Say a phrase, and you are saved...

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by adjensen

 

Making claims like this are not helpful, whether you agree with him or not.

The reality is that there is a cult out there who have as their target the destruction of the concept of repentance, as if there really was no such thing and all there is is election

How about a link to said cult, along with evidence that NOTurTypical is promoting their agenda? He and I have discussed hardcore Calvinism in the past, and I'm pretty sure that is not his gig.

Eh, if you don't agree with JM you're in a cult. You have to go along with everything he says or you're a cultist. Thats his favorite word...cult. Coming from an SDA Saturnalian.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Did you happen to see the words "alleged" in there? Or that he was acquitted of any crime by a jury in January 1994? He's hated by cults because he exposes them and deprograms their victims.

Can you show how kidnaping by handcuffing and putting on a leash to "deprogram" is Christian?

I guess it is kind of like how trinitarians used to arrest and burn people at the stake and like how the Pharisees had Jesus arrested and crucified.

edit on 15-10-2012 by truejew because: (no reason given)

No, that was what was "alleged" to have happened. A jury after viewing the evidence and listening to witness testimony acquitted him. In layman's terms that means "found not guilty".

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not sure which YouTube video you refer to. I'm going with the exegesis of Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D, and Warren Baker, D.R.E. in the Greek- Hebrew Key Word Study Bible, KJV. And I quote:

They are obviously liars and probably belong to the same cult as you do.
These are despicable people who promote falsehoods at Satan's request to make whoever follows them end up in hell.

Strongs Concordence
Original Word: εἰς
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: eis
Phonetic Spelling: (ice)
Short Definition: into, in, among, till, for
Definition: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

Helps Word Study
519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

edit on 15-10-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

So a 30-year, native-speaking Greek scholar says you're not exactly correct and he's a "liar". That's absurdly arrogant.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by adjensen

 

Making claims like this are not helpful, whether you agree with him or not.

The reality is that there is a cult out there who have as their target the destruction of the concept of repentance, as if there really was no such thing and all there is is election

How about a link to said cult, along with evidence that NOTurTypical is promoting their agenda? He and I have discussed hardcore Calvinism in the past, and I'm pretty sure that is not his gig.

Eh, if you don't agree with JM you're in a cult.

Trinitarians do the same thing. Trinitarians also take it further, going as far as lying, kidnaping, and murder.

I am beginning to see that I may have been wrong to not label trinitarianism as a cult.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Did you happen to see the words "alleged" in there? Or that he was acquitted of any crime by a jury in January 1994? He's hated by cults because he exposes them and deprograms their victims.

Can you show how kidnaping by handcuffing and putting on a leash to "deprogram" is Christian?

I guess it is kind of like how trinitarians used to arrest and burn people at the stake and like how the Pharisees had Jesus arrested and crucified.

edit on 15-10-2012 by truejew because: (no reason given)

No, that was what was "alleged" to have happened. A jury after viewing the evidence and listening to witness testimony acquitted him. In layman's terms that means "found not guilty".

Just like O.J. Simpson.

Originally posted by truejew
I am beginning to see that I may have been wrong to not label trinitarianism as a cult.

Yes, there are over two billion "trinitarian cult members" and there are... what... 15 members of the "true church"?

Reckart, you're digging your hole deeper with each dumb post that you make. (I've come to the conclusion that it's unlikely that a guy who makes, what, 15 different web sites to promote some silly theology, would be so silent on ATS when I'm calling him a scammer straight out, and that "TrueJew" is really Reckart -- that might be wrong, but I'm proceeding on the basis that it's not.)

Originally posted by adjensen

Yes, there are over two billion "trinitarian cult members"

Trinitarians teach that there are around 5 billion cult members, since everyone not trinitarian is in a cult.

Originally posted by adjensen

and there are... what... 15 members of the "true church"?

According to Wikipedia, the number is 8,000 currently living, but I don't know how correct that is. Plus, there could be a lot more in oneness organizations or independent churches that are unknown.

Originally posted by adjensen

Reckart, you're digging your hole deeper with each dumb post that you make. (I've come to the conclusion that it's unlikely that a guy who makes, what, 15 different web sites to promote some silly theology, would be so silent on ATS when I'm calling him a scammer straight out, and that "TrueJew" is really Reckart -- that might be wrong, but I'm proceeding on the basis that it's not.)

I am not Pastor Reckart.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You have to go along with everything he says or you're a cultist. Thats his favorite word...cult.

I happen to be very familiar with cults to where I can identify them, so what?
I also am of the opinion that cults have integral with them the incentive to spread their cult, and why someplace like this forum would have a particular draw, so you would end up with more cult members, in a disproportionate degree above a normal cross-section result from someplace that may not look like such a fertile ground for finding potential cult recruits.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

So a 30-year, native-speaking Greek scholar says you're not exactly correct and he's a "liar". That's absurdly arrogant.

