Six Arguments for the Elimination of Capitalism

reply to post by KillerQueen

5. Anti-democratic – democracies are corruptible: wealth can purchase most of the representation it needs to get the laws necessary for further accumulation and concentration of wealth. This means that as the concentration of wealth increases, democracy is degraded and ultimately destroyed.

Then the real question becomes how do you define 'wealth'? The follow up question is how do you distribute it fairly? Because we only have a short time here. Each person, in free circumstances, is allowed to define what is 'wealth' for themselves, as an individual and for the whole.

What is wealth anyway? Stocks and bonds? Big bank accounts? Real estate? A standing army?
Or is wealth better described in terms of individual lifetime achievement and satisfaction?

BTW, KillerQueen, I am for the elimination of capitalism and all economic isms, except globalism.

Hate the cheaters not the game.

Originally posted by bjax9er
so which ISM do you propose we replace it with?

the one where government controls EVERYTHING?

free market capitalism is the most compassionate system to ever exist.

What, are you an elite? Compassionate?

I guess we might aswell just live with it huh? Let our kids try to fix the mess. Pass the buck.

reply to post by KillerQueen


wow, this is getting tiresome, and ridiculous... Why is it that people want to "destroy Capitalism" when there are nations already where people are not able to use capitalism to better themselves?...

Without Capitalism we wouldn't be here as it is... Millions if not Billions of people have been able to better their lives because of Capitalism...

There are some people who loan money for small businesses in third world countries where people can better themselves and give jobs to other poor people were no jobs existed...

Of course Capitalism is anti-democratic... Democracy means MAYORITY RULE, which is dictatorship of the mayority in which the mayority can take away the rights of minorities...

Iraq, under Saddam was a Democracy, and they went after minorities such as Kurds, harrassing and murdering thousands of these people because of DEMOCRACY aka MOB RULE...

I'd like to see how many of you fools would praise capitalism if you lived in Africa digging out diamonds for rich people. And no, that's not an attack on rich people, you dumb Establishment cronies, it's a reflection on the fact that capitalism is not good enough. So long as imbalance and inequality exists, so will war and crime. And so long as war and crime exists, we are f#cked. And don't blame the warlords and evil people for enslaving diamond-diggers, blame consumerism for creating such a violent need for a resource that the only way to meet humanity's demand for the product fast enough to appease them was to enslave other human beings.

You people seem to have no depth; you're shallow machines who have become corrupted by greed and a distorted sense of entitlement to materialism so badly that you cannot see the bars that you've built around yourself and our society, and in fact, will defend them to your death should anyone try to rattle them.

You're living in a cage of illusions guys, you're not free, you're not wealthy, you're only what you're allowed to be by the environment you grow up in and the toes you're willing to step on. Sure, that may be how the food chain works, but does that mean that it's how we must work? Attacking each other unnecessarily so that we can have things? Is that really natural?

All animals are created with certain evolutionary elements to enhance their chances of survival and protection of themselves and their families. Humans were given a high-powered rational brain, because without it, we'd be totally and utterly f#cked. Yet, ironically, using that same brain, we chose to ignore our own rationality. Maybe the horrible truth is that we don't deserve to be saved. Maybe our fate really is to rape and pillage the Earth in a consumerist frenzy until it shrivels up around us and dies because people were so afraid of communism, for some bizarre and outlandish reason, that they could not take their eye off capitalism for even a second to consider some alternative.

If that's the case, well done, humanity. The smartest creatures of the planet are also the dumbest. What an 'oxymoronic' dichotomy.

I'd like to say oh well, we gave it our best shot, but the sad point of the matter is we didn't even try.

reply to post by TheAnarchist


That is not "Capitalism"... A lot of what happens in Africa is ETHNIC DIFFERENCES which lead to war, and atrocities between difference groups...

In different countries in Africa there are WARLORDS who attack, and use other ethnic groups for whatever goals they have in mind such as in Rwanda...

There are also places in which Islamic extremists have been murdering and displacing millions of people for decades such as in Sudan...

What happens there HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CAPITALISM...

