The Biblical God - Why isn't credit being given where credit is due?

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Miri08

 

Its funny you keep asking that question and every religious person is dodging it, i think only 1 person kinda answered.

Religion is all about sugar coating to attracted the feeble. Its imprinted in their mind that gods killing is justified.

First of all this thread reeks of trolling.
Second if the OP doesn't believe in God, why ask?
Third if God creates life, he has the right to also remove said life.

Originally posted by Miri08
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Yes but their are still people who take the bible, including the old testament very literally. Do they take the bible literally only when it's convenient? Is the bible taken literally only when it serves the readers purpose?

We are to dechipher what's true and what's not, not to mention be able to understand the Bible as a multilayered book which most dont.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


What is so hard to understand is people think they can do and say whatever and not be held accountable.

" Oh, God did it" or " If God wouldn't have created me like this" or ........take you pick... It's really pathetic how people still today want to put the blame on the very one who makes it possible for us to even be alive discussing matters.

We are accountable for what we do and say, it's a law as it should be.

The old testament shows how people viewed God with such little understanding and then Jesus comes on the scene as we evolved to a better understanding to show us OUR FATHER and tell us the good news. We are his children and he wished none of us should perish so there was a way created for us to have life well before the foundation of the earth was ever even made!!!

It's the perfect love story, some people see it and feel it while others twist and pervert the truth.

The earth is a place for the soul to have an opportunity for life.

There are probabilities and what you do with each choice is not fore knowing.

What is so hard to understand about being responsible for your own creation? Have you never scolded a child because he let his sister or brother do something stupid? Or because they ENCOURAGED their friend to do something stupid? It's known as complicity...especially when you're omnipotent, omniscient, AND omnipresent.

Ha! He is responsible alright! You just really have no clue. As many times as I've TRIED explainging matters you are too busy thinking and reflecting on a rebuttal to allow information to sink in.

He cannot live our life for us just like we cannot live the life for a child. He is always around so IF WE ASK for his help, it's given in the order in which he deems good for our overall goal while incarnated on earth.

I don't scold my children for what the other does...... NOPE not this mama! Each of my children are responsible for their self under my guidance until they are old enough or I trust them enough.

WHY would I get mad at my 15 yr old son for something my 12 yr old daughter does? He is not the parent, he did not make the wrong choice.

As gods children in spirit we are supposed to encourage our fellow brother and sister however we are not to force anything upon another. I'm not forcing you to think logically about God, I'm trying to teach you how it all makes sense. Some listen, others don't.

It's interesting to me that WAY more people have been killed on planet Earth in the name of God, than in the name of Satan.

Now, I am not religious and believe in neither, but if you look at it like that -- why is Satan the bad one?

reply to post by adjensen


Attacking the messenger, the antisemitic card, overall bullying.

Just stop the amateur deflection and answer OP's question for GOD's sake!

See what I did there?

Originally posted by Kharron
It's interesting to me that WAY more people have been killed on planet Earth in the name of God, than in the name of Satan.

Now, I am not religious and believe in neither, but if you look at it like that -- why is Satan the bad one?

edit on 11-9-2012 by Kharron because: (no reason given)

God is good, so his opposite is what people have named Satan.

Actually God is said to be love, so the opposite of love is??? Whatever you choose.

Originally posted by Miri08
reply to post by adjensen

 

I have nothing against Christians or against Judaism in general. I'm asking how people reconcile a literal reading of the bible when it comes to the point of gods direct killings because I genuinely want to know. It just really seems that the portions of the bible that reads of god killing people is completely glossed over. I said in a post earlier that I see the folly now of including the statistics on dictators. I was using it for scope and scope alone. I even prefaced my entire post by saying that I support religious freedom. If someone wants to take the bible literally that's fine, I'm trying to understand the mindset of those people when it comes to god killing people and that's all.

relax a bit and have a nice day.

In the last sentence you wrote you are trying to u derstand the mindset of the people back 2000 years ago, which is a good thing to do, it matters!!!

