The Men In Black(OPs) The Aviary & UFOs

Gobble gobble. Watch out for the Turkey Hunters fat boy. Have fun. Oven is warming up.

NOW: Hey, fullotusqigong, please don't tell me you helped promote George Hansen and then found out you were off base? That wouldn't say much for your discretion and paranormal understanding.

While George might or might not find some Eastern sources more helpful, he was NOT off base about the Cortile Abduction being full of holes.

That Sean Meers guy is a spin-artist from his first point and totally misrepresents Hansen's statement. Re-read and look at it, because you'll embarrass yourself if you back that hooey.

You've been helpful in recent posts and I am willing to concede that qigong deserves a second look, but are you a gentleman of such proportions that you can help me stay on topic?

If not, I can only conclude that qigong produces ungentlemanly behavior and as such has nothing to offer in the sense of serenity or character.

Originally posted by gguyx
reply to post by The GUT

 

So, this seems to be a one-sided deal you have here with an absent Mr. Green. Why not invite him onto ATS? The mods can easily verify identities. This way you two can fence and we all might learn something, or not. In any case, it wouldn't so one-sided anymore.

I always feel uncomfortable hearing only one side of the story when I know there may be three sides--yours, his, and the truth.

I feel you. But consider it from Dr. Green's perspective: We're busy enough at times here on the boards cutting and slashing each other, let alone the known personages that have shown up and tried to have a civil conversation.

I would love to have him here other than that.

However, stay tuned. There's a possibility we might have a compromise in the works that will satisfy you. We'll see.

IsaacKoi suggested the research of Caryn Anscomb as a touching point. She certainly does have some interesting points and knows her way around the field.

While I don't know where her thinking is these days (I do plan to email her) and I'm not sure if we'll ultimately agree on the endpoint, the thoughts she offers here certainly don't conflict with some of where I'm personally going with this thread.

Here's an excerpt from her work:

...A comment made by Graff is of interest for those searching for UFO/Alien connections within the STAR GATE files, in which he surmises that the current UFO craze is a reflection of the loss of connectivity with deeper aspects of ourselves. If Graff truly believes that, it becomes a significant indication that research into psi-ability was / is pointing to areas other than nuts and bolts alien technology….

…ongoing research in the field of cognitive sciences and neurology has possibly led to a significant find: a non-endogenous signal may have been detected in the prefrontal cortex of the brain….

…this brain region has been implicated in planning complex cognitive behaviors, personality expression and moderating correct social behavior.

...Although it is to soon to know the extent of this discovery, as it remains very hush hush, if proved correct the discovery will have a profound impact on how we view the emergence of consciousness, and if / how our conscious / subconscious minds might be influenced by an ‘outside’ signal. Not least, where this ‘signal’ might originate from.

In summing-up, any discerning researcher should notice a distinct pattern emerging out of the complex and interwoven events and players.

The hypothesis proposed here is that the modern nuts and bolts UFO myth was born out of overlapping events, which include Cold War and post Cold War counterintelligence, skilled masters of deception and not so skilled hoaxers. But lurking in the background is the king of paradox, the Master Trickster himself.
.
..The UFO arena fast became a platform for gathering and disseminating information to and from a variety of sources, and wherein the trickster runs riot. But hiding in the shadows are a bunch of folk, some highly positioned, who quietly watch the show, suspended from their webs of intrigue waiting to catch a fat juicy fly. And it’s this overlap, this grey region betwixt UFOlogy, Intel and parapsychology that is quite probably the most enigmatic.

We (SSR) are repeatedly told by one of our sources that the UFO phenomenon can’t be tracked by traditional technological means — “one has to follow the people, not the phenomenon,” we’re told.

linked article

"Follow the people" brings to mind Dr. Jacques Vallee's (A longtime friend of Dr. Green) observation that, basically, to find the answers to the puzzle one would have to monkey with the "control system."

We'll be looking at that next...

From a Jerome Clark interview with Jacques Vallee originally published in FATE Magazine, 1978

First, there is a physical object. That may be a flying saucer or it may be a projection or it may be something entirely different. All we know about it is that it represents a tremendous quantity of electromagnetic energy in a small volume. I say that based upon the evidence gathered from traces, from electromagnetic and radar detection and from perturbations of the electromagnetic fields such as Dr. Claude Poher, the French space scientist, has recorded.

Electromagnetism: Check. Noted.



Second, there's the phenomenon the witnesses perceive. What they tell us is that they've seen a flying saucer. Now they may have seen that or they may have seen an image of a flying saucer or they may have hallucinated it under the influence of microwave radiation, or any of a number of things may have happened. The fact is that the witnesses were exposed to an event and as a result they experienced a highly complex alteration of perception which caused them to describe the object or objects that figure in their testimony.

We know there are objects that contain a lot of energy in a small space. What do we know about what happens to the human brain when it's exposed to a great deal of energy?

…What we do know is that you can make people hallucinate using either lights or microwave or electromagnetic energy. You can also make them pass out; you can cause them to behave strangely, put them into shock, make them hear voices or even kill them.

NOTE: Brilliant scientist, SRI background, DARPA background, stellar thinker, really did help invent the internet, friend of Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green says in 1978 that microwaves and/or electromagnetic energy can. "cause them to behave strangely, put them into shock, make them hear voices or even kill them."

I'm not saying Jacques would zap anyone, just that these effects have been noted in association with ufology.

So: Checked & Noted. Right? Moving along then.

An engineer observing a computer would want to look at the back and open up the boxes. He would want to take a probe and examine the different parts of the computer. But there is another way of looking at it; the way of the programmer, who wants to sit in front of the computer and analyze what it does, not how it does it.

That's my approach. I want to ask it questions and see what answers I get. I want to interact with it as an information entity.

Whenever Dr. Vallee talks about that aspect, he gets intentionally vague. He does mention the "social aspect." He also talks about the witnesses and experiencers. With that in mind we continue:

There are different kinds of control systems - open ones and closed ones - and there are tests you can apply to them to find out what kind of control system you're inside. That leads to a number of experiments you can do with the UFO phenomenon, whereas the other interpretations don't lead you to anything.

If you're convinced that UFOs are extraterrestrial, then about the only thing you can do is to climb to a hilltop with a flashlight and send a message in Morse code. People have tried that, I know, but it doesn't seem to work very will!

You mean Steven Greer has been pulling our legs? Imagine that.

Well heck, how would you do it then? Ahhh:



The control system concept can be tested by a small group of people - you don't need a large organization or a lot of equipment - and you can start thinking about active intervention in the phenomenon.

I hesitate to be too specific. I'm speaking, as I'm sure you understand, of the attempted manipulation of UFO manifestations. It's a pretty tall order.

Why does he hesitate to be "too specific?" I can think of a few reasons, but for now: Checked & Noted.

We're assuming that there is a feedback mechanism involved in the operations of the control system; if you change the information that's carried back to that system, you might be able to infiltrate it through its own feedback.

People! Like contactees and abductees maybe? Don't you have to have "control" subjects too in science?!

Could there possibly be any concatenate work in a neuroscience project that looks--amongst other things--for answers like this:

True and False Memories as an Illustrative Case of the Difficulty of Developing Accurate and Practical Neurophysiological Indexes of Psychological States

An important issue for cognitive neuroscientists concerns efforts to determine whether a person is reporting a true experience or one that is false but believed. In the last decade, there have been innumerable research efforts designed to distinguish true from false memories. Earlier work examining behavioral differences between true and false memories revealed that group differences were sometimes found (for example, more sensory details in true-memory reports)

Jacques Valle interview with Jerome Clark

Here's a little about Dale Graff mentioned by Caryn Anscomb above.

Graff is/was a member of the loose affiliation of friends and colleagues from the intelligence apparatus sometimes known as The Aviary, and an electromagnetism savant.

…Graff applied for the Director of Central Intelligence Exceptional Analyst Program, a prestigious intelligence analyst fellowship awarded by the Director of the CIA.

