Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigrants

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer on Wednesday ordered state agencies to deny driver's licenses and other public benefits to young illegal immigrants who obtain work authorizations under a new Obama administration policy.

After the order was issued, supporters of the program and the DREAM Act took to the streets of Phoenix in protest. Video from Air15 showed the protesters carrying signs and walking down Central Avenue toward the State Capitol.

In an executive order, Brewer said she was reaffirming the intent of current Arizona law denying taxpayer-funded public benefits and state identification to illegal immigrants.

Young illegal immigrants around the nation on Wednesday began the process of applying for federal work permits under the federal Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program.

The federal policy defers deportations for that group if they meet certain criteria, including arrival in the United States before they turned 16 and no convictions for certain crimes.

www.abc15.com...

So Brewer, sick of taxpayers putting up the huge amounts of money to sustain illegals, finally issues the middle finger to the Obama administration, with some executive orders of her own!

I was just reading about this insane policy from Obama, granting illegals the ability to work under deferred charges. In other words, this back door amnesty will look the other way at criminals in the face, and instead pander to them. What a slap in the face to border patrol agents who get shot at every day just trying to do their jobs!

This will no doubt bring law suits from the feds, who refuse to even enforce US immigration law. Absolute madness, and I for one agree with Brewer. If the feds refuse to enforce the law, and the citizens of Arizona and other border states have to bear the brunt of this insanity, then she has every right to take matters into her own hands. Because if she doesn't, who in the hell will? Cause the feds ain't cuttin it.

about time =D

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

What's so hard to understand about this: Their parents brought them over. Their parents should be deported. They should be deported with them.

They shouldn't blame us, they should blame their parents for being criminals.

the problem is they has no records and they are collecting DSHS money for free, more illegals have insurance then the natural born citizens of our country. they are also collecting more tax refunds then they actually paying out by declaring indaviduals (kids) that IRS dont fallow up. Open your eyes you would know this if you actually ever built something. who do you think does the most construction or construction workers are, destroying the middle class, that can only grow by being unionzied. you cant help the middle class alone you have to do it as a class,period. no one fraking gets it, we cant grow with out being a partnership !!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Secretary of Georgia's Department of Agriculture was giving a speech here in Tallahassee earlier this year. He said Georgia farmers would lose $2.5 billion this year because of immigration law changes. They could not plant, maintain, and harvest the crops they are used to harvesting without the illegal workers. He heard a bit of a sigh from the crowd, and he addressed it. He said, "I'm glad to hear you all respond that way. We have a lot of openings, and I know unemployment is a big issue, and anyone that would like one of these jobs, please see me afterwards." Then he smiled, and he said, "but, you'll have to WORK." He KNEW nobody wanted to take those jobs. $2.5B in revenue lost, while unemployment skyrockets.

How Immigration legislation drains budgets.

Now, once again, I'm all for securing the borders, but I also know the seasonal farm work, and the construction industry, and the meat processing industries have a hard enough time filling positions even with illegals.

SO, the solution is multi-pronged. If we fix immigration, we have to also fix social programs so that it is not a career choice. People need to starve a little, then maybe they'll go take those available jobs. Unemployment benefits should never be longer than 13 weeks while jobs are going unfilled, that is ludicrous! Welfare cash benefits should never go beyond 6 months. Within 6 months, either you are determined to be disabled, or you have had plenty of time to make arrangements and get back on your feet. I have no problem with food stamps, but they give away too much money. Cut that benefit in half. $1200 a month for groceries for a family of 4? What the hell are they eating?

If you want to fix immigration, fix our social programs and secure the border, and then work on getting the hard-working illegals documented, and deport the ones that are not hard-working.

I am from AZ and my gov is only doing what we, the lawful citizens have, with our votes, overwhelmingly and loudly told her to do.

I find it very telling that this "Act" that Obama has put in place is temporary...just until Feb.
This is all about him garnering votes from a group of people that previous to this Act were unable to vote and who have been living off the backs of taxpayers in this state like me for the past 30 years.

Now that we have finally gotten rid of the corrupt politicians that have hampered the fine people of this States' wishes, (see Janet Napolitano, et al) Gov Brewer is finally taking care of the business of cleaning this State of corruption and rampant illegal immigration that we have wanted and needed for decades.

I fully support what she is doing.

I have zero problems with people who came here before they were fifteen or sixteen receiving amnesty. They didn't choose to come here, and most of them are every bit as American as I am.

However, I want illegal adults deported and employers who employ them to be heavily fined for every infraction. I want people who have anchor babies to have the child taken and given up for adoption or deported back with the parents.

Gang affiliation or evidence of ever having been in one should, at the least, result in some watching. I think that evidence of having been in the a random mafia, Italian Russian Mexican, or a high profile violent gang like MS-13 should result in a lifetime ban with zero chance of ever immigrating.

