Lucifer and the Masonic Lie of Theosophy

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
In this case, we are talking second hand smoke, but the idea is the same.

Only the truly religiously-mental would analogize second smoke with rape. Is that you Todd Akin?

We can't kill the rapist...

We certainly can and I think we should.

Are you frigging sick in the head to think the baby deserves death?

A zygote is not a baby. There are ways for the victim to terminate the pregnancy long before anything develops even remotely resembling a human fetus.

Neither the mother or the child have done anything wrong.

Yet we should punish the mother further by forcing her to birth an unwanted child resulting from rape.

Killing a baby makes the mother a murderer and the baby dead. If you can't see what's wrong with this, you are missing much of what ethics says about decency, justice and law.

The law allows this (terminating pregnancies resulting from rape) so I fail to see what law I am missing. And once again 8 cells does not a baby make.

Why is smoking the same? If that same father gives his children cancer from secondhand smoke, we would never consider killing the children because the cancer is a burden to the mother.

Again, this is possibly the most mentally retarded analogy I have ever seen. A child that develops cancer from second hand smoke is completely different then the byproduct of rape. A young girl, who has already been traumatized enough by the act of rape itself, is then forced to suffer further humilaiation and trauma by carrying the reminder of said act for nine-months because why? Because you think it is the same as smoking. Oh, wait. Second hand smoke.

The only person that should have the choice is the baby.

No one should be forced to to do anything against their will because you decided to interpret a book a certain way.

Give it a rest, Enochwasright. Go troll masons in a different forum.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Giving a woman choice is empowering her to carry the baby to term and allow her a safe environment to do this.

That is not a choice, that is a directive. A choice would be to either terminate the unwanted pregnancy resultant from rape or to carry it to term, all on the prospective mothers personal decision. Not some Bible-wielding fundementalists.

It is imbecilic viewpoints such as this that make me reconsider my prediliction to frequently voting Republican.

Let me ask you a question, if you had a daughter that was raped and she did not want to carry to term would you force her to have the child? I would not.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Let me ask you a question, if you had a daughter that was raped and she did not want to carry to term would you force her to have the child? I would not.

That's a mighty big "if" for reasons I won't expound upon.

I also find it telling that he tried to sidestep the increased likelihood of a child with genetic impairments if the rape was incestuous. Ah, what the heck! Let's populate the Earth willy-nilly 'til we're past its carrying capacity.

Fitz

reