DHS places new order for 750 million rounds, page 3

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 16 times

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:34 PM by Oannes

Who are all these rounds for anyway? This country is slipping.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:35 PM by milkyway12

reply to post by Oannes

Please go to the top of the second page and read that. It may open your eyes a bit. Dont know if you read it or not.

2nd.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:35 PM by Nucleardiver

Originally posted by CALGARIAN

Originally posted by getreadyalreadyThe military will side with the uprising after a few weeks when they realize the government is corrupt.

I don't think so, Tim.

If the go back on their squad/command/government, say bye-bye to their pay-cheque. Times are tough and no one is going to want to lose their job.

Actually I have to disagree with you. I know plenty of active military and being exmilitary myself let me share a perspective with you. Its basically the "6 degrees of seperation" idea. You see every military member has family and they don't want a unit of armed soldiers showing up at their family's home and they are nit going to be willing to do it to members of their service members families. American soldiers are not mindless killing machines or tyrants.

You also mention losing a paycheck if they don't follow the orders. Well if the US is in actual civil war then that means everything has collapsed, the economy, banking, food supplies, etc so exactly what good will a paycheck be? At the point in which America collapses into full scale civil war commodities and goods will be the currency of choice. Also I believe that most military personell would want to be with their families and protecting them from the onslaught of tyrannical orders.

Just my 2¢

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:35 PM by CosmicCitizen

reply to post by Oannes

It is kind of like a crooked poker game....if you have to ask who the mark is,,,,then it is you.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:36 PM by getreadyalready

reply to post by seeker1963

Yes, they are live rounds, and they could be used for anything.

These days, a lot of ranges are going with "lead-free" requirements, so that is why they make the distinction. The "leaded" rounds are cheaper than than the lead-free versions.

This advertisement is for vendors, so it is worded in a way so that vendors can make bids for the contract and give an accurate, and hopefully low price.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:38 PM by SpaDe_

reply to post by seeker1963

Yes, they could be used for more than just training. Leaded projectiles are still widely available and widely used.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:39 PM by palg1

Originally posted by getreadyalready
Somewhere above 220,000 employees fall under the purview of DHS. Some are going to be support and admin of course, but a billion rounds is only about 4,000 rounds per employee. (corrected math)

Say only 25% of the employee force has to qualify with weapons, that is still 60,000 people. 50 rounds of practice per year per person, and about 10 in a magazine to carry on duty, and you have a need for 600,000 hollow points, and 3 million practice rounds each year. Hopefully the ones that really are in the mix are shooting a lot more than 50 rounds of training per year, so the numbers published seem just about right.

I agree with this statement. I used to be in charge of the magasine for a training coy. It was very common to issue 10000 or more rounds of ammo for a range day for 40 soldiers. At the end of the day that was 250 rounds each in various calibers, and these units were always on the range for a week at a time. Do the math. Oh, and never mind the mortars, rockets, etc...

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:39 PM by CosmicCitizen

reply to post by Nucleardiver

Some will follow orders under the "color of law" and peer pressure. Some will not and where some refuse to follow orders the peer pressure may work the other way also (and whole units walk off). TPTB have been doing surveys and studies of who will follow orders to fire on and kill us citizens since the 1990s. Plan B is to bring in foreign troops to do the job (they will follow orders and some will even go rogue and kill civilians without being ordered to do so).

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:40 PM by seeker1963

reply to post by getreadyalready

Yes, they are live rounds, and they could be used for anything.

These days, a lot of ranges are going with "lead-free" requirements, so that is why they make the distinction. The "leaded" rounds are cheaper than than the lead-free versions.

This advertisement is for vendors, so it is worded in a way so that vendors can make bids for the contract and give an accurate, and hopefully low price.

Thanks! So I guess we debunked the claim that these rounds were strictly being purchased for use in target practice then? I mean I actually didn't believe it at first, but then I started to see the terms in HLS paperwork and that is what got me curious as to what exactly was going on. Now I know for sure, that they are not only exclusive for the use of target practice only!

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:43 PM by CosmicCitizen

reply to post by seeker1963

Maybe they will stage something like Katrina (with gun confiscation) and use the rounds for "training" to stop, search and shoot citizens, if necessary.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:44 PM by Aliensun

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

Since hollow point bullets are ruled by the Geneva Convention to be illegal for national warfare could we not get one of our decent Congressmen/women to sorta second that motion for the US citizenry? After, as has been pointed out (pun not intended) why else would they want such ammo? You pay extra for hollow point bullets and they are not necessary for their doing qualifying target practice.

So let's put a stop to this outrageous act. Let's call the responsible person or persons to Congress and have them explain their thinking on this matter.

Oh, wait, that would be a big waste of time. What has those Congressional inquiries every done that worked fully and honestly for the public's interest? (Banking, Wall Street, Fast and Furious, unjust wars, fiscal responsibility, etc.)

