It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by troubleshooter
reply to post by DCLXVI
You assume there is 'time' in eternity by using the word 'wait'...
...nothing 'waits' in eternity ... everything is present at once.
Originally posted by Glass
Originally posted by DCLXVI
Our premise is that God created the Universe starting with the Big Bang and then followed cosmological evolution that eventually lead to biological evolution and to humans.
We assume that the universe began because our mortal lives have a beginning. We assume that time is linear because we percieve time in a linear order. We assume the universe will eventually end because we are aware of our mortality.
What if I told you that there was no beginning and there will be no end, and that our universe has been expanding and contracting for eternity? This would imply that there was a beginning to our current cycle of the universe, the Nth iteration which "currently" exists, and that this cycle will eventually end, but also that before and after this cycle there have been an infinite number of other cycles of expansion and contraction...
But that falls outside of the scope of your question
God being eternal WAS for an eternity before the creation of the Universe. This means that at the moment of Creation he had BEEN for an eternity. Why wait an eternity? what was he doing?
Its hard for me to go back to this way of thinking; the idea that there was an eternity of "nothingness" before the universe was created. However it makes sense to me that "before" the universe existed that space and time did not exist, at least not as we know it...both are properties of this universe. I find it plausible that, if the universe hasn't existed in an eternal cycle, then the universe may have been created within a higher universe, or by interactions of other universes, and that time and space existed before, outside of this universe...but this is purely speculative stuff. In any case, no matter how many levels of existence there are I'm quite certain that it's all contained within a higher mind.
Anyway, I want to talk about time...
Here is a graphical representation using ASCII characters to show how we percieve the flow of time:
Fairly simple. From an objective linear standpoint all things can be seen to have a beginning and an end and all events in between. The present moment progresses from the beginning to the end of the event, one moment at a time:
Moment 1, 2, 3... Final moment
But what if we remove time from the equation? Try to imagine all the moments within an event happening at once.
For example, imagine yourself swatting a mosquito.
The initial moment would be the moment at which you notice the mosquito.
Then you bring your hand to a raised position to initiate the swatting motion.
Then you bring your hand down.
Your hand makes contact and crushes the mosquito.
In this event there are an innumerable amount of instantaneous moments, each one differing almost immeasurably from the last.
Try to imagine what it would look like if you superimpose each moment in this event into the space of one moment.
Your arm would be like a blur beginning at its original position and ending on top of the mosquito.
Now take this principle and imagine the entire universe, from beginning to end, superimposed as one moment.
This is what I imagine:
But that is only because my perception is limited to the mortal senses. We see only light through our eyes. Try to imagine being able to see the universe as one moment with perfect piercing clarity, down to each individual particle and its motion and being able to differentiate between particles and their motions...truly mind blowing stuff.
Understanding this is one of the keys to understanding the nature of God. Without time there is no before and no after, no beginning and no end.
Originally posted by charles1952
Perhaps there was no time before the creation, at least as we know time.
Originally posted by TimesUp
Do you want to talk to the Gods?
Originally posted by wash777
Very interesting question OP, I have no answer for, but thank you for giving me something interesting to think about! I guess I lean toward the multiple creations theory. God has probably watched more than one creation destroy itself. Just guessing.
In Eternity there is no time
Originally posted by FractalChaos13242017
reply to post by r2d246
I guess I see how that kinda addresses what's going on here...
But cmon, you posted an entire section of scripture that is about an enemy of Israel... more propaganda for despotism... and just to toss this in there... The whole space reference, such as Pleiades and Orion and the cubs and what not has to do with agriculture.
Leviathan is an interesting figure or character(anthropomorphism?)...
I'm still on the fence about what the references of Leviathan truly represent... so if you have any information that would be cool.
I guess it matters who's version is being referenced...
Anyways... back to the main reason for my reply. What you presented isn't really addressing the question... at least this is my understanding of it...
I could be wrong, so let me know and explain it further, rather than just posting a wall of text.
And if we die without knowing him there's hell to pay.
Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by DCLXVI
What a wonderful question. While none can completely understand God, in my humble opinion, we can understand consciousness, which we all have. What were we before we became self aware and what are we now. I start with the understanding that we are emotions and not thoughts, thoughts require symbols. Helen Keller had no language when she was young and not "thoughts" as we would define them; but, she had emotional experiences that changed over time.
Perhaps God is the totality of all emotional experience in the universe, all that exists. It is my belief that he simply was a series of emotional experiences that found language, a way for describing to himself what he was. In the Old Testament he gives his name, I Am. A simple recognition that there was a self awareness and that it had meaning. While I do preach as a Christian, I view God as bigger than I can ever understand completely. A self aware being that knows all that can be known today; but, is capable of knowing more in the same way that the universe is capable of expanding.
We exist, we are self aware, this cannot be by accident and cannot be created nor destroyed, it simply is. How do we deal with it. The same truth exists for God, he is and must find a solution to the question of eternity. How does one exist for eternity and not live in hell because of boredom? We cannot even imagine eternity, it is too much for humans; but, God must address the question and I believe he did. He created us and let us define ourselves, no stasis; but, instead, constant self determination.
This is not gnostic thinking, it is Christian and most don't bother asking the hard questions about what and who God is; but, if we are honest, we must ask the eternity question. The difference between heaven and hell is the difference between being alone for eternity and choosing to interact with other self aware beings. Now here is a question for you to consider. The gnostics and New Age believers (and others) believe we return to being God, that we are all one and the same. Would that answer the eternity question, I don't believe it would.
The options for answering eternity without eternal hell, without eternal solitary confinement. In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word was God and God means "I Am". He didn't wait to create eternity, it was and he didn't wait to create the universe, it was, it was him, all that existed and he allowed us to be part of it, hope. Not hope for no pain, we started from one, we started from solitary confinement and found a solution that reduced sorrow, it did not eliminate it, sorrow is and hope is also.
Before God created us, he was learning about himself and our lives are about learning about ourselves. That is my answer. Peace.