It is absurd to claim that somehow experience makes anyone immune to the temptation of Satan.
Being Greek, or studying ancient Greek does not mean the theology he is supporting with that is correct.
He is deliberately and deceptively putting in a secondary meaning while ignoring the primary meaning, to completely change what to normal people should be obvious, which is a repentance to turning away from sin and to righteousness.
He is saying it is just something that marks someone to identify him as already being saved.
This flies in the face of the central theme that runs all the way through the New Testament to turn away from the sins that seem normal and acceptable to the greater world, to be separate as to living a righteous life acceptable to God.
Instead you are offering up a theology which sanctifies the worldly life and makes a mockery of those who are truly sanctified to the Lord.

reply to post by jmdewey60


He's only explaining what the Greek says. And I'd re-read the exegesis, he said the command to repent is a "direct command".

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Did you happen to see the words "alleged" in there? Or that he was acquitted of any crime by a jury in January 1994? He's hated by cults because he exposes them and deprograms their victims.

Can you show how kidnaping by handcuffing and putting on a leash to "deprogram" is Christian?

I guess it is kind of like how trinitarians used to arrest and burn people at the stake and like how the Pharisees had Jesus arrested and crucified.

edit on 15-10-2012 by truejew because: (no reason given)

No, that was what was "alleged" to have happened. A jury after viewing the evidence and listening to witness testimony acquitted him. In layman's terms that means "found not guilty".

Just like O.J. Simpson.

This has absolutely nothing to do with O.J. Simpson, that's a fallacy of logic.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

This has absolutely nothing to do with O.J. Simpson, that's a fallacy of logic.

Both were found not guilty while being guilty.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Yes, there are over two billion "trinitarian cult members"

Trinitarians teach that there are around 5 billion cult members, since everyone not trinitarian is in a cult.

No, they do not teach that. Cults are groups with very specific characteristics, and "not believing in the Trinity" is not one of them.

Some of those characteristics are listed here: Warning Signs.

I am not Pastor Reckart.

Know what? I'm going to take your word for that.

Originally posted by adjensen

No, they do not teach that. Cults are groups with very specific characteristics, and "not believing in the Trinity" is not one of them.

Ok. The trinitarians I've talked to, some even on ATS, who claim that rejection of the trinity makes a religion a cult must be lying then. I'm glad to see that you don't think of us as a cult since we don't fit your list. I did have a good laugh at the following...

"Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions."

Maybe ATS is a cult? Maybe Rick Ross can join the government to kidnap and deprogram members like he did at Waco?

Originally posted by adjensen

Know what? I'm going to take your word for that.

Good. I don't accept credit that I do not deserve.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

This has absolutely nothing to do with O.J. Simpson, that's a fallacy of logic.

Both were found not guilty while being guilty.

edit on 16-10-2012 by truejew because: Fixed code

That's remarkable!!! What evidence have you seen in both cases that the jurors didn't see at trial?

Originally posted by truejew
I'm glad to see that you don't think of us as a cult since we don't fit your list.

It's not my list, and one can see a number of things on there that are very applicable to Reckart and his church, but that's neither here nor there.

The fact that you belittle someone who helps people escape from cults is rather unchristian, but certainly fits with your other dismissals of Christ's teachings.

Originally posted by adjensen

It's not my list, and one can see a number of things on there that are very applicable to Reckart and his church, but that's neither here nor there.

The fact that you belittle someone who helps people escape from cults is rather unchristian, but certainly fits with your other dismissals of Christ's teachings.

I don't consider kidnaping to be a proper way to "help" people escape from a cult. In the kidnaping case mentioned, the 18 year old boy was not even in a cult.

reply to post by truejew


Kidnapping? He was acquitted by a jury for that. What aspect of acquitted don't you understand? When a jury finds someone "not guilty" that means they came to the determination after viewing all evidence and listening to all witness testimony that the person did not commit the alleged crime/s.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

The verb translated "be baptized" is in the indirect passive imperative of baptizo (907), which means that it does not have the same force as the direct command "to repent".

This is very misleading, the way he says, "it does not have the same force".
The morphology of the verb is unusual, meaning not used much, not as in strange, in that it is describing allowing something to happen to you, rather than something you do yourself.
You do not baptize yourself, you allow someone to baptize you.
It has nothing to do with "force" other than it is action in an indirect sort of way (your action is allowing someone else's action) but is not in anyway less forceful of a command.
Other examples of this verb form are: "Hallowed be they name", Where God allows people to hallow His name.
"Let him be crucified" where the multitude do not do the actual crucifixion but make it happen through their demands.
"But only speak the word, and let my servant be healed." where in the officer's mind, Jesus does not have to somehow physically heal the person but commands and some other force or something heals him.
"Let your gentleness be known to everyone.", where you don't go telling people you are gentle but allow people to think you are because you are doing something else, namely being gentle.
"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy." No one is making the people holy or filthy, they are doing that well enough by themselves.
Now is this command, to have people remain what they are, any less "forceful" because of the sentence structure? No. That would be ridiculous and has nothing to do with you having to comply or not, it is only about it being a cooperative effort.
For the full details, go to the page I created for this verb form on my blog ReadingTheBibleInGreek

reply to post by jmdewey60


I would gather that's why it's not a DIRECT command.

His point was the baptizing isn't being done in order to have sins forgiven after it, the baptizing is done to identify with one's sins already forgiven.