Though Graff's proposal to study electromagnetic effects on brain processes included aspects of parapsychology research, he was still chosen to receive the important award…

Excerpted from, Reading the Enemy's Mind

Col. John B. Alexander with a copy of 'Reading the Enemy's Mind'

Hard to say about all of the info contained in the following, but I present it for your consideration and further research:

Dale Graff, Defense Intelligence Agency who fought to keep Pandolfi out of the DIA "RV/psi" loop. UFO-related technology specialist [alleged by Smith, Guiley, etc. to be a genuine DIA "Dark Side" bad-boy -B:.B:. reported by Dan Smith (cf. infra) to be head of the "military" UFO Working Group at Los Alamos National Laboratory; rumored to be involved in psychotronic and ESP programs at Los Alamos;

formerly was contracts overseer for the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base; then was chief of the DIA's Defense Technology/Special Programs department, before reportedly being fired by the DIA. Currently Graff is reported to be in contact with the human designate who communicates with an extraterrestrial residing near Washington, DC in a subterranean facility.
BELIEVE IT OR NOT!

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

Do we have a theme going? Just one aspect to be sure, but important for overall consideration.

More to come...

No, The GUT, you were not one of the members to request details on the conversation Kit and I had.

I am not giving any private details as it was the request of Kit for our conversations to stay between him and I.

I will state, however, that he is well aware of Above Top Secret, and he may just be browsing every once in a while.

As a matter in fact, something tells me he's read this thread already...

Just wanted to say, to The GUT- best thread I have read in ages, mate. Well researched and facinating.

Genuinely- thanks for posting!

Originally posted by The GUT
From a Jerome Clark interview with Jacques Vallee originally published in FATE Magazine, 1978


NOTE: Brilliant scientist, SRI background, DARPA background, stellar thinker, really did help invent the internet, friend of Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green says in 1978 that microwaves and/or electromagnetic energy can. "cause them to behave strangely, put them into shock, make them hear voices or even kill them."

I'm not saying Jacques would zap anyone, just that these effects have been noted in association with ufology.

So: Checked & Noted. Right? Moving along then.

Hello to you The GUT - Great Thread -

I have really enjoyed reading all of the information you have been posting on this subject, as well as all of the other very well read and informed ATS members who have been posting what they know and their opinions too.

I have a request of you The GUT if you would, before you end this thread. As you have pointed out in the paragraph above the Real Dangers that are posed to all of us - "Humanity" at large by these extremely advanced and deadly microwave and/or electromagnetic weapons.

It would be appreciated if you could mention some type of counter measures that any of us might be able to use to help Protect ourselves from any of these type of weapons. For example, if someone was pointing a pistol at any of us, if we had on a bullet proof vest, that would go a long way to help stopping a bullet. And if a laser beam where pointed at any of us, a simple mirror would be able to block and bounce the laser beam away from us.

Those are some very simple defense mechanisms of protection I just mentioned against simple weapons. What can any of us do to protect ourselves from any of the deadly microwaves and/or electromagnetic weapons that we hear about now days ???

Thank you in advance for Any of your thoughts and / or suggestions on what type of defense - if there is any defense? - that any of us reading this thread might think about or take now or in the future that would help - Protect Us - against these types of microwaves and/or electromagnetic weapons that are out there.

Chrisb9, thank you for your kind words. I'm not here to state that our future includes the definitive that we will be zapped.

If the Globalists, who we know undeniably exist here & there in our government, get their way, that could, of course, cause some angry Americans to protest and there most assuredly ARE some in the government system that would joyfully use their "babies."

The only "bullet proof vest" we have left, and it might not be enough at this point, is the Truth. Your post makes me sad. I don't want to be a fear-monger, but there are ethical questions to be raised about ALL the topics here.

I don't want Kit Green to take the heat for that aspect, but in your honor, Chris, I feel compelled to deliver a strong polemic as we search for one bit of truth. Here goes.

Thought and question for the Day:

When MJ12 came along, I didn't immediately buy it, but I do admit that it gave me some hope. Maybe I should say HOPE, because hope is a big word when we're talking about something that has the potential to be the biggest question/answer of our time. Hope is a rare and precious thing.

Are We Alone, is the burning question of our time.

