ChemTrails over Michigan

I too am from Michigan and see chem trails all the time. Funny I should see this too because today I spent a good little while watching them get laid out and also seeing commersial aircraft around the same altitude with a REAL jet stream. I tried to take a picture with my phone, I'll see if I can upload it later. But I think it's reckless to say that they don't exist. If we can't believe our eyes, what can we?

reply to post by flyswatter


I actually checked out flightradar24, now mind you that this was the first time, but im still standing by my belief, when i see them "spraying", they are going one after the other. i have seen more than one plane at a time, but im not sure if they are turning around or there are multiple planes, but there will be a dozen trails at a time, the whole area will spread out like a dirty haze [could appear dirty because of other pollution]. then there is other trails in a different location, but not the whole sky. from what i witnessed today was northish- southish. i will check flightradar24 from now on when i see them laying trails, some other questions i would ask are, would all military or gov plane movements be tracked and loaded onto a site for people to view? if civilians with no flight experience can figure out atmospheric weather patterns on moisture containing substances , would the perpetrators of the spraying not play on this, and spray from commercial planes, un-announced to the general populace?

reply to post by IsawWHATtheyDID


Did you see the link I posted in another thread to the site that has airline route maps? I posted the map for Delta Airlines US domestic routes on the thread too. One thing that is apparent from that map is the grid pattern the routes from this one airline form over many areas. There are many more airlines flying many more routes that cross the USA too, the maps for which are also available on there. it doesn't take much see how, on days where contrails persist, this will result in a visible grid in the sky. To doubt this is to doubt basic atmospheric science and knowledge.

This comes back to a point I made in an earlier post, if grids look suspicious because you don't know why they might be there, fair enough, its human nature. But once you know that its not only possible, but actually pretty likely that grids will be visible on certain days, what other reason might there be to suspect spraying? Because there has to be a reason, doesn't there?

There are many reasons why commercial aircraft could not be used in a chemtrail spraying operation and they have been covered in many threads, not least of them is that commercial pilots are civilians and in order to do their job they have to know everything that is on the aircraft. Also commercial aircraft don't have any spare capacity for such a thing anyway, but that would require a lengthy essay on civil aviation and I'm sure you can look this up if you wish.

Finally, no, flightrdar 24 doesn't include military flights in my experience, according to what I've been told there are better sites for checking US traffic due to ads-b transponders not yet being found in many US aircraft, over here it works fine.

reply to post by waynos

yes i checked out your recommended site , and there might be nothing suspicious going on. but from my perspective it doesnt answer enough of my questions to change my view. most pilots may be civilians flying commercial craft but that does not mean every one is. theres a possibility that they may not be commercial planes but are flown as. ive seen pics of the inside of planes with the spraying systems, read the patents for spraying systems. seen the evergreen aviation site, although i think that may be a hoax. i dont remember seeing trails like i have the past few years, and i spend a lotta time outside. there is still the possibility that these trails are from newer fuel additives, but that raises more suspicion from me. i have been looking thru my old pics, to see if i have any trails in them , but havent yet.

Originally posted by IsawWHATtheyDID
reply to post by flyswatter

 

I actually checked out flightradar24, now mind you that this was the first time, but im still standing by my belief, when i see them "spraying", they are going one after the other. i have seen more than one plane at a time, but im not sure if they are turning around or there are multiple planes, but there will be a dozen trails at a time, the whole area will spread out like a dirty haze [could appear dirty because of other pollution]. then there is other trails in a different location, but not the whole sky. from what i witnessed today was northish- southish. i will check flightradar24 from now on when i see them laying trails, some other questions i would ask are, would all military or gov plane movements be tracked and loaded onto a site for people to view? if civilians with no flight experience can figure out atmospheric weather patterns on moisture containing substances , would the perpetrators of the spraying not play on this, and spray from commercial planes, un-announced to the general populace?

edit on 9/13/2012 by IsawWHATtheyDID because: its late and i dont proof read that well.

By commercial planes, are you talking about simple point to point passenger jets? It would be nearly impossible to do "spraying" from a passenger jet, given the myraid of things that would actually have to fall into place and be controlled. We're talking controlling the weight of the plane, restricting access to "non-spray" personnel at all points, etc. This would be nearly impossible to pull off from commercial airliners.

reply to post by flyswatter


legitimate passenger planes or planes that are flying as commercial. given the lengths that those in power go to , to keep the masses un-informed, for their own well being, its probable that they could have planes equipped with spraying systems , that are kept from prying eyes while they are grounded. I am calling into question this being normal air traffic. i am going to check into how much business that the airlines are actually doing, given the fact that the tsa has hampered the amount of air travel, not to mention the toll that the economy its self has taken out of air travel. while there appears to be plenty of info de bunking chem trails, there is also as much evidence for them. im still leaning with the latter.

