The Blessing of Armageddon Has Begun!! The Fun Starts.

Originally posted by CookieMonster09
Just curious if the original poster understands the term, "halakah" or "halachic ruling". I would be curious to know what one finds so terribly offensive about Jewish law. Is there something about the Ten Commandments that you find so offensive?

Is this an anti-semitic, or even anti-Israel thread?

I have read extensively on Jewish Law. The Torah - the first 5 books of the Bible - contain an extensive array of rules and regulations for civil society, and must be read in context along with corresponding commentary.

"An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth", for example, is not to be taken literally. No, it refers to adequate monetary compensation. Before you accuse Jewish Law of being so irrational - I would beg to differ. Jewish Law is very, very complex, and extremely detailed and specific. It is highly rational as well. I actually couldn't think of a better code of laws to organize society in a rational manner.

Yes, I do understand the Terms, or I would not have used them, and I do agree to an extent that of most religious codes of law,, it is one of the more "Fair" ones,, but that is not the point,, it is Religious Law. I also, have read and studied 'extensively',, and actually took Hebrew Inside of a wonderful Temple in my hometown. So your previous comment on me being anti-semetic is really all in your mind,, not mine.

No, just because I pick on Israel in this post,, and a rabbi,, doesn't make me an Anti-semite, nor to the Christians and Muslims.
I can dislike an INSTITUTION, Government without hating the people, that is a lame statement only meant to paint me in a light that is NOT TRUE BY ANY MEANS... So apology is in order on your part.

I am Not Jewish, Christian nor Muslim,, so why should I be subject to laws which are of a religious nature?
What is wrong with Secular Law in this regard,, even if it is correct that secular law is ''born of'' religious law? For the Most part Secular Law TRYS to be Pluralistic,, and Religious Law speaks only to those who fall under the said religion. I would personally prefer a broader scope of Law that starts with the premise that FIRST AND FOREMOST,, I AM A HUMAN.
and go from there.

As far as a better code,, well that is the point also,, we need to define a code of Law that Speaks to ALL HUMANITY Not just Chosen people here and there who want their set of rules set over Secular Law Over Everyone else,, believers and non believers alike.

Originally posted by sumogeek
I appreciate the OP's position here and contend that America is about to join them. Just today the republicans added outlawing abortion to their platform and Romney stated that "the separation of church and state has gone too far". These actions and statements mesh with Joseph Smiths' "White Horse Prophecy" which calls for a theocratically run government with a mormon president.

Yes,, you are very correct,, and I am glad someone sees the connection.
The White Horse Prophecy is something to be discussed,, will search to see if a thread already exists on this item few understand.

Romney is so out of touch with what it means to be an American.

There is NOT ENOUGH SEPARATION,, that is the meat of this Thread,, that it will lead us all to the doorstep of Armageddon while the believers say GOD"S WILL...

sad sad sad...
thanks for bringing this item up,,, I have a few things to say on this,, but will save for later when I can focus on just that issue,,

still playing catch up with the responses of today,,,, long day at work.....

again Thank you, and hope to hear from you again.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


God Almighty...Is In Total Control...All Bible Prophecy Will Be Fulfilled.

1The burden or oracle (the thing to be lifted up) of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus says the Lord, Who stretches out the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him:
2 Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup or bowl of reeling to all the peoples round about, and in the siege against Jerusalem will there also be a siege against and upon Judah.
3 And in that day I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all peoples; all who lift it or burden themselves with it shall be sorely wounded. And all the nations of the earth shall come and gather together against it.
Zechariah 12

More on Prophecy - www.reasons.org...

reply to post by mazzroth


Actually the Pig thing might have been more related to Totem animals being sacred,, but I get your point,, people do love their bacon

Personally I don't eat meat except under rare occasions and would prefer being Vegan,, but,, love my butter and eggs...

so I can relate some.. but try to respect others beliefs no matter how bizarre.

Originally posted by ResearchEverything777
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

God Almighty...Is In Total Control...All Bible Prophecy Will Be Fulfilled.