While it was unlikely that we'd finally been leaked the truth, the papers looked dang good initially. They couldn't be immediately dismissed.

Heck, Stanton spent YEARS chasing that rabbit…with a little financial help from the CIA connected Bruce Maccabee. I'm finding it hard to believe those who promoted it believed it. I'm finding it hard to believe it could be for any national security purposes. Any morally legitimate purposes anyway.

As a matter of fact they're not just hard to believe, I can't believe either of those reasons. Those two options just plain don't compute.

Hope…I find it hard to imagine anyone shattering that feeling for so many people and then hiding behind an ever-changing story. I know I'm being hard, but someone needs to set the record straight if they care about their fellow man.

But what do we get instead of an explanation? Serpo. Now most of us didn't get any HOPE out of that--although some poor souls did.

What those of us who got some hope out of MJ12 felt about the obvious insult of Serpo was, and I can't hold back here, I'll explain those one-two punches like this:

MJ12 was like catching your much loved and trusted mate in bed with another. You're not the same, but maybe you can forgive.

Serpo is like coming home the next day and finding them in bed with your two best friends. Insult to injury.

Now I ask you all and please speak up if you see it differently, how does this newest explanation from Mirage Men fit the facts and what about truth?

Dr. Green has ties to both stories, MJ12 & Serpo. In the following statement he gave, one can only infer, that if it's true, then he's a part of an official disclosure process since he specifically mentions Serpo.

...How do you tell people that story? If it's true?' he added, almost parenthetically.

"If you were to give them the core story right off the bat, they'd get sick, so you do it slowly over ten or twenty years.You put out a bunch of movies, a bunch of books, a bunch of stories, a bunch of Internet memes about reptilian aliens eating our children, about all the crazy stuff that we've seen recently in Serpo. Then one day you say, "Hey, all that stuff is nonsense, relax, it's not that bad, you don't have to worry, the reality is this..." - and then you give them the real story."

Mirage Men by Mark Pilkington

The question is: Why would you give the Disclosure process secret away ahead of time?

If he's just throwing out a theory, why mention Serpo which he helped to promote? Read that sentence again and take it in if it didn't land with some oomph the first time.

Maybe he felt guilty about Serpo turning out fake and wanted to make it up to us by giving us more false HOPE of something he doesn't really know for sure in a hypothetical statement?

See. What computes? As I see it: He's either telling a tale for as yet undetermined purposes or official disclosure is in progress and he's been a part of it. Take your pick.

But remember: Why would he give the disclosure process away if he's an official and knowledgable part of it? Because that's a part of it too? Again, doesn't compute.

If it's not true, then why the spin? We'll try and figure that out before we're through.

Edit to Add; Dr. Green, ahem, Still Naive said you have been reading this, so please don't mind-control me like you did Springer!

Seriously, these are weighty questions, and I am somewhat torn between my respect for you and the gravity of trying to make sense of it all for me and my ATS fambly.

Springer: Love ya, man!

Originally posted by Still Naive?
No, The GUT, you were not one of the members to request details on the conversation Kit and I had.

Thank you Stliizer, starred, you're a gentleman.

I am not giving any private details as it was the request of Kit for our conversations to stay between him and I.

I will state, however, that he is well aware of Above Top Secret, and he may just be browsing every once in a while.

As a matter in fact, something tells me he's read this thread already...

Something's been telling me that, too. Did he cuss me? Just kidding, I know he wouldn't do that. And I fully understand your gentleman's agreement.

dfgertyergerg ....................Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh must resist, my sinister side is taking me over.

Now, where were we? Oh yes down the Warren having a nice cup o char round GUT's table with Greer as the Doormouse and Vallee as the Madhatter.. So in that case, quite who is the the Cheshire cat?

There is something that is brought to mind here that GUT has sort of, touched upon and maybe it was always there staring us all straight in the face with a rather large grin. That is, down the years, there have been quite a few who have thought they have "cracked it" with regards to the whole UFO conundrum. That would include the likes of Adamski and Meier who, there does seem to be a kernel of truth behind them both having a genuine experience and then, as if from a deep sense of disappointment at not having more went on to, simply make stuff up.