Originally posted by IsawWHATtheyDID
reply to post by flyswatter

 

legitimate passenger planes or planes that are flying as commercial. given the lengths that those in power go to , to keep the masses un-informed, for their own well being, its probable that they could have planes equipped with spraying systems , that are kept from prying eyes while they are grounded. I am calling into question this being normal air traffic. i am going to check into how much business that the airlines are actually doing, given the fact that the tsa has hampered the amount of air travel, not to mention the toll that the economy its self has taken out of air travel. while there appears to be plenty of info de bunking chem trails, there is also as much evidence for them. im still leaning with the latter.

No solid evidence of chemtrails yet though I'll say yet, because I'll admit that the theory is not 100% out of the realm of possibility. But you have to understand that the infrastructure required to do what you are suggesting would be so large that it wouldnt really be feasable to try and keep it away from prying eyes. From the construction of the planes to the construction of the mechanisms to the maintenance ... there's a large Cuban boatload of people with their eyes and hands on a plane, and hiding these things from every one of them would be just a WEE bit difficult.

If you look at some of the past chemtrailing threads, you'll see charts and links showing the steady incrase of air traffic. I've not posted those myself, but they have been posted by serveral others and are available right on ATS for you to take a peek at. That might save you the time of looking elsewhere, if that makes a difference to you.

Have you heard nothing of the water testing test?
If they are "spraying" us with chemicals from the air,
which gets its roots fusing with water droplets with micrometer pieces of metal,
the simplest way to test would have to be rain right?

Bingo!
www.chemtrails911.com...

Got half way through this link, seems like interesting info. Ganna finish checking it out.
**ok so for some reason the link refuses to work, no problem. I shall try just copy and paste from the page.
Ended up being. Quite a read, I tried to edit (cutting the BS) but mostly really long sentences and need to know what was just said along with the next....


Chronic barium intoxication disrupts sulphated proteoglycan synthesis: a hypothesis for the origins of multiple sclerosis.

Purdey M.

High level contamination by natural and industrial sources of the alkali earth metal, barium (Ba) has been identified in the ecosystems/workplaces that are associated with high incidence clustering of multiple sclerosis (MS) and other neurodegenerative diseases such as the transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) and amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS). Analyses of ecosystems supporting the most renowned MS clusters in ... Massachusetts, Colorado, Guam, NE Scotland demonstrated consistently elevated levels of Ba in soils (mean: 1428 ppm) and vegetation (mean: 74 ppm) in relation to mean levels of 345 and 19 ppm recorded in MS-free regions adjoining. .... from the use of Ba as an atmospheric aerosol spray for enhancing/refracting the signalling of radio/radar waves along military jet flight paths, missile test ranges, etc. It is proposed that chronic contamination of the biosystem with the reactive types of Ba salts can initiate the pathogenesis of MS; due to the conjugation of Ba with free sulphate, which subsequently deprives the endogenous sulphated proteoglycan molecules (heparan sulfates) of their sulphate co partner, thereby disrupting synthesis of S-proteoglycans and their crucial role in the fibroblast growth factor (FGF) signalling which induces oligodendrocyte progenitors to maintain the growth and structural integrity of the myelin sheath. Loss of S-proteoglycan activity explains other key facets of MS pathogenesis; such as the aggregation of platelets and the proliferation of superoxide generated oxidative stress.

reply to post by flyswatter


while it may seem hard or next to impossible to keep this hidden, it is still do able. i have never tried to gain access to a air plane hanger, but i would imagine it to be very difficult. not to mention if i was able, i probally wouldnt know what i was looking at. while i may be wrong in my assumptions, i still go with my conclusion that they are up to something.

reply to post by secretmonkeypants


thanks for the links. i will check those out more later. i have seen other reports of the rain water tests around the internet, and they seem pretty disturbing. i think alot of people will say thats from normal pollution, but i highly doubt it. while I do know a little about alot, I know a lot about nothing.

Originally posted by IsawWHATtheyDID
reply to post by flyswatter

 

while it may seem hard or next to impossible to keep this hidden, it is still do able. i have never tried to gain access to a air plane hanger, but i would imagine it to be very difficult. not to mention if i was able, i probally wouldnt know what i was looking at. while i may be wrong in my assumptions, i still go with my conclusion that they are up to something.

