Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigrants

reply to post by TrueAmerican


TA, you have earned some respect on these boards, but in this case you are dead wrong and certainly morally deficient. You just said, "this back door amnesty will look the other way at criminals ."

CRIMINALS?! Really? You are going to label as a criminal some kid who was brought in to the states at 4 years old by his parents? That's a criminal to you? All such a kid knows is this country, in many cases can't even speak the language of his parents and maybe has no relatives in his parents country. That's a CRIMINAL to you? Bull crap, that kid is as True American as any kid of yours or mine.

For God's sake, we are morally broken in this nation. It really is sad. Back in the day it'd not be even a thought that these sort of folks would not be accommodated an given a path to citizenship. in FACT, the Dream Act was originally a Republican idea, but once Obama endorsed it, it became a communist evil plot proving he wants to destroy America.

In other words, the Right is enthusiastic about shedding it ethics and decency for the sole blind agenda to see Obama fail and it will do it no matter the very real price to fellow humans. If it takes the condemnation or death of hundreds or maybe thousands of innocent humans to remove Obama, to the Right (the "Christian" Right) that is no problem.

reply to post by TrueAmerican


I didn't call you a racist, I don't know why you are all upset.

Jan Brewer's behavior has indicated that she makes policy based on race and skin color.

That's racist. I'm sorry, but just because you don't want it to be true does not make it so. Furthermore, she has NO interest in resolving the illegal immigration problem via paths to citizenship.

You can't argue that fact. She wants to deport ALL illegalss, period.

'An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.'

~Tenth

Don't worry, the FEDS will step in and put a stop to it, any way they can.

Meaning obama has lost 11 electoral votes and possibly millions more.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Actually, Jan Brewers policies are based on legal citizenship.

Not race or colour.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Actually, Jan Brewers policies are based on legal citizenship.

Not race or colour.

She should really make that clear then. Cause as it stands, she hasn't made any indication of that being the case.

How many white Americans have been checked of ID under their new law?

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
She wants to deport ALL illegalss, period.

ROFL, you just argued yourself right out of your own argument! If she wants to deport ALL illegals (which is simply following federal law), then how is that racist? I think the one that can't face the truth here isn't Jan Brewer or me.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Actually, Jan Brewers policies are based on legal citizenship.

Not race or colour.

She should really make that clear then. Cause as it stands, she hasn't made any indication of that being the case.

How many white Americans have been checked of ID under their new law?

~Tenth

Well, if you're white (who cares) and an American, then you wouldn't be.
(okay, I'll remove tongue from cheek)

I don't know. What I do know is that illegal immigration is a major issue in Arizona. It's not just Brewer, but legal citizens are also fed up with it as well.

Why is it that only Arizona gets called a racist state when California has similar immigration laws of its own?

Anybody ever notice that?

reply to post by beezzer


I"m not saying it isn't.

I just don't think Jan Brewer is doing the right thing overall for her state.

She hasn't solved the problem with her radical policy. The Federal Government and the States need to come up with a plan, together, in order to combat the problem.

However when it comes to the children of illegals, who were brought here and raised here, without the choice of remaining in their own country, it's not right to deport them back to a place they have no real roots in.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by beezzer

 

I"m not saying it isn't.

I just don't think Jan Brewer is doing the right thing overall for her state.

She hasn't solved the problem with her radical policy. The Federal Government and the States need to come up with a plan, together, in order to combat the problem.

However when it comes to the children of illegals, who were brought here and raised here, without the choice of remaining in their own country, it's not right to deport them back to a place they have no real roots in.

~Tenth

Well, there's your problem. The Federal government refuses to follow federal law and is manipulating immigrant status soley for electoral reasons.

Brewer actually is obeying the law.

This is more about the feds telling states what to do then immigration. She did the right thing here telling the feds to shove it and cutting off the incentives for more illegals to come here. I feel for the kids who grew up here children of illegals through no fault of their own but how do you prove that? The feds have no right to tell the states what to do on this.

Well if the state doesn't do what the FED wants, it'll just be sued into oblivion and all federal moneys withdrawn.

You don't mess with the fed. They are all powerful.

Originally posted by AshleyD

The main issue I have with this 'amnesty' (or whatever you want to call it) is that our economy is so very tough right now with high unemployment. It hardly seems fair citizens should suffer. However, my heart does go out to the youth who had no choice but to be raised here.

On a site note, from what I understand Congress killed the Dream Act by voting it down but Obama went ahead with it anyways? I really don't think that is right for him to bypass the checks and balances.