Also, don't give me that crap about them doing work that Americans won't do. In most cases, it's a bunch of hogwash.

Originally posted by Daedalus24
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

What part of these kids not being granted citizenship through any automatic means do you not UNDERSTAND? What part of these kids being brought here as toddlers in many cases and have no notion of being a citizen of the country they originated from? Would we ever penalize a child for a crime their parent committed? NO! Then why do you suggest that we ship these kids back to a country that they have no recollection of and force them to "get in the back of the line" to serve out a punishment imo that they do not deserve??? How is that at all fair or just? How will legalizing these kids, which would take 10+ years be considered amnesty, how can they then turn around and petition for their parents to be legalized which in turn takes another 10-20 years? How does that even make sense and how is that even a valid argument when no one in their right mind would rather wait 30 years to get legalized through their children which they brought illegally which would eventually become legal rather than wait 10 years for a visa? How does that even make sense in your mind or in anyone's mind who opposes the DREAM Act? Do you or anyone who opposes it actually know the inner-workings of the immigration system? Have any of you even read the DREAM Act? Have any of you even read the change in detainment policy that Obama put out that lead to this Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals policy being enacted by DHS??? If you honestly read any of that or had a flipping clue about how jacked up the immigration laws are in this country then you would honestly not have that *ship them back where they came from* attitude, unless you actually don't care about justice or have no shred of sympathy.

It is not the fault of the kids just as it is not the fault of a child whos parent robs a bank. If the child of the bank robber is in essence 'penalized' by not having that parent there to provide for them, offer financial and emotional support or whatever else they must suffer, it is still the law and consequences are paid. Do we ignore the law because the child will suffer in some way? No, the law is that you don't rob banks and you go to jail. The law for the illegal immigrant means that they are not supposed to be here until they go through the proper channels. Many have had years to do so and chose not to. Yes it is difficult, but millions of others have done so. In enforcing the law, the illegal and their illegal children get deported. We don't pick and choose which laws we wish to follow. We do not enforce laws for some and turn our heads for others.

These illegal kids deserve sympathy of course, but not special privaleges. It is sad and frustrating for them no doubt. However, their parents knew full well what the kids would be encountering in their futures and chose to stay illegally anyway. It is a risk they took that involved the very well being of that child. Blame the parent, not the country their parents brought them to. I wouldn't dream of a country changing its laws and giving me special privaleges because my parents broke the law of that country.

The illegal kids are strangers to their own country because of their parents, not because of you or I or the USA. If it is a punishment for them to return to their own country then take it out on the parents.

You talk about justice. Is it right that an illegal should get a job before an American citizen or someone coming through the proper channels? Do you know what it must feel like to be turned away from a job, a way to provide food, shelter and medical for your family while an illegal holds a job instead? Tell me ,how is that just?

Where is the justice for the thousands of citizens who have lost their lives because of an illegal and our laws not being enforced? Many of those illegals have had previous arrests and deportations. You think that is fair or right??? You see, these illegals come here without a health or background check bringing in disease and criminals. Many illegals would not be allowed to come here even if they went through the proper channels. Where is the justice in lawlessness?

reply to post by TrueAmerican


You do realize that this law applies to children who were brought here illegally by their parents. These people had no choice in the matter and committed no crime. I am astounded by the lenghts your hatred for Pres Obama goes that you pretend to not understand what something is about so that you can bash him yet again. Like you do about once a week.

reply to post by beezzer


Heck I was born here and I dont even know how to apply for any entitlement money. I feel like I am entitled to more than I have but..........

People need to understand, that oftentimes, one of the main reasons many Mexicans come here illegally is because they have children.
see this post

Although I cannot blame a parent for wanting a better life for their children, doing so illegally sets a very bad example....see this post

I really feel badly for my friend in Phoenix, Jose, a Mexican national, who in the 80's went through the process to become a legal citizen of this country. He went through the long and arduous process to become an American citizen. All of this BS that we are seeing and discussing here today is an utter slap in the face to people like him and I am ashamed of this federal gov't for disrespecting him and others like him.

reply to post by Elostone


It is indeed a slap in the face to those who are going through the proper channels. Not only that, but this program is for children up to 30 years old! Many of these people havn't been a child for many years and had plenty of time to become legal and chose not to. And...we have no idea how many of these 'children' will use fraudulant documents which are easy to obtain. This whole thing is a mess.

There are millions of these 'kids', who will be having anchor babies and adding millions more to the population who shouldn't be here because their parents should have been deported. There is no end to this bull.

It may not be their fault that they are here, but they are still here illegally and shouldn't be rewarded with an easy way out when so many others have jumped hoops to get here. What other country would give them an easy way out? Their damned parents made the decision for them and it was the wrong choice. There are consequences to be paid.