1The burden or oracle (the thing to be lifted up) of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Thus says the Lord, Who stretches out the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth and forms the spirit of man within him:
2 Behold, I am about to make Jerusalem a cup or bowl of reeling to all the peoples round about, and in the siege against Jerusalem will there also be a siege against and upon Judah.
3 And in that day I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all peoples; all who lift it or burden themselves with it shall be sorely wounded. And all the nations of the earth shall come and gather together against it.
Zechariah 12

More on Prophecy - www.reasons.org...

I am glad to hear that, and that you believe so,, but Until the day arrives,, and so on so forth,,

I would prefer that you keep your religion out of my Personal life,, and Secular Law for ALL HUMANITY is what is needed,,not laws geared to benefit only the ruling class or dominate religious affiliation.

For further Notice,, I was trained as a Minister myself,, and have read,, not just your fav.. the Holy Bible multiple times, but the Talmud and Quran,,, so I am not talking as someone who has not done the study and work to try and understand these faiths,,, I was raised in a VERY Christian Home,, and my family,,, minus myself still is ardently Christian,, much like yourself..... unless your Jewish,, quoting the book of Zechariah? Which I doubt.

So,, I don't really NEED to have the books quoted to me,, as I have a solid foundation in understanding them very well,, thank you very much

You could try and argue outside of that box,, and might make me think,, but throwing quotes is doing no one here any good,,, I promise.

So try harder next time.

I am not sure I am understanding...are you saying that the rabbi is giving his blessing on armageddon because he is pushing for jewish law being the law of israel?

If so, I must say that is somewhat ignorant. I mean that as no offense, but all practicing jews, at least orthodox, believe that israel should be run according to halakhah...I guess the reason I feel compelled to point this out is due to my own personal experience, since I nearly converted to orthodox judaism in the past...I am just trying to say that of course any orthodox jew would want israel to be run according to halakhah..I used to...

Though I also understand the objection from a secular point of view, but saying that equates to 'blessing armagedon' is insanely extreme and bias...

reply to post by TheJourney


Does Jewish law according to halakhah apply to everyone living in Israel, even if you are not Jewish? What about Muslims and Christians that live in Israel?

Originally posted by rwfresh
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

There is a new solution in town. Give it a try. Israel Loves Iran!

I don't facebook much,, but,, I hope it helps some,, sounds good to me.
Both Sides need to see the "OTHER" as Humans a bit more in my book. Positive energy is always good.

Originally posted by sumogeek
reply to post by TheJourney

 

Does Jewish law according to halakhah apply to everyone living in Israel, even if you are not Jewish? What about Muslims and Christians that live in Israel?

Jewish law only applies to Jews. Non-jews have 7 laws binding on them, known as the 7 laws of Noah.

1. No idolatry
2. No murder
3. No stealing
4. No 'sexual immorality'(I cannot recall the specifics of what constitutes this)
5. No blasphemy
6. No eating from a live animal
7. Establishment of courts of law to enforce these

reply to post by EarthCitizen23

"And All for following the belief system of a couple of Not so Well Written Books, gathered together from sheep herders, desert hermits and assorted madmen who wish nothing but to keep humanity in the darkness of our sad and pitiful past where we have collectively wallowed in the mud of Religious Arrogance."

That bit right there is the most compelling, well spoken piece of effective poetry I've read in the last twenty two days.

This is not your ordinary Rabbi at the local temple,

...followed by a picture of the rabbi as a form of criticism.

So,, My good Christian friends of Israel,, you got what you have been praying for,, an Israeli Taliban movement in power..... Good going,, I hope you are happy with all you have done to make this party something special.

..more criticism.

And All for following the belief system of a couple of Not so Well Written Books, gathered together from sheep herders, desert hermits and assorted madmen who wish nothing but to keep humanity in the darkness of our sad and pitiful past where we have collectively wallowed in the mud of Religious Arrogance.

...mocking the Jewish faith, tongue in cheek.

The "Good" Rabbi,, is Not alone in his desire to bring about the day of Judgement,

...now she goes back to poking fun of the respected Jewish rabbi.