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:47 PM by miniatus

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by Nucleardiver

Some will follow orders under the "color of law" and peer pressure. Some will not and where some refuse to follow orders the peer pressure may work the other way also (and whole units walk off). TPTB have been doing surveys and studies of who will follow orders to fire on and kill us citizens since the 1990s. Plan B is to bring in foreign troops to do the job (they will follow orders and some will even go rogue and kill civilians without being ordered to do so).

I think those people who would actually consider firing on the civilian population would be the vast minority and their peers would be of more rational/moral thought.. so hopefully peer pressure WOULD win in that case because the majority of the peers would be against such a horrible thing.

Bring in foreign troops to attack your own population and you will absolutely see an uprising by your domestic military in defense of the population when it comes to the USA, I'm pretty confident of that.. and they are simply not going to win on our home turf..

edit on 8/13/2012 by miniatus because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:49 PM by CosmicCitizen

reply to post by Aliensun

Excellent point! Someone needs to sponsor a bill that places the restrictions of the Geneva Convention on the federal government for domestic law enforcement...after all it is a "war" on terrorism and the GC applies to war. The .40 calibre is quite popular with Law Enforcement and it would be hard to ban HPs for state and local agencies but on the national level it is quite doable.

edit on 13-8-2012 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:53 PM by getreadyalready

reply to post by seeker1963

They're not "exclusive" to target practice, but that is likely what they'll be used for. They made a specific bid advertisement for the hollow points, so those are probably what they plan to use on duty. The bulk bid is probably for target practice, but I suppose if they run out of the others, they can use these as well.

Bullets are only good for 1-2 years of shelf-life. (Really, most people that store them correctly will use them for up to 20 years, but the government is the government, and they probably have a policy of replacing them at least every 2 years.) So, the only way this order is part of any grand conspiracy is if that event kicks off in the very near future, and the original advertisement is already a year old, so it doesn't appear to be kicking off any time soon.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 12:56 PM by getreadyalready

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by Aliensun

Excellent point! Someone needs to sponsor a bill that places the restrictions of the Geneva Convention on the federal government for domestic law enforcement...after all it is a "war" on terrorism and the GC applies to war. The .40 calibre is quite popular with Law Enforcement and it would be hard to ban HPs for state and local agencies but on the national level it is quite doable.

edit on 13-8-2012 by CosmicCitizen because: (no reason given)

Hollow Points are MUCH SAFER than the practice rounds. Sure, they cause more damage to the intended target, but if someone fires a firearm at someone else, they already intend to kill them, so the damage isn't really a significant point. What is significant is the innocent bystanders around the firefight. A hollow point is much less likely to pass through the target and hit someone else, and it is much less likely to ricochet and stay intact to cause significant damage. It is also extremely unlikely to penetrate a wall and stay intact and hit an unintended target in another room.

There is no way anyone with gun knowledge would support banning hollow point weapons in domestic type settings. It would make situations and training for LEOs entirely different.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 01:06 PM by CosmicCitizen

reply to post by getreadyalready

I understand that but in wartime you do intend to kill the enemy and yet they are still banned. In a domestic LE situation if I was an innocent bystander I would rather have a FMJ pass thru my leg than be hit with a HP and lose my leg.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 01:10 PM by getreadyalready

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

What if you're safely on your porch as something happens out on the street. Bullets start flying, and the FMJ rounds are bouncing off the windshield and hood of the car and peppering your house, while the hollow points are breaking up as soon as they hit something and not causing any significant danger to you?

I think it is preferable to not get shot at all, rather than to have to choose which one might hurt you more. The idea is to not have any unintended targets.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 01:12 PM by InfiniteConsciousness

I can absolutely vouch that they've already received their shipment of Centerfire Ammunition at the facility they have which shares a dock with them (and many other corporations). I work at their Chicagoland installation (it's a large corporate park) and witnessed 3 pallets with what looked like about 50,000 rounds of Centerfire Ammunition (could have been more). I didn't look very closely at the type of ammunition or how much was contained in each box. All I know is it was a lot of rounds.

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 01:28 PM by Neocrusader

I'm running on a bad connection at the moment so can't post links but.......
I emplore someone to spend 5-10 mins looking into WHO HAS RECENTLY bought up most major arms and ammunition manufacturers in the US
Some very familiar names !
Connect those dots folks

If memory serves Soros is one - made his perchase a few months back

edit on 13-8-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added

reply posted on 13-8-2012 @ 01:42 PM by SrWingCommander

Originally posted by Neocrusader
I'm running on a bad connection at the moment so can't post links but.......
I emplore someone to spend 5-10 mins looking into WHO HAS RECENTLY bought up most major arms and ammunition manufacturers in the US
Some very familiar names !
Connect those dots folks

If memory serves Soros is one - made his perchase a few months back
edit on 13-8-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added

Soros is buying ammo and weapons manufacturers....THAT might be one of the scariest things that I have read on ATS.