This story isn't about what's right or wrong for criminal immigrants, IMO.

That is a whole different thing and it HAS been publicly debated with attempts made to bring reform in Congress. Under our system, that is where those debates and changes originate. They do NOT originate from *ONE MAN* because he thinks he wants it that way.

There are reasons why our nation does not permit things like this President is doing. Jan Brewer is to be commended and EVERY STATE should follow her lead.

I had not fully understood by the first news stories that this gives criminal aliens a Social Sec Card and a Drivers License. A fully qualified, un-noted and standard drivers license. What is our President thinking????

Jan Brewer apparently DID consider what I am sharing with you here and it's why I'm sharing it here, on-topic. This was, apparently, a part of her thinking, as well it should have been. 'Do Gooders' with the good intentions are what spawned the saying about the road being paved to a very hot place.

Unintended Consequences

Q: Are there certain persons who cannot legally receive or possess firearms and/or ammunition?
Yes, a person who —

- Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding 1 year;
- Is a fugitive from justice;
- Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
- Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to a mental institution;
- Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States or an alien admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa;
- Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
- Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship;
- Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate -partner or child of such intimate partner; or
- Has been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence
- Cannot lawfully receive, possess, ship, or transport a firearm.

Source - ATF FAQ at BATFE Website

I'm not even sure if they are legally disqualified anymore as an actual matter of law. Anyone else?? However, even if they aren't... Having that drivers license fully legal and not notated as being to someone without proper and full legal residency status (Federal *LAW* doesn't allow for that yet and won't until CONGRESS changes it) creates a whole different problem....Unless we INTENDED to give criminal aliens the ability to buy guns over the counter?

If you go to buy a firearm from a licensed dealer in the United States, they run a background check. It's required, as everyone knows. That is usually an instant answer of yes or no. Unless a state has additional laws about it, that is the end of the sale and (If approved) it's handed directly to the purchaser, on the spot and they walk out with it. That is how Federal Law handles it. If the answer comes back 'DENY', the purchase is denied and it's over. However....often enough there is a "DELAY" status. I get this every time I buy a gun for things in my past that aren't relevant here, but the status and issue is VERY real.

In "DELAY" cases, a different procedure applies that I DOUBT many people even know exists. THIS is why we don't have ONE MAN making laws in our system. They MISS THINGS. Like THIS:

If it is determined that prohibitive criteria exists, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DENY the firearm transaction. If potentially prohibitive criteria exists and more information is required in order to make the determination, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL to DELAY the firearm transaction and the FFL will receive the following instructions:

“. . .NTN ___ will be delayed while the NICS continues its research. If you do not receive a final response from us, the Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of the firearm on day/date.”

The NICS Examiner will provide the FFL with the date of the third business day after the firearm check was initiated. Business days do not include the day the check was initiated, Saturdays, Sundays, and any day state offices in the state of purchase are closed. If the FFL has not received from the NICS a final determination after three business days have elapsed since the delay response, it is within the FFL’s discretion whether or not to transfer the firearm (if state law permits the transfer).

Source

Arizona Gun Law highlights
^^ That isn't my usual official source, but it covers what is and isn't required. U.S. Citizen is for CCW Permit. I didn't see above-federal restriction on base purchase on that.

This is CRAZY to have done. Just crazy. This is just ONE reason.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Well then why don't you take that argument into Jan Brewer's office, and see how quickly you are shown the door.

That's your response?

I know I'd get thrown out, because Jan Brewer is a racist (imo) and she doesn't give a damn about anybody who wasn't actually born here.

The problem is that Jan Brewer actually doesn't want to solve the illegal immigration problem, other than throw them all out, put up a 100 foot fence and shoot anybody who tries to cross it.

~Tenth

What an excellent IDEA,,,,,,,,,would my $100.00 donation speed it up any?

OH BTW, just saying.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Ok, so what don't people understand about this?

It's not amnesty.

These immigrants came here with their parents, they didn't choose to cross the border illegally they were taken to the Untied States. They grew up here, went to school here, worked here.

They are just as American as you or any other who was actually born here if they were taken here as children.

The program only provides a temporary stay with work permits and ID's so that they may apply for the proper paths to citizenship without being deported. The problem with the current system without this new law is that most illegals who applied for citizenship were then deported from the country.

And there's a 465$ fee associated with the application, which ammounts to several hundred million dollars to pay for the program. Tax Payer money isn't being used.