Again, if you are going to discuss a topic LEARN ABOUT THE TOPIC YOU ARE WRITTING ABOUT instead of just spewing ignorance left and right...

reply to post by KillerQueen


That form of corporation uses capitalism otherwise they wouldn't be making billions of dollars a year...

Leftwingers love to call the Mondragon CORPORATION as a cooperative but it isn't.


If the Mondragon corporation existed under socialism the people wouldn't be able to own part of the company, despite the claims from the new socialists.

Under socialism/communism NO ONE can own anything. Only under Capitalism can people own a piece of a company, even the one they work in.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by TheAnarchist

 

That is not "Capitalism"... A lot of what happens in Africa is ETHNIC DIFFERENCES which lead to war, and atrocities between difference groups...

In different countries in Africa there are WARLORDS who attack, and use other ethnic groups for whatever goals they have in mind such as in Rwanda...

There are also places in which Islamic extremists have been murdering and displacing millions of people for decades such as in Sudan...

What happens there HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CAPITALISM...

Again, if you are going to discuss a topic LEARN ABOUT THE TOPIC YOU ARE WRITTING ABOUT instead of just spewing ignorance left and right...

The diamonds are a non-issue, they're merely an example of inequality permanently inherent in the System. What about sweatshops and other forms of slavery, etc. etc etc.? Capitalism creates inequality because profits are put before people. This would probably be inherent in any profit-driven consumerist economy, and my point is, we need to move away from consumerism's obsession over quantity and more towards quality again, and maybe, just maybe, rethink how we should operate as a planet-wide community.

Capitalism and the system of excessive competition and ridiculously high demand for production turnover isn't going to work for too much longer. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're not in the 19th century anymore, and we're running out of sh#t. Oil, trees, water, land, etc., it's all gonna go one day. Just because you won't be alive to see it happen is no valid excuse to leave a barren world to your children.

When will all disease be cured? Never, because pharmaceutical corporations depend on sickness. When will we move off finite sources of energy, like fossil fuels, and start using the plentiful sources of free natural non-polluting energy? Never, because of the insane amount of profit that is made by keeping us all hooked on oil - you can't sell free energy, right? When will humanity live in peace? Never, because there is no profit in peace. My only argument is that Capitalism is flawed, which you would have to be a deaf and blind fool to disagree with, and I think we can do better.

Capitalism is going to break down whether we like it or not. It's the natural evolutionary course of human economics on a planet where resources are finite and technology is replacing human labor. Imagine in another fifty years, assuming we make it that far, how many more jobs will become automated? Where are all these people going to work for a living? The class divide will increase and the System will inevitably collapse and our corporate-government overlords will resort to fascism to maintain control.

Capitalism's solution is: wipe out the overpopulation of humans with genocide and war.
My solution is: the world is only as overpopulated as we make it: let's come up with a new system that can sustain everyone's needs, rather than repeating the same mistakes. We're human beings for christ's sake, not commodities, and we're smarter than this. Continuing in this manner is assured systemic suicide. Bailing out banks and creating more consumer goods won't prevent it. We need to re-think everything, including, and especially, our dependence on capitalism.

Oh, and I've learned about the topic I'm writing about. I f#cking live in it, mate. Don't condescend on me in capital letters with a weak argument and then call me ignorant just because you disagree with my opinion.

P.S. - nowhere did I say we should change to communism or socialism.

Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank.

Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

Originally posted by Xaphan
Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank.

Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.

fractional reserve banking has nothing to do with capitalism, it is but a tool forced upon the unknowing people which would exist with or without capitalism.

You can complain about capitalism all you want, if you want to CURE capitalism get rid of humans. That is your answer. Any system you put in its place will more than likely be worse, and it too will also be abused be some "rich" or "powerful entites". I laugh whenever I hear someone blame wars or poverty on something like a political/economic structure, or religion. Sure they play a part, but poverty and wars will always be present, it is human nature, to eliminate those problems means we(humans) are no longer on the planet.