It's a tough situation all the way around created by our porous borders for decades.

edit on 8/16/2012 by AshleyD because: (no reason given)

Congress killed the Dream Act yes, Obama isn't going ahead with it. All he really did was deprioritize deportations of people that qualify for this program until February. Having the net effect of insulating them until after the election, when the Dream Act can be revisited and passed. An Obama win would indicate that it would probably be one of the first pieces of legislation before Congress. A situation where it would likely pass as making Obama a single term President would be a moot point.

As to your particular issue with it. It is just this simple hard economy or not, it is the right and moral thing to do. And the right and moral thing to do is seldom easy but is worth the reward.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I know this is a crazy comparison but here it goes.....

What about the child of say Bernard Madoff.....

Lets say this child was raised to a certain standard of living based off the money their parents stole in a crime. Lets say this crime went undetected for many years, long enough for the child to reach adulthood and benefit from a nice trust fund....lets say that this child has been living off the trust fund for 10 years with no job...lets say the parents who commited the crime get caught....They are sent to prison and all of their parnets money taken....

based off your argument that child should be allowed to still benefit off the money their parents stole just because they got used to the life their parents crime afforded them???

How is this example any different from what you are saying....Their parents stole from the American people and now just because their children are used to America they should be allowed to benefit from their parents crime?? Is that what you are saying??

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Ok, so what don't people understand about this?

It's not amnesty.

These immigrants came here with their parents, they didn't choose to cross the border illegally they were taken to the Untied States. They grew up here, went to school here, worked here.

They are just as American as you or any other who was actually born here if they were taken here as children.

The program only provides a temporary stay with work permits and ID's so that they may apply for the proper paths to citizenship without being deported. The problem with the current system without this new law is that most illegals who applied for citizenship were then deported from the country.

And there's a 465$ fee associated with the application, which ammounts to several hundred million dollars to pay for the program. Tax Payer money isn't being used.

~Tenth

Using this logic, the US government owes me a bunch of money. My parents were low-income, and it wasn't my fault. My life would have been easier had they at least been middle-income. Just checked my bank account. No big government deposit. Hmmm...

reply to post by GuidedKill

Lets say this child was raised to a certain standard of living based off the money their parents stole in a crime. Lets say this crime went undetected for many years, long enough for the child to reach adulthood and benefit from a nice trust fund....lets say that this child has been living off the trust fund for 10 years with no job...lets say the parents who commited the crime get caught....They are sent to prison and all of their parnets money taken....

That's not a valid comparison. You're not sending that kid to a country they've never really had any roots in, friends, perhaps family, social structure etc..

How is this example any different from what you are saying....Their parents stole from the American people and now just because their children are used to America they should be allowed to benefit from their parents crime?? Is that what you are saying??

God no, this is a straw man argument.

This comparsion isn't valid at all.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Ok, so what don't people understand about this?

It's not amnesty.

These immigrants came here with their parents, they didn't choose to cross the border illegally they were taken to the Untied States. They grew up here, went to school here, worked here.

They are just as American as you or any other who was actually born here if they were taken here as children.

The program only provides a temporary stay with work permits and ID's so that they may apply for the proper paths to citizenship without being deported. The problem with the current system without this new law is that most illegals who applied for citizenship were then deported from the country.

And there's a 465$ fee associated with the application, which ammounts to several hundred million dollars to pay for the program. Tax Payer money isn't being used.

~Tenth

Which just shows that as a parent, these children's parents took advantage of the system and the parents need to take responsibility for what their actions do to their kids. To force society to make accomodations is not the answer.
Rewarding illegal behavior with accomodations is so not the answer.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by TrueAmerican

 

I didn't call you a racist, I don't know why you are all upset.

Jan Brewer's behavior has indicated that she makes policy based on race and skin color.

That's racist. I'm sorry, but just because you don't want it to be true does not make it so. Furthermore, she has NO interest in resolving the illegal immigration problem via paths to citizenship.

You can't argue that fact. She wants to deport ALL illegalss, period.

'An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation nor does truth become error because nobody sees it.'

~Tenth

No sorry, her policy is based on having to enforce the law at the State level because team Obama refuses to do it at the Federal level. Team Obama is trying to make an end run around law instead. Team Obama can still allow more entry visas and grant citizenship to more people who did everything legal and apply for citizenship the normal route if they want. Why make it easier for people to sneak over the border and get work permits and drivers licenses?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by beezzer

 

I just don't think Jan Brewer is doing the right thing overall for her state.

She hasn't solved the problem with her radical policy.

Maybe she hasn't solved the problem but if it makes it harder for illegals in Arizona maybe they'll go to another state. I live in AZ and it is a major drain on taxpayer money.
Good for her!!!!

If you have state issued identification, you can register to vote.

Do you really want to allow the children of illegal aliens, who are not citizens to vote?

The situation with these children/young adults is tragic. However, a line must be drawn somewhere. Governor Brewer's decision to withhold driver's licenses and state funded assistance is appropriate.