Their mind set was an old way of thinking, hence old testament. The new way of thinking is .... Guess..... The NEW TESTAMENT. :-)

In the old testament peoples views of God were very unlike the new age movement which actually isn't new at all, just suppressed.

So, the stories of old ( old testament) paint a bad portrait of God because they didn't have the understanding we have today.

Most even today don't get it.... Lol. They are still stuck in the old ways of thinking. As a Universal Mind, our minds then become key players and how we evolve as man is very important to him. We are all working together to reach enlightenment or atonement whereas we can have peace with life once and for all here on earth.

Not only do we evolve as a species but our minds and spirits do as well.

Even as pure spirit/ soul we work to see it through back at home too. We are trying to make it back full circle to the " garden".

I could wax lyrical, or give you countless reasons as to why reasonable people don't believe in a higher power. I wont. Simply because my words wont mean anything to you. The words of the following chaps / chap-esses might not either. They are simply something to digest. If you have decided that God is for you, you surely have read up on why "it" shouldn't be I guess.

"A man is accepted into a Church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows" Samuel Clements (Mark Twain)

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" Epicurus

"The invisible and the nonexistent look very much alike" Delos B. McKown

"Animals do not have Gods, they are smarter than that" Ronnie Snow

"If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul. " Isaac Asimov

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Seneca the Younger

Originally posted by LouiseB
I could wax lyrical, or give you countless reasons as to why reasonable people don't believe in a higher power. I wont. Simply because my words wont mean anything to you. The words of the following chaps / chap-esses might not either. They are simply something to digest. If you have decided that God is for you, you surely have read up on why "it" shouldn't be I guess.

"A man is accepted into a Church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows" Samuel Clements (Mark Twain)

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" Epicurus

"The invisible and the nonexistent look very much alike" Delos B. McKown

"Animals do not have Gods, they are smarter than that" Ronnie Snow

"If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul. " Isaac Asimov

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Seneca the Younger

The quote from Epicurus changed me from an agnostic Christian to an atheist a few years ago. I find that people don't want to blame themselves or others for the things that are out of their control, so they make up magical sky people or demons to account for them. Then, they found that they could kill people in the names of their magical sky people claiming to be divinely inspired and they could get away with it.It proves that the human mind is easily manipulated and gullible...

God isn't the cause of all those murders. God is the reason/excuse people commit them. It seems like a slight difference, but it's actually quite big.

I'm constantly impressed with the ability for religious leaders to spin events in the interest of their gods and then again depressed at the gullibility of the masses to believe them.

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by Kharron
It's interesting to me that WAY more people have been killed on planet Earth in the name of God, than in the name of Satan.

Now, I am not religious and believe in neither, but if you look at it like that -- why is Satan the bad one?

edit on 11-9-2012 by Kharron because: (no reason given)

God is good, so his opposite is what people have named Satan.

Actually God is said to be love, so the opposite of love is??? Whatever you choose.

Do you never wonder about this? What if this is Satan's greatest trick -- making you believe that he is the God you worship, fight for and kill for?

Why else would so much evil be done in the name of God? And why for two millennia (and longer under different deities), countless humans were murdered in His name, with absolutely no intervention.

As I said, I don't believe in any of this, but it's perplexing that people follow something so obviously evil while saying it's all for good. Seems like the greatest trick ever pulled.


Khar

One of my favorite quotes on God and religion and the way people are swayed is:

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg

Originally posted by LouiseB
I could wax lyrical, or give you countless reasons as to why reasonable people don't believe in a higher power. I wont. Simply because my words wont mean anything to you. The words of the following chaps / chap-esses might not either. They are simply something to digest. If you have decided that God is for you, you surely have read up on why "it" shouldn't be I guess.

"A man is accepted into a Church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows" Samuel Clements (Mark Twain)

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" Epicurus

"The invisible and the nonexistent look very much alike" Delos B. McKown

"Animals do not have Gods, they are smarter than that" Ronnie Snow

"If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul. " Isaac Asimov

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Seneca the Younger

May be reasonable people.... Just not wise.

People who have countless excuses to not seek wisdom.... It's pretty clear when you figure it out, but it takes a lot of dedication to hear your inner voice all the while not listening to others preach the word and them tell you what it means.

Most people do not educate them self, they want it given to them then when it doesn't make sense they wanna stomp off and whine.

People are lazy, dont want to be accountable for obtaining knowledge on their own.

Originally posted by Kharron

Originally posted by MamaJ

Originally posted by Kharron
It's interesting to me that WAY more people have been killed on planet Earth in the name of God, than in the name of Satan.

Now, I am not religious and believe in neither, but if you look at it like that -- why is Satan the bad one?

edit on 11-9-2012 by Kharron because: (no reason given)

God is good, so his opposite is what people have named Satan.

Actually God is said to be love, so the opposite of love is??? Whatever you choose.

Do you never wonder about this? What if this is Satan's greatest trick -- making you believe that he is the God you worship, fight for and kill for?

Why else would so much evil be done in the name of God? And why for two millennia (and longer under different deities), countless humans were murdered in His name, with absolutely no intervention.

As I said, I don't believe in any of this, but it's perplexing that people follow something so obviously evil while saying it's all for good. Seems like the greatest trick ever pulled.


Khar

edit on 11-9-2012 by Kharron because: (no reason given)

Sure, some of us question things our entire life and In my view it's good to question but also one must seek what they question. Jesus made it pretty clear to seek so you could find.

Religions are looked at in a bad light, understandably so. The reason is the leaders are not quite teaching what they should, but it's politics too. If they do teach what they truly believe they don't have a job anymore.

I'm not a member anywhere. I'm a seeker. Not a Christian unless I'm forced to make a choice as my main squeeze is Jesus. Jesus is my man not for reasons the church teaches but much more profound is my reasoning. The more I seek the more I find. It's like it's just pouring in to me these days especially.

I am seeing things I could never imagine. The way it's all coming together is like a doughnut.... Perfect!

Man is conflicted. Reasons are not for us..... His ways are very controlled yet when he kills it's not because of god, it's because he is a killer who could care less to take another life. It is a sinister act. It's not from God though.

Man has to have an excuse right, blame it on your parents! Hahaha.... Kids do that though until they grow up and realize they should be accountable for their own choice.

This is what you see all in the bible. It's called THE LIVING WORD for a reason. Words create a sentence, an expression. The expression creates a story and all throughout the bible you see stories of men and women in commune with god, at their neighbors throat, in bed with their neighbors wife, and so on. Lol it's still going on today And will until revelations.

Originally posted by grahag

Originally posted by LouiseB
I could wax lyrical, or give you countless reasons as to why reasonable people don't believe in a higher power. I wont. Simply because my words wont mean anything to you. The words of the following chaps / chap-esses might not either. They are simply something to digest. If you have decided that God is for you, you surely have read up on why "it" shouldn't be I guess.

"A man is accepted into a Church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows" Samuel Clements (Mark Twain)

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" Epicurus

"The invisible and the nonexistent look very much alike" Delos B. McKown

"Animals do not have Gods, they are smarter than that" Ronnie Snow

"If I were not an atheist, I would believe in a God who would choose to save people on the basis of the totality of their lives and not the pattern of their words. I think he would prefer an honest and righteous atheist to a TV preacher whose every word is God, God, God, and whose every deed is foul, foul, foul. " Isaac Asimov

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." Seneca the Younger

The quote from Epicurus changed me from an agnostic Christian to an atheist a few years ago. I find that people don't want to blame themselves or others for the things that are out of their control, so they make up magical sky people or demons to account for them. Then, they found that they could kill people in the names of their magical sky people claiming to be divinely inspired and they could get away with it.It proves that the human mind is easily manipulated and gullible...

God isn't the cause of all those murders. God is the reason/excuse people commit them. It seems like a slight difference, but it's actually quite big.

I'm constantly impressed with the ability for religious leaders to spin events in the interest of their gods and then again depressed at the gullibility of the masses to believe them.