With that said, capitalism is one of the greatest successes of the modern world. Capitalism cannot(or should not) take the blame for political corruption.(your real problem) If your car has a flat, you do not replace the car, do you? Capitalism may have more than a flat right now, but it is still the best car on the road, and within repair.

Anything we need to fix capitalism can be found in the constitution. The founders knew we would eventually end up here, as they were all too aware of human nature. The further we let our corrupt leaders guide us away from the constitution the closer we come to the fate of most empires. Capitalism is not a problem, the people running the country are.

Let's remove the capitalism vs. socialism vs. communism vs. fascism vs. any other 'ism you can come up with and get right to the point about this thing we call our life. I only have 1 item worth value, and that is my time. I trade my time for goods and services. Anyone wishing to take anything that I have traded my time for, is in essence, stealing my life. I take great offense to that and despise those that think they have a right to my life.

This includes the confiscation of my time, as money, to perpetrate harm on humanity in the wars that are raging over our little dust ball called Earth. At the end of the day, the common man, the man with a family he is trying to feed, protect, shelter, cares little for these wars and the common man in North America has more in common with the common man in Asia, or Africa or Europe than he does with his elected leaders.

I also get the "social contract" BS thrown in my face a lot when I state that there should be no taxes and no theft of my life. I have never signed such a contract nor consented to it, but I am bound by it because of where I was born? I, and my children and perhaps their children, are now indebted to obligations assumed on my behalf by people I have never met, much less entrusted with proxy power.

Centralization of power does not work, it removes our leaders too far from those governed and does not allow us to hold them accountable.

At the end of the day, I'm 100% behind any economic/sociopolitical 'ism that recognizes that time is my only asset on this planet and does not seek to take it from my under the cover of night. And we, as the human race, need to quickly figure out how to make this un-yet-discovered 'ism apply to the whole of humanity and severely punish anyone that seeks to violate this most natural of human contracts.

reply to post by TheAnarchist


Wow, so now "the diamonds are a non-issue"...

BTW, where do the MAYORITY of sweat shops occur?...

In SOCIALIST India...

In SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST China, etc...

The MAYORITY of such sweat shops occur under SOCIALIST/COMMUNIST systems... not because of Capitalism...

BTW, you are really poorly informed... Eugenics has ALWAYS been a science of LEFTWING POLITICS...

Capitalism DOESN'T spouse "eugenics"...

For example, Obama's Czar John Holdren has always been an advocate of eugenics, and if you look at who is implementing and trying to spread depopulation schemes it is RICH LEFTWINGERS...

Originally posted by Finalized
Let's remove the capitalism vs. socialism vs. communism vs. fascism vs. any other 'ism you can come up with and get right to the point about this thing we call our life. I only have 1 item worth value, and that is my time. I trade my time for goods and services. Anyone wishing to take anything that I have traded my time for, is in essence, stealing my life. I take great offense to that and despise those that think they have a right to my life.
...

That is in fact Capitalism.

A lot of people have forgotten that under real/original Capitalism, not Corpocracy, person A sells goods and or services to person B which benefit not only person A and B, but person C.

Under a true FREE MARKET/Capitalism, everyone with the willingness to do so thrives and everyone participating benefits.

Then, when people have MORE than the bare essentials for their families, can they have the ability to help those in need.

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Yes, I know, it's the truest form of capitalism, not the crap corporatism we have now. If everyone understood that, we wouldn't be having this argument except with the ones with the looter mentality.

Originally posted by Cassius666
Hate the cheaters not the game.

(I'm not directing this at you personally Cassius666. I'm directing this at the attitude that you have... that capitalism is just a game.)

This is not game. Not even in the slightest.

Richard Nixon cheated on his taxes. This is definitely not a game.

Do you know what Richard Nixon did after he lost the presidential election in 1960 and then lost the gubernatorial election in California 1962? He went straight to New York City and he worked for a law firm.

Do you know what Nixon's law firm specialized in? Protecting the assets of wealthy clients. Yup. And he was elected president in 1968 after he killed RFK in his home state of California. See the connection? Capitalism isn't an economic system... it's a fake system with fake written all over it.