No, just because I pick on Israel in this post,, and a rabbi,, doesn't make me an Anti-semite, nor to the Christians and Muslims.

Hmmm. Something just doesn't add up here. You mock, poke fun, and criticize the Jewish faith (and Islam, and Christianity for that matter), but somehow you don't seem to think this is offensive to well-meaning people of faith. Strange.

I can dislike an INSTITUTION, Government without hating the people, that is a lame statement only meant to paint me in a light that is NOT TRUE BY ANY MEANS... So apology is in order on your part.

Must be some warped sense of humor. An apology will not be forthcoming. You could have easily made your point had you approached these matters in earnestness and sincerity instead of mockery and derision.

I am Not Jewish, Christian nor Muslim,, so why should I be subject to laws which are of a religious nature?

And, conversely, why should anyone be subject to the vagaries of secular law?

What is wrong with Secular Law in this regard,, even if it is correct that secular law is ''born of'' religious law?

And, conversely, why not go to the true source of the law, instead of a watered down, perverted, and misinterpreted secular law?

As far as a better code,, well that is the point also,, we need to define a code of Law that Speaks to ALL HUMANITY

Muslims would argue that Shariah Law speaks to all of humanity. Orthodox Jewish communities thrive under Jewish law.

In fact, in many Orthodox Jewish communities where Jewish law is taught in the schools from a very young age, crime in these communities is virtually non-existent. Secular law doesn't even come close.

Originally posted by TheJourney
I am not sure I am understanding...are you saying that the rabbi is giving his blessing on armageddon because he is pushing for jewish law being the law of israel?

If so, I must say that is somewhat ignorant. I mean that as no offense, but all practicing jews, at least orthodox, believe that israel should be run according to halakhah...I guess the reason I feel compelled to point this out is due to my own personal experience, since I nearly converted to orthodox judaism in the past...I am just trying to say that of course any orthodox jew would want israel to be run according to halakhah..I used to...

Though I also understand the objection from a secular point of view, but saying that equates to 'blessing armagedon' is insanely extreme and bias...

edit on 21-8-2012 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)

It would only be extreme if this Rabbi was NOTactively working with the Defense ministers and leaders there in Israel. He is courted by many who wish for religious rule,, but I can promise,, not ALL ISRAELI People believe the same. Most whom I have spoken with want a secular government,, because they know the dangers of giving a religion too much wiggle room. Jewish, Muslim or Christian.
I guess that they want to make sure it is Kosher to Kill Other Human Beings to facilitate their Political Goals.
No different from the taliban in my eyes
I am not ignorant of the facts you point to, just not impressed with the logic.

Originally posted by pegasi51
reply to post by EarthCitizen23

 

"And All for following the belief system of a couple of Not so Well Written Books, gathered together from sheep herders, desert hermits and assorted madmen who wish nothing but to keep humanity in the darkness of our sad and pitiful past where we have collectively wallowed in the mud of Religious Arrogance."

That bit right there is the most compelling, well spoken piece of effective poetry I've read in the last twenty two days.

thank you,, and as you see,, some disagree vehemently and that is understandable because they are not used to being attacked for their own bias. ,, it is the arrogance of these religions that will be their downfall.

thanks and hope to hear more from you on this subject

thiss....might not be good.

it is the arrogance of these religions that will be their downfall.

...more anti-religious zealotry.

Most whom I have spoken with want a secular government,, because they know the dangers of giving a religion too much wiggle room.

Not exactly an objective, scientific poll.

I guess that they want to make sure it is Kosher to Kill Other Human Beings to facilitate their Political Goals.

Wow. Kosher, eh? Do you want to make any more jabs at the Jewish faith, or have we had enough already?

some disagree vehemently and that is understandable because they are not used to being attacked for their own bias.

No. We just recognize bigotry and bias when we see it. This is not a discussion. This is you trying to pander to others that hold your same views. Nothing more. There is such a thing as secular bigotry, and you've made a pretty good demonstration of it here.