But who came up with the idea of 'evil' in the first place? Evil isn't real. Evil is simply a reflection of how we feel about something. Everything evil has a positive use, and everything good has a negative use. We tend to focus on what it gives us, and that's how we decide if it's good or evil: based on whether or not it serves our selfish purposes.

Everyone goes on about good and evil, never realizing they are simply examining their own emotional stance based on how it affects them personally.

reply to post by MamaJ

Jesus made it pretty clear to seek so you could find.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding - Proverbs 3:5

Seek, eh? Isn't that relying upon understanding? Or looking to further your own understanding?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Jesus made it pretty clear to seek so you could find.

Trust in the Lord with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding - Proverbs 3:5

Seek, eh? Isn't that relying upon understanding? Or looking to further your own understanding?

Yeah, trust. Trust what he says to your heart, he is love, he is the inner voice, don't lean on your own understanding. Be open to God and allow him to guide you. This is called deciphering.

Matthew 7:7 is the seek and ye shall find scripture. Ask and it will be given to you.

But ya know the old saying. Be careful what you ask for!! Lol

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The old testament shows how people viewed God with such little understanding and then Jesus comes on the scene as we evolved to a better understanding to show us OUR FATHER and tell us the good news. We are his children and he wished none of us should perish so there was a way created for us to have life well before the foundation of the earth was ever even made!!!

It's the perfect love story, some people see it and feel it while others twist and pervert the truth.

Hahaha...this is hilarious. I love this kind of mentality. It is completely ridiculous and absolutely absurd. This is the crap spewed from the mouths of people who have never really read the Old Testament. How can you POSSIBLY say that our understanding of god through what Jesus said changes ANY of the crap that yhwh said and did in the Old Testament? It's not up for interpretation. He murdered animals. He murdered children. He threw plagues and pestilence around like confetti. He ordered the Hebrews to murder everyone he didn't like or take them as slaves. He condoned slavery and blatantly said that a slave is worth less than a Hebrew. He even murders his OWN WORSHIPERS on a regular basis for screwing up his little rules or making mistakes. He's a selfish, conniving, heartless dictator who turns on his people at the drop of a hat......then old man Jebus comes along and completely changes everything huh? Howabout all that stuff about god being eternal and never changing? Oh wait, I forgot...he wasn't really a bad god, we just didn't understand until Jebus explained it to us. It was all out of love! Yea, right. While we're at it, let's completely forget about the fact that all of these rules, regulations, sacrifices, murdering, etc were all 100% fabricated by this all loving god. He's the one that decided that punishment would be death and torture, but he loved people soooo much that he murdered "his own son" to make it up to us.

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'll move on to my number one pet peeve about religious types. Very few of them do any research at all. I took a year of Hebrew and studied my ass off to figure out what I believed and why. That's how I found out about the TWO totally separate gods of Israel, YHWH and El Elohim...YHWH being the war god who led them during the exodus, and the fact that there is NO SATAN. Satan is always used as "ha satan" meaning "the adversary" and is used to describe people, animals, angels, demons, and anything that stands in the way of righteousness. It's not one dude....don't even get me started on Hell. If people would just study and quite blindly believing and do a little research I think there would be a LOT less people wasting their time believing in fairy tales. When translators took out the names of gods and substituted "God" for the generic god, gods, El, or El Elohim and put "the Lord" in place of "YHWH" it was the smartest move they ever made. Now people read the text as "god" did this and that which makes it seem more real to them. If they had left it as it originally read it would seem just as far fetched as reading about Thor, Ra, or Zeus.

Originally posted by brackforce

Originally posted by MamaJ
reply to post by AfterInfinity

 

The old testament shows how people viewed God with such little understanding and then Jesus comes on the scene as we evolved to a better understanding to show us OUR FATHER and tell us the good news. We are his children and he wished none of us should perish so there was a way created for us to have life well before the foundation of the earth was ever even made!!!

It's the perfect love story, some people see it and feel it while others twist and pervert the truth.