~Tenth

I would tend to agree with everything you just said, but the problem that some people have with this (including me) is the timing. How convenient it will be for a certain presidential candidate to have a couple million more potential voters armed with fresh IDs. Let's not even get into the voter ID/voter fraud issue, because many of these people WILL be voting this November. Ya know, as a "thank you".

reply to post by TrueAmerican


The only real problem I have had with all this immigration bull is that... when our economy was great no one had a problem hiring illegals and using their cheap labor. It was not as big an issue as it is today. It was very easy for small business owners to benefit from their labor but now that the economy has taken a turn they are seen as a drain and everyone wants them out. ( even big business like wally world benefitted from hiring illegals.)

how convenient and screwed up is that. yeah we will use you then discard you.

The thing that bothers me is that I don't think people really know how illegals work. If you work under the table then it is the person who is hiring them that is at fault not illegals. If they work for a company with false documentation they still have taxes taken out of their pay. So essentially they still pay taxes. If they shop here they pay taxes. Maybe they don't pay income taxes?? but aren't income taxes bullcrap to begin with?? If they buy a home that employs people, if they shop to furnish the home that employs people, if they look for entertainment ont he weekend that employs people, if they drink that employs people.... i am trying to understand exactly where the problem is.

Now them breaking the law to come here in the first place is worng, it is also wrong to not enforce your own laws.

It is pretty messed up to never enforce a law, allow people to make their life in the country illegally then turn around and begin to enforce it and kick everyone out. Even if you want to kick out the parents what about the kids who had no choice but to be here??

The only thing i can think of is deep rooted hate for certain kinds of people. I mean hell i still get crap for being mexican at work so it is not far fetched to believe half of you have racist bigoted views. I had one man tell me at my job that he was not sure how it was going to be to work witha mexican and that he says i am alright that i am just like one of them... I am hearing this kind of crap in a telecommunications company in their engineering branch.. i just facepalmed.


I think if immigration laws are going to be enforced that whoever is here should be allowed to become a citizen or leave if they do not do so. If they do not want to officiallly be part of this country then they should not be here.

I do not support illegal immigration, never have. Most of my family has worked in the usa on and off before i came around. they went through the proper channels so i really do not see why it is so difficult to do things legally. If my grandparents were able to do it I don't know why so many can't .

reply to post by tothetenthpower


You are absolutely correct!

So, the excuse is that they were brought here by the illegal parents braking the law and is not their fault

Now with the incredible unemployment rates in the US and the growing welfare state can somebody tell me what jobs this young illegals will be getting?

I guess the next thing when is not jobs to be found is welfare benefits and unemployment

Yeah, America the great where is opportunity even for illegals to drain the productive working class that still clings to a job.

reply to post by getreadyalready


I must disagree. My dad, his eight brothers and his mother grew up dirt poor in Arkansas and Kentucky. They worked for years as migrant pickers. They picked just about every kind of vegetable & fruit you can think of. When I was a teenager I worked summers detassling corn & later, shoveling corn and bucking bales of hay.
I live in an area now that has a lot of migrant pickers. Americans can & will do these jobs if necessary to earn a living. But as long as they get years of unemployment there is no incentive to work hard, even if that means doing a menial job. The real problem is the federal government and their insane policies.

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

The only real problem I have had with all this immigration bull is that... when our economy was great no one had a problem hiring illegals and using their cheap labor. It was not as big an issue as it is today.

There were lots of people who had grave concerns with the growing illegal immigrations problem. The problem is that no one listened to them. Government failed to act then to prevent what some now consider a national crisis.

Originally posted by votan

The thing that bothers me is that I don't think people really know how illegals work. If you work under the table then it is the person who is hiring them that is at fault not illegals. If they work for a company with false documentation they still have taxes taken out of their pay. So essentially they still pay taxes. If they shop here they pay taxes. Maybe they don't pay income taxes?? but aren't income taxes bullcrap to begin with??

My sister in law works for Tropicana. Her department had to keep the SS numbers of the pickers and other employees. She would see the same SS number used for multiple employees. I don't exactly know how their tracking system worked but I do know that a lot of these illegals lived in shacks and sent most of their money back to Mexico.

They weren't buying houses or new cars. They are taking money out of our economy. We can't afford that anymore.

Originally posted by Sparky63
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

I must disagree. My dad, his eight brothers and his mother grew up dirt poor in Arkansas and Kentucky. They worked for years as migrant pickers. They picked just about every kind of vegetable & fruit you can think of. When I was a teenager I worked summers detassling corn & later, shoveling corn and bucking bales of hay.
I live in an area now that has a lot of migrant pickers. Americans can & will do these jobs if necessary to earn a living. But as long as they get years of unemployment there is no incentive to work hard, even if that means doing a menial job. The real problem is the federal government and their insane policies.

Actually, I don't think you're disagreeing at all. I think you nailed it. Americans can and will do these jobs IF we fix the social program problems and give them an incentive to actually work for their money again!