people like you get confused...

so·cial·ism
noun ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm







Definition of SOCIALISM


1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods


2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

www.merriam-webster.com...

It is not only that Hitler called himself a socialist... it is the fact that his POLICIES and PROGRAMS were SOCIALIST...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


I think you are misunderstanding the meaning of socialism.

It is simply a group of people combining for a common goal, etc. The National Socialist Party getting together is socialism, just like Dems and Reps. They are joining for a common goal.

Just like people paying taxes to pay for roads, police, public works and many more. Hell, you and your friend pitching in for a pizza is an elementary form of socialism.

The ideology of Hitler and the way he ran the Third Reich was NOT socialist.

Socialism is like the opposite of capitalism. It's an economic, and sometimes political strategy that uses the power of collective resources in its various forms.

b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

If you look at the history books, the state didn't own the means of production.

Hell, even the concentration camps were corporately owned!

The following is also found at Mein Kampf chapter 12, and it clearly shows what Hitler thought about unions...

As things stand today, the trade unions in my opinion cannot be dispensed with. On the contrary, they are among the most important institutions of the nation's economic life. Their significance lies not only in the social and political field, but even more in the general field of national politics. A people whose broad masses, through a sound trade-union movement, obtain the satisfaction of their living requirements and at the same time an education, will be tremendously strengthened in its power of resistance in the struggle for existence.

...

The trade union in the National Socialist sense does not have the function of grouping certain people within a national body and thus gradually transforming them into a class, to take up the fight against other similarly organized formations. We can absolutely not impute this function to the trade union as such; it became so only in the moment when the trade union became the instrument of Marxist struggle. Not the trade union is characterized by class struggle; Marxism has made it an instrument for the Marxist class struggle. Marxism created the economic weapon which the international world Jew uses for shattering the economic base of the free, independent national states, for the destruction of their national industry and their national commerce and, accordingly, the enslavement of free peoples in the service of supra-state world finance Jewry.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Really? so Hitler didn't demand of capitalists who owned businesses what to build? And you call yourself a scholar of Hitler?...

No matter how much you try to refute it, the facts are there...

No matter how many LEFTWING sources you put forth claiming Hitler wasn't socialist, the fact is that he was, not only did he say so, but every program, and legislation he passed was socialist...

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
...
Hell, even the concentration camps were corporately owned!

WOW... you sir are completely wrong... Concentration camps were not owned by corporations... and if the buildings were they were ran by THE MILITARY...

What Hitler did was to LEASE PRISONERS to private firms to work in the construction of military and war equipment...

You keep on showing not to know what you are talking about in regards to Germany under Hitler...

As long as you built what Hitler said that should be built many business owners did keep their businesses, many became poorer, or bankrupted because Hitler demanded what they should build "for the good of all"... Just like Obama did with GMC and tried to tell other car manufacturers...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Merriam-Webster dictionary is leftist?

Ok, well I don't know where to go from here. I have provided info to support my comments. The only thing I can do is provide one last link and hope that you actually read it.

This time, it is a link to aryanism.net.

There occurred hardly any nationalizations of private firms during the Third Reich. 4 In addition, there were few enterprises newly created as state-run firms. The most spectacular exception to that rule was the Reichswerke Hermann Göring, which was founded in 1937 for the exploitation of German low quality iron ore deposits.

Link

Concentration camps were not owned by corporations...

Auchwitz was owned by the IG Farben corporation.....look it up.