Hahaha...this is hilarious. I love this kind of mentality. It is completely ridiculous and absolutely absurd. This is the crap spewed from the mouths of people who have never really read the Old Testament. How can you POSSIBLY say that our understanding of god through what Jesus said changes ANY of the crap that yhwh said and did in the Old Testament? It's not up for interpretation. He murdered animals. He murdered children. He threw plagues and pestilence around like confetti. He ordered the Hebrews to murder everyone he didn't like or take them as slaves. He condoned slavery and blatantly said that a slave is worth less than a Hebrew. He even murders his OWN WORSHIPERS on a regular basis for screwing up his little rules or making mistakes. He's a selfish, conniving, heartless dictator who turns on his people at the drop of a hat......then old man Jebus comes along and completely changes everything huh? Howabout all that stuff about god being eternal and never changing? Oh wait, I forgot...he wasn't really a bad god, we just didn't understand until Jebus explained it to us. It was all out of love! Yea, right. While we're at it, let's completely forget about the fact that all of these rules, regulations, sacrifices, murdering, etc were all 100% fabricated by this all loving god. He's the one that decided that punishment would be death and torture, but he loved people soooo much that he murdered "his own son" to make it up to us.

Now that I've gotten that out of my system, I'll move on to my number one pet peeve about religious types. Very few of them do any research at all. I took a year of Hebrew and studied my ass off to figure out what I believed and why. That's how I found out about the TWO totally separate gods of Israel, YHWH and El Elohim...YHWH being the war god who led them during the exodus, and the fact that there is NO SATAN. Satan is always used as "ha satan" meaning "the adversary" and is used to describe people, animals, angels, demons, and anything that stands in the way of righteousness. It's not one dude....don't even get me started on Hell. If people would just study and quite blindly believing and do a little research I think there would be a LOT less people wasting their time believing in fairy tales. When translators took out the names of gods and substituted "God" for the generic god, gods, El, or El Elohim and put "the Lord" in place of "YHWH" it was the smartest move they ever made. Now people read the text as "god" did this and that which makes it seem more real to them. If they had left it as it originally read it would seem just as far fetched as reading about Thor, Ra, or Zeus.

edit on 11-9-2012 by brackforce because: a typo

Your post is not worth much of my time..... You have no idea how many times, how many hours I've studied.

I've spent many years and countless hours studying not only the bible but all knowledge.

Religious types? You don't know me.... You are soooo off with your assumptions it's not even funny.

You have zero understanding..... I could teach you though. Try anyway....

reply to post by MamaJ

Ask and it will be given to you.

I thought you had to believe and throw your soul at "God", or it was all null and void? No forgiveness, no presents, no happy afterlife, nothing...?

In regards to "God" giving us stuff, I don't think anything has ever been given without stipulation, exchange, or some agenda involved. And it's all usually been intended to benefit him more than us. See, in the end, it's all about him. And that's what annoys me. He can have anything he wants, do anything he wants, be anything he wants, all with a simple word, according to the Bible. If happiness was a genie, "God" would have an infinite amount of wishes and absolutely no limit on what he could do with them.

And yet we, the helpless ones, the ones who are at the mercy of the world, the mercy of each other, the mercy of ourselves, of "Satan", and of him...we have to make him happy before he does anything for us?

This is the understanding I have gained from conversing with many Christians on this site and outside of this site. Who is wrong, them or you?

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by MamaJ

 

Ask and it will be given to you.

I thought you had to believe and throw your soul at "God", or it was all null and void? No forgiveness, no presents, no happy afterlife, nothing...?

In regards to "God" giving us stuff, I don't think anything has ever been given without stipulation, exchange, or some agenda involved.

This just goes to show you are still in a mindset I'm not. Until then... Until you hear anything I've ever said.... You and I are not even on the same level of understanding. I'm trying... Trying to have patience but you continue to push me and I can only be pushed on long before I walk away.

Not supposed to throw your soul on him..... What we are doing here is for US! For all of us to come together in unity to an understanding, a Nous, of who we truly are. The flesh has a hard time grasping it, I know.

We won't go to a hell for an eternity. We are not supposed to perish .... There IS A WAY.

Wake up, remember, and see the light for once..... Feel at peace and know what you know.... It's reasonable, it's logical, IT IS!!!