Originally posted by TheJourney

Originally posted by sumogeek
reply to post by TheJourney

 

Does Jewish law according to halakhah apply to everyone living in Israel, even if you are not Jewish? What about Muslims and Christians that live in Israel?

Jewish law only applies to Jews. Non-jews have 7 laws binding on them, known as the 7 laws of Noah.

1. No idolatry
2. No murder
3. No stealing
4. No 'sexual immorality'(I cannot recall the specifics of what constitutes this)
5. No blasphemy
6. No eating from a live animal
7. Establishment of courts of law to enforce these

edit on 21-8-2012 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)

Even in 'their' laws for Non Jews we see the Religious arrogance at work. #2, #3, #6 and #7 I can go along with,, 7 being the iffy one,, but still their god is creeping in here,,

#1
If someone wishes to worship a statue,, that is between their creator and them,,, not me or any police force set to enforce the laws for the Unbelievers.
#2 Keep your god out of my bedroom please. Sexual Crimes such as Rape and Incest are some exceptions to this rule and should have their own definitions within Secular Law.
# Blasphemy? against who? Your God? or any and All Gods and Goddesses?
#7
the establishment of this court to rule,, should be Secular,, even they seem to agree. Minus the insertion of their god bias.

I understand and agree with what you say from a standard point of view.

My point is this. I don't know how you want to divy it up, but people of all belief systems or viewpoints deserve to have a 'nation' or 'government' of some type that represents your beliefs. Jewish belief absolutely hinges on having a torah-observant 'government' in israel. It's just fundamental. Judaism isn't even complete, outside of Israel and without the temple. They deserve to have what their religion calls for.

I say the same for all. I think Muslims deserve to have a governing body that runs according to sharia law. I think anarchists deserve their own space. I think communists deserve their space. Etc. As a general rule of thumb, I think all belief systems deserve the opportunity to function after their own principles, rather than the entire world homogenizing under the same principles.

reply to post by EarthCitizen23


Ugh, I was interested until I realized this post was completely tainted by the "waa waa I make assumptions about religions I don't understand because I hate religion" mindset. Could have been a good OP without that.

So those of you who wish to peruse, and maybe look into some of the background information that has influence the way I believe about this matter of Religions pushing us towards an Mutual destruction,, (commonly called Armageddon in today's parlance) I submit some information to follow up on. This is of course not a total reconstruction of my worldviews evolution,, but gives you an idea of some of my own thought processes, if you are able to see it objectively.

Thanks for all the Input so far,,, from both sides..

A good starting point is from a doctor who sees the need to have more input from his and other medical fields regarding this situation humans have let evolve.
Inching Towards Armageddon, a Psychiatric View

and this I read in one sitting,, great starting point for the "Unbelievers" regarding this situation of global importance.Subtitled: The Three Great Religions and the Plot to End the World you have to love this book, and I suggest ALL read it to get a better understanding of what is going on.
Racing Towards Armageddon

Here is part of a review of another book worth reading, to give you an idea that this is NOT something I just Made UP yesterday.
the book is Skipping Towards Armageddon subtitled: The Politics and Propaganda of the Left Behind Novels and the LaHaye Empire

Standaert offers a good overview of LaHaye and like-minded folk and how they (ab)use religion for their ends. Of particular interest -- and particularly disturbing -- is the reach they have and the political power they have come to wield (much of it veiled behind a very secretive manner). From the abuse of non-profit status by religious organizations to the consequences of these ridiculous beliefs on foreign and domestic policy, Standaert shows what a pernicious effect LaHaye and his cohorts have had on American society and politics. And, despite the constant cries of 'Wolf !', they're still going strong.

I could give more source material,, but this should give those who think I pulled this Rabbit out of my own personal rear end,,something to read. I doubt they will read them,, but we can hope.

reply to post by dogstar23


I hardly hate religion,, why would I have made a lifetime of study of it if that was the case.

Now the Institutions that Religion has created,, those are fair game in my book and should all be held accountable for their own sins.


sorry you feel that way,, as I enjoy your posts and threads,, but that is OK. but you could point out what I don't Understand if you like,, at least that would give me more to go on, than what you wrote.