Do not pretend that capitalism is a game because that is an insult to every working man & woman in America. (No, it is an insult to everyone in the world.)

All the economic sub-systems of the world are fake, like Nixon. The only real wealth in the world is freedom. And that is a substance that is inherently difficult to quantify.

I cannot believe they deleted my post.




I will repost what I can remember, and try to be as unoffensive as possible here....(wow).


My grandfather came to California as a farmboy from Oregon with no money in his pockets. He died and owned 18 restaurants, his own private jet, motorcycles, cars, a gigantic house, and a huge and beautiful family.

He did it by working hard. He did it by saving his money and NOT starting a family until he was financially ready. You know what that means? I will try to be as ungraphic as possible, so I will just say he was not promiscuous. He kept to working and being a hardworker. Eventually he saved up enough money to open up his own ICE shop...ICE. He got his start to everything he owned by selling ice. He worked hard and didnt expect anything from anyone.


To the guy who posted about this country not having any opportunities, when you have an attitude like yours, that the world owes you something, and you create delusions in your head as to why you are unemployed and not your work ethic, of course you will get nowhere.


If you had the attitude of my grandfather, a hardworking american, you could accomplish whatever you wanted.


I hope at least 10 people read this until the commie mods take this off. Whoever really runs this site has an Agenda.

reply to post by Semicollegiate


System's become corrupt when you add in the human element (in our present state) which makes them worse because of that added element... Centralized or not centralized, on paper all systems could work until you apply people (with poor emotional intelligence) into the equation. You will see manipulation and warping of that system in some form. That said I have yet to see why capitalism is the one all be all economic model when its application, and subsequent warping, has led to such a troubling times. Or are you saying that we are not in a capitalist world currently? And if not what economic system do you feel we are currently participating in?

IMHO a new economic system needs to be created which takes into account our emotional frailties and flaws to promote more empathic responses to others. I fail to see how capitalism by its nature does this.

I will preface this response by stating that I am operating under the presumption that the 'capitalism' the author is referring to is corporatism or state capitalism, since free market capitalism is currently non-existent on any noticeable scale in our world.

1. First off, I see no moral issue with wanting to make oneself better off - except if it is done at the expense of others. In corporatism, this is primarily done through the taxation of the masses for the benefit of the corporations and their bureaucratic cronies. I believe the core principle the author is referring to can more accurately be expressed as the elimination of competition through government force.

Secondly, I would like to know specifically what 'social concerns' the author is referring to. Society (because this abstract term is not well defined) has no concerns, individuals have concerns (and share some with others). Despite the big words being used here, I don't think a point can be made until this is addressed.

2. There is a valid point to be made here. Short of interplanetary and intergalactic travel (which I believe is probably inevitable) there will very likely be a population cap on the human race. But this is true of any system, not just capitalism, where people are reproducing. Eliminating capitalism will not automatically solve this problem.

3. There is really no argument here at all. Capitalism has never started any wars, but I know quite a few governments that have. War is not a unique trait to capitalistic nations. It is, however, a unique trait to the State.

4. I would begin by asking the author what 'social equity' is, and - more importantly - who is to define it? For if there is one ideal model for social equity, then there must be some central authority to deduce what that model is. One must also not forget that other systems, such as Communism, simply substitute party status for money and lead invariably to the concentration of power in the hands of a few (money can buy power, but so can status).

5. This point begs the question. Why should there even be a system where a majority, or more commonly and 'outspoken minority' can force its will upon the rest of the individuals associated with that government? Is it really more morally acceptable to allow a portion of common citizens to use force to conform others to their will, as opposed to allowing a few of the wealthy do the same? We should all remember that slavery did not need small special interest groups to remain legal, it simply had the will of the majority to support it - enforced by the State of course.

6. To 'define' human happiness as being tied to a specific set of conditions is to trample on the individual. Happiness is whatever you as a free individual decide it is. It can be argued that food and shelter are necessary conditions for the possibility[/] of happiness, since one cannot be happy if he is dead, but beyond that any specified conditions are arbitrary.