Funnily enough, in "Operation Trojan Horse"keel makes a similar observation about many psychics who, in their early stages often do seem to exhibit a "genuine gift" only to find themselves deserted by their "friends from the other side" and left pedalling cold readings for the rest of their lives.

Given that I see no reason why there aren't those who have been, as one could put it, "intellectually disappointed" and they themselves then find they are between, as it were, a rock and a hard place. That is they genuinely though they had found something that was the "real deal" with regards to official files/paperwork/minutes of meetings that, the moment they went public with them, the evidence they thought, themselves, was concrete, simply turned to dust before their very eyes. Therefore, maybe the question could be, were they just set on deliberate disinformation, were they just genuinely convinced and had left their critical thinking behind because they were so sure or, might there have been some genuine papers they saw that, by the time they found their way into the public sphere had been swapped for something less?

Were some of the whistle blowers, genuine in intent and convinced of the veracity of the evidence they had seen, only to be bamboozled by the papers/evidence they actually released being contaminated? Furthermore, who does the contaminating of the evidence? The various governments that have been involved, in the final analysis, often lack any from of true subtlety. There is another option however, it is a damnably uncomfortable one and yet, I suspect, it's one that Vallee and Keel have/had/ both considered. That is, at times, almost as if with the wave of a wand, the "non human" intelligence behind this whole phenomenon, contaminates the evidence themselves?

It leaves you with, only your own perspective. and experience to go by, be it for or against. Mine would be that, in my experience and that's the key point in a quantum multiverse, it is essentially subjective and can, by definition never really be objective that. Yes, I understand "Magical Thinking" I understand "blind chance and coincidence", I understand how magnetic fields can lead us to have totally believable "hallucinatory experiences" yet, beyond all that, there lies a rump of "happenings" that defy those categorisations.

I don't think Vallee has ever really changed his outlook on the "Valensoles" incident in so much as, it did leave very physical "real traces". For me, I had a friend who took a very good photo of a UFO they had for several years and a good few people saw it. Then one day his house was broken into to, the place totally trashed as if a simple act of wanton vandalism as nothing seemed to be stolen. Only, a couple of weeks later they discovered something had indeed been stolen and it was the photograph and the photograph and nothing else. Strange thing is, the photograph alone would prove nothing however, it was a quite rare case, where he took the photo and there were over a dozen other visual witnesses watching what happened. Coincidence? really? I'm sorry, as rational as I like to think I can be, when pushed, that really does stretch the bounds of what I'm willing to right off as "just bad luck".

That leads me to hypothesise the following, that the "intelligence" behind it all, can just as easily swap stuff around in the bowels of a government filing vault and replace good with fake as easily as they can, seemingly, fly rings round our best technology.

Originally posted by chrisb9

It would be appreciated if you could mention some type of counter measures that any of us might be able to use to help Protect ourselves from any of these type of weapons. For example, if someone was pointing a pistol at any of us, if we had on a bullet proof vest, that would go a long way to help stopping a bullet. And if a laser beam where pointed at any of us, a simple mirror would be able to block and bounce the laser beam away from us.

Consider the glass on the front of your microwave oven. This glass is opaque to microwaves.
You can do an internet search for "opaque to microwaves" to verify that regular glass is an adequate protector against microwave emissions.

Put an egg by itself in a microwave and you get fun messy explosion after a minute or two depending on the power level and microwave used.
Put an egg inside a fully enclosed glass container (glass on all side including the top) and the egg may experience some heat from the glass (opaque to microwaves) being heated, but, the egg will not be subject to direct microwave heating/influence.

Glass is your answer when it comes to microwaves.


A foreseeable problem with microwaves involves development of microwave 'lasers', otherwise known as Masers, that are substantially more powerful than lasers:
Researcher creates most powerful Maser ever ...

Such could, regardless the opacity of glass, literally punch physical holes through the glass, but, that kind of a Maser would already be a deadly weapon, so with such intent of platform, there'd be very little defense against something set to deadly.

reply to post by The GUT


How is Bruce Maccabee connected to the CIA?