What you dont seem to get is that most of those planes dont touch a hangar for an extended period of time. Plane flies from point A to point B, drops off passengers, picks up passengers, then flies from point B to point C, etc. The infrastructure simply isnt there to do it. Some chemtrailers have tried showing pictures of the Boeing with the water tanks inside as proof of a chemtrailing plane, but this was shot down with a giant bazooka of truth when it was shown what that plane actually was. Same goes for the KC-10 refueler on the tarmac in Canada.

If you really do think that this is going on, spend some time at an airport. Watch the planes landing, take pictures of the planes after the land, keep track of them and where they go. You'll find a few things to be true ... 1) most of them never leave the gate aside from takeoff and landing 2) none of these planes have anything that can be construed as a spraying mechanism 3) nothing on these planes is "hidden" from anyone.

Originally posted by secretmonkeypants
Have you heard nothing of the water testing test?
If they are "spraying" us with chemicals from the air,
which gets its roots fusing with water droplets with micrometer pieces of metal,
the simplest way to test would have to be rain right?

Bingo!
www.chemtrails911.com...

Got half way through this link, seems like interesting info. Ganna finish checking it out.

www.chemtrails911.com... esult.htm

edit on 13-9-2012 by secretmonkeypants because: Fix link. Hopefully no more **cross me fingers

The link with the statistics at the top of that page does not work, so there is no way to see where those numbers are coming from at the moment. Other than that, there are a bunch of links to pollution studies, theories on how some pollution types may cause things like MS, studies on exposure to particulates, and some drinking water test results from California.

Now, where in here is the evidence of planes chemtrailing us? There's no doubt that pollution sucks, and that stuff in the drinking water can be bad, but I saw absolutely nothing that links this to any sort of "chemtrailing."

reply to post by IsawWHATtheyDID


Your post raises some interesting questions that I'd like to give my perspective on, and it follows on nicely from the question I posed about having a reason to believe chemtrailing is occurring.

most pilots may be civilians flying commercial craft but that does not mean every one is. theres a possibility that they may not be commercial planes but are flown as.

This, to me, looks very much like a suspicion created purely in order to justify another suspicion, and so what real value does it hold? In order to create a condition in which chemtrailing may be occurring from civil aircraft, the possibility that not all pilots are civilians is created. But why? Is there any reason to suspect this? Any evidence that suggests it? Anything at all other than it allows for the possibility of chemtrailing? Now, if it could be shown to be a fact, that is different, but two complete guesses do not constitute reasonable cause.

ive seen pics of the inside of planes with the spraying systems

Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but are you referring to pictures similar to this one?



Look carefully at this image and notice the young children snapping away with their cameras. Not a secret spraying apparatus. This was a school visit to the A380 prototype and what you can see here is water ballast tanks that the manufacturer uses as an easy way to move the centre of gravity around the plane by pumping water from one area to another to see how it behaves if the centre of balance shifts to somewhere it shouldn't be, for example if the fuel system develops a fault and all the fuel is used from one side of the aircraft rather than a little from each tank in turn as should happen. This ensures that the pilot will always be able to retain control if this should occur. Another picture doing the rounds was of the Boeing 777 prototype kitted out in a similar way except someone has mischievously edited a hazmat sign into it which was not present on the original. This is standard procedure on new commercial aircraft as part of their proving trials. Those presenting such images as chemical tanks are simply lying. They do this because real photographic evidence does not exist.

read the patents for spraying systems

This one is correct. There are indeed patents for various ideas for spraying equipment. Such equipment has many uses though and what is missing is any cast iron link to these patents being put to uses other than crop spraying, firefighting etc. Any such evidence would be dynamite, and yet the chemtrail community cannot produce it.

seen the evergreen aviation site, although i think that may be a hoax.

Evergreen is absolutely not a hoax, they are a genuine commercial (and not at all secret) company that offers firefighting and cloud seeding services. What they cannot be shown to offer is any sort of chemtrailing service.

i dont remember seeing trails like i have the past few years, and i spend a lotta time outside. there is still the possibility that these trails are from newer fuel additives, but that raises more suspicion from me. i have been looking thru my old pics, to see if i have any trails in them , but havent yet.

There are reasons for that too. persisting trails have always been left in the right conditions since WW2, but the numbers of aircraft in the sky and routes flown have grown massively in the last 70 years. It is also true that thicker trails are produced by todays high bypass engines which, as the name suggests, pass the majority of the air around the outside of the engine spool and combustion area resulting in highly compressed cooler air being trailed behind the aircraft. The sudden decompression after release is what causes the water to condense and freeze into larger trails. These engines are now the standard type on ALL civil jets where 30 years ago only the very largest aircraft like the 747 and Tristar class had them. This all adds up to more and more trails in the sky. You dont need to look for a nefarious plan to spray everyone, there are enough simple and factual reasons for the masses of trails we see today

en.wikipedia.org...-bypass_turbofan

reply to post by IsawWHATtheyDID


The evidence is above you, in the sky. I don't see how the government haven't had to come out about it. Idk, but perhaps chemtrails are more frequent in Michigan than elsewhere. Hardly every leave Michigan, but I remember when I got up early and was going to drive into town and as I pulled up to the end of my drive (facing South) and was shocked to see 2-3 fresh chemtrails being laid, Side by side, 3 planes not protocol. And so I took a picture with my cell phone, thought ok on with the driving. Arrived In the parking lot of my old high school, pulled to the back "cool place to park" which insidently had a nice southbound view over the soccerfield.
Also when I first saw them, leaving my street, they appeared to be maybe 3-4 miles south of me.
My destination was about 2 miles south. So I'm right close to the 2-3 chemtrails I saw earlier. Like half mile to a mile away(and that's stretching it) only now with a clearer view and close to the front row, I saw row after row, east to west or as far as I could see. It was unbelievable. I have to try and get the pictures off of my old cell phone, but I won't be able to get that for a few days yea I know typical no pics no real I promise they do exist, they do...

reply to post by secretmonkeypants


How do you know they are chemtrails rather than contrails?

reply to post by waynos


I can't believe you just asked that, here we go....

Well awhile back when I was peeking around for information on chemtrails etc.
I ended up watching a lot of videos and documentaries,
and visited random sites, just googling my question.
But I thought a source had said that planes aren't suppossed to be flying that close,
and I'm going to try and test the rain water soon.
If you were there and saw what I saw, it was like Woah.
I could see planes and I could see the trail going far far far back, not dissipating.
I'm not nearly a expert or really know much info.
That's why it was convenient I saw the thread when I did and able to talk with people on here
while at the same time improving my knowledge on the topic.

Originally posted by secretmonkeypants
reply to post by waynos

 

I can't believe you just asked that, here we go....

Well awhile back when I was peeking around for information on chemtrails etc.
I ended up watching a lot of videos and documentaries,
and visited random sites, just googling my question.
But I thought a source had said that planes aren't suppossed to be flying that close,
and I'm going to try and test the rain water soon.
If you were there and saw what I saw, it was like Woah.
I could see planes and I could see the trail going far far far back, not dissipating.
I'm not nearly a expert or really know much info.
That's why it was convenient I saw the thread when I did and able to talk with people on here
while at the same time improving my knowledge on the topic.

So you're saying that because it didnt dissipate, it was a chemtrail? Because you think planes were flying too close, they were chemtrails?

If you want to see things about conspiracies and fantasy airplanes, you can go look up videos about chemtrails. If you want to see the proven science behind contrails, you dont have to rely on second hand video or hypothesis from strangers - you can go out there and see the papers for yourself.

reply to post by flyswatter


I was relying on information I had previously obtained.
I can tell you are non believer,
so I don't expect you to fully understand,
But from what I do know they seemed exactly like chemtrails.
Plus their is still the first hand experience, it was ludacris,
I looked out my window ready to get out of my truck and
into school when I saw just so many more,
We hadn't had clouds in days,
By time I was out of there the chemtrails had turned into
Obvious "clouds". I'm going to try and upload a pic I took
on 9/11 when i was outside watching planes, jet streams and chemtrails.
I don't know what the easiest method of doing this wil be, bu I will try.
When I do post it, the chem is on the top, I watched it's whole creation,
And the real jester am is below it maybe 1/10 of as long as the chem.

How about the checkerboard pattern is caused by the upper winds moving the CONTRAILS and the next plane a few minutes later puts down another and the next another all the while the upper winds anr moving them along. Sorry probably too much information. So what chemical analsys of the chemtrail did your lab come up with. Or haven't you really had any analysis done but you KNOW!!

SE Michigan here about 100 miles NE of OOOO` Hare

reply to post by flyswatter


Ok so here's what I got on 9/11. When I saw the stream go under the chemtrail I new it was a photo op.

Ok took some doing, but I think that pics will post.