Say a phrase, and you are saved...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not if the purpose of my question was an attempt to induce introspection, which it was.

Another delusion you are under if you imagine these little disjointed quips are thought provoking.
If you have something of value to add, just come out and say it and quit wasting people's time and annoyance.

edit on 15-10-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

I can only explain something to someone I cannot understand something for someone.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The "for" in Acts 2:38 should be read as "because of". For in English has more than one denotative usage.

You should actually study Greek rather than listen to YouTube videos by people who claim to understand it.
The word is a preposition, eis, which means, into.
You could have an argument if it was peri or dia.
So you end up with it saying literally, to be baptized into the forgiveness of sins.
I suppose you have some other way to be forgiven of your sins, that is not mentioned here.
The ultimate way to be forgiven is to accept the spirit that leads to a life that is not encumbered by sinfulness, the baptism being the forgiveness of those sins you committed before receiving the spirit.

Not sure which YouTube video you refer to. I'm going with the exegesis of Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D, and Warren Baker, D.R.E. in the Greek- Hebrew Key Word Study Bible, KJV. And I quote:

The main verb in this verse is metanoesate (3340), meaning "repent". This refers to that initial repentance of a sinner unto salvation. The verb translated "be baptized" is in the indirect passive imperative of baptizo (907), which means that it does not have the same force as the direct command "to repent". The preposition "for" in the phrase "for the remission of sins" in Greek is eis (1519), "unto". Literally the phrase means "for the purpose of identifying you with the remission of your sins".

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

So if a person goes to jail "for" stealing that means they are going to jail to steal things or they are going because they have stolen things already?

I said in this case, it cannot mean "because of". I did not say that it never can in any case.

See my above post from the Greek experts.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
reply to post by adjensen

 

Matthew 23 does not say anything about honorary degrees from a Bible College.

The person who contacts Pastor Reckart about the honorary degree does not give the degree to their self. It is Pastor Reckart who awards the degree. I do not see what Matthew 23 has to do with that.

It is really no different than someone seeking a degree from attending classes. Both have to meet the requirements and be qualified.

Baloney. Read that description, Reckart is all about the title, "the honour you deserve" and "being the equal or superior" to those who took the time, money and effort to earn a degree. That's 100% counter to Matthew 23, and you're lying if you say otherwise.

The requirements and qualifications for Reckart's "degree" are arbitrary and whatever he wants them to be.

Is this "Bible College" accredited? How many on campus undergrads and graduate students are there? How many actual college graduates on the faculty? Does Reckart have an actual Doctorate of Theology?

I did not say that other colleges have honorary degrees for $1300. I said that many well known universities do give honorary degrees. I gave one example. Here is a link about honorary degrees.

Honorary College Degrees

Here is a better description of Reckart's diploma mill: Diploma Mills: Degrees of Deception

I know Pastor Reckart. He and the Bible College are not as you claim. You are falsely accusing a good man of God. You have falsely accused me of lying several times. Called me names. Your acceptance of the moon god, rejecting of Acts 2:38, and the fruit you have shown in this thread shows that you do not want a real relationship with God. There is nothing I can do for you and now leave you to weep and gnash on your own.

Originally posted by truejew
I know Pastor Reckart. He and the Bible College are not as you claim. You are falsely accusing a good man of God. You have falsely accused me of lying several times. Called me names. Your acceptance of the moon god, rejecting of Acts 2:38, and the fruit you have shown in this thread shows that you do not want a real relationship with God. There is nothing I can do for you and now leave you to weep and gnash on your own.

Yes, I reject you and your nitpicking religion, particularly when your testimony to it is of a pastor that sells phony degrees to swell the heads of fellow delusional types, and, rather than saying something rational like "Oh yeah, you're right, that might be in conflict with Matthew 23, I'll ask him what he thinks," you call me a "false witness" and condemn me, more behaviour that is in direct violation of Christ's teachings.

The "fruit" of this thread is that people will see valid concerns raised about your pastor, his supposed college and his unethical and unchristian practices, and you repeatedly dodging the questions, replying with lies, absurd rationalizations and accusations that your opponents are "false witnesses", and now just running away, rather than owning up to the fact that all is not well in your world.

If that's indicative of a "good man of God", it's pretty obvious what's wrong with your religion. It bears too many of the hallmarks of a cult to simply dismiss it as anything mainstream, and it probably shouldn't come as a big surprise that Reckart earned "Four flames" on Rick Ross' Flaming Websites page.

I wash my hands of it.

Everyone,

Earlier adjensen with his name calling called me a "simp". What does that mean? Here is the definition.

1. an offensive term that deliberately insults somebody's intelligence or common sense ( slang )

Pastor Reckart is a man who goes out of his way to help others, feeds and clothes the poor, helps abused women, works in the mission field, gives a lot of money to the ministry, including helping to build church buildings in other countries. The Bible college program brought up by adjensen is simply to reward those who work for God. Pastor Reckart is a man of high standards and does not just give out degrees for money. The person must deserve the degree based on their past accomplishments.

Let's look at this Rick Ross man that adjensen has now brought up.

Although Rick Ross promotes himself as a professional “cult expert”, a review of his educational background shows that quite apart from being anti-Christian (he refers to Christians as “Bible bangers”) has no religious educational credentials whatsoever. To the contrary, his only formal education is a high school diploma. Self-aggrandizement and personal financial reward seem to be Ross’ primary motive for his attacks on Christians and members of other faiths.

Wait there is more.

Public records reveal that Ross has been the subject of at least three arrests, including an attempted burglary, embezzlement of $100,000 worth of jewelry from a jewelry store, and kidnapping. Two of these arrests resulted in convictions. In the third, Ross’ co-conspirators plead guilty to lesser charges while Ross evaded being found guilty. Ross was sued civilly by the victim in the same kidnapping incident and was punished by the jury for over $3 million in compensatory and punitive damages.

Source: Rick Ross

reply to post by truejew


You realize RFW is controlled by Scientologists correct?

Originally posted by truejew
Source: Rick Ross

You're citing a Scientology defense website to support Reckart?

I sincerely hope that you came across that by accident and didn't understand why a web site sponsored by Scientology would misrepresent a cult deprogrammer.

The Scientology-sponsored website, religiousfreedomwatch.org, features depictions of anti-religious extremists, most of whom are critics of Scientology. Featuring photos of the critics and claimed evidence of their personal wrongdoing (sometimes very vague, for example: "Documentation received by Religious Freedom Watch shows that [Kristi] Wachter paid an individual to carry out a specific project for her, and also instructed this individual to lie about what he was doing in case he was caught"). The "Religious Freedom Watch" site is often cited by alt.religion.scientology users as a contemporary example of "dead agenting." (Scientology Controversies)

Sound familiar? Thought so.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

You realize RFW is controlled by Scientologists correct?

The info is correct though.

The two men hired by Scott's mother seized him outside her house, the teenager was handcuffed and forced into a van, before being transported to a beach cottage for the deprogramming.[38][39][40] Ross and his partners walked him into the house, one of the men leading him on a nylon leash, another holding his handcuffs.[41] Ross and his partners had made the house a virtual prison; the windows were covered with thick nylon straps forming a mesh, to prevent escape.[41] Scott was restrained and told his release depended on the completion of the session

Source: Rick Ross (consultant)

Originally posted by truejew
The info is correct though.

He's a cult deprogrammer, you don't think that he's going to get into trouble for that, particularly when Scientology is involved? And you should have kept reading:

In 1995 Ross filed for personal bankruptcy because of the damages award against him in the Scott civil trial.Scott then settled with Ross, accepting $5,000 plus 200 hours of Ross's professional services "as an expert consultant and intervention specialist". Berry, Scott's new attorney, said that Scott's decision to use Ross's services was not a vindication of Ross's deprogramming methods and refused to say what services Ross would provide.

As a result of the legal risks involved, Ross stopped advocating coercive deprogramming or involuntary interventions for adults, preferring instead voluntary exit counseling without the use of force or restraint. He states that despite refinement of processes over the years, exit counseling and deprogramming continue to depend on the same principles.

In other words, the kid must not have been too angry with Ross if he settled with him for $5000 and 200 hours of his services, and as a result, Ross has changed his tactics (despite being acquitted of criminal charges in the case.)

An unfortunate victory for the cult of Scientology, wouldn't you say?

No, I suppose you wouldn't.

reply to post by truejew


Did you happen to see the words "alleged" in there? Or that he was acquitted of any crime by a jury in January 1994? He's hated by cults because he exposes them and deprograms their victims.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by truejew

 

Did you happen to see the words "alleged" in there? Or that he was acquitted of any crime by a jury in January 1994? He's hated by cults because he exposes them and deprograms their victims.

Can you show how kidnaping by handcuffing and putting on a leash to "deprogram" is Christian?

I guess it is kind of like how trinitarians used to arrest and burn people at the stake and like how the Pharisees had Jesus arrested and crucified.

Originally posted by truejew
Can you show how kidnaping by handcuffing and putting on a leash to "deprogram" is Christian?

Where is it written that a cult deprogrammer is required to be a Christian or act in accordance with how you think they should act?

I suppose that you think that these guys: Hindu Charities for America should just shut down, since they're not Christian and who do they think they are, being charitable and such, eh?

You really have a seriously messed up worldview.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Can you show how kidnaping by handcuffing and putting on a leash to "deprogram" is Christian?

Where is it written that a cult deprogrammer is required to be a Christian or act in accordance with how you think they should act?

I suppose that you think that these guys: Hindu Charities for America should just shut down, since they're not Christian and who do they think they are, being charitable and such, eh?

You really have a seriously messed up worldview.

The point is you go crazy about honorary Bible college degrees, then support and defend this guy.

Originally posted by truejew

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by truejew
Can you show how kidnaping by handcuffing and putting on a leash to "deprogram" is Christian?

Where is it written that a cult deprogrammer is required to be a Christian or act in accordance with how you think they should act?

I suppose that you think that these guys: Hindu Charities for America should just shut down, since they're not Christian and who do they think they are, being charitable and such, eh?

You really have a seriously messed up worldview.

The point is you go crazy about honorary Bible college degrees, then support and defend this guy.

The point is you go crazy about a cult deprogrammer, then support and defend a scammer selling fake degrees to boost his followers egos.

I have no "skin in the game", apart from hating people who take advantage of others' faith for their own gain. That extends to your pastor pocketing $1,300 for his fake degrees, and it extends to cults, who control their followers, force their ridiculous ideas on them, and extract every nickel they can out of them.

You, on the other hand, are in what has apparently been accused of being a cult (I assume that Reckart didn't rail on Ross out of the blue,) so I'm not sure that you're arguing from a position of strength.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Not sure which YouTube video you refer to. I'm going with the exegesis of Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D, and Warren Baker, D.R.E. in the Greek- Hebrew Key Word Study Bible, KJV. And I quote:

They are obviously liars and probably belong to the same cult as you do.
These are despicable people who promote falsehoods at Satan's request to make whoever follows them end up in hell.

Strongs Concordence
Original Word: εἰς
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: eis
Phonetic Spelling: (ice)
Short Definition: into, in, among, till, for
Definition: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

Helps Word Study
519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not sure which YouTube video you refer to. I'm going with the exegesis of Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D, and Warren Baker, D.R.E. in the Greek- Hebrew Key Word Study Bible, KJV. And I quote:

They are obviously liars and probably belong to the same cult as you do.
These are despicable people who promote falsehoods at Satan's request to make whoever follows them end up in hell.

Hey, JM, what's up with this? You used to be a pretty rational person, now you're throwing around terms such as this?

You might argue with his conclusions, but NOTurTypical is well studied and I've never seem him be anything but sincere. Making claims like this are not helpful, whether you agree with him or not.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Not sure which YouTube video you refer to. I'm going with the exegesis of Spiros Zodhiates, Th.D, and Warren Baker, D.R.E. in the Greek- Hebrew Key Word Study Bible, KJV. And I quote:

They are obviously liars and probably belong to the same cult as you do.
These are despicable people who promote falsehoods at Satan's request to make whoever follows them end up in hell.

Strongs Concordence
Original Word: εἰς
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: eis
Phonetic Spelling: (ice)
Short Definition: into, in, among, till, for
Definition: into, in, unto, to, upon, towards, for, among.

Helps Word Study
519 eis (a preposition) – properly, into (unto) – literally, "motion into which" implying penetration ("unto," "union") to a particular purpose or result.

edit on 15-10-2012 by jmdewey60 because: add Bible quote: "For the creation eagerly waits for the revelation of the sons of God." Romans 8:19

You told the truth about "eis". Stop being not rational.

reply to post by adjensen

Making claims like this are not helpful, whether you agree with him or not.

The reality is that there is a cult out there who have as their target the destruction of the concept of repentance, as if there really was no such thing and all there is is election, with outward signs to indicate they are the chosen to be saved, then are free to go on sinning fearlessly and proudly.
These same people are fearless of the most blatant lies and accusations against them are water on the back of a duck.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by adjensen

 

Making claims like this are not helpful, whether you agree with him or not.

The reality is that there is a cult out there who have as their target the destruction of the concept of repentance, as if there really was no such thing and all there is is election

How about a link to said cult, along with evidence that NOTurTypical is promoting their agenda? He and I have discussed hardcore Calvinism in the past, and I'm pretty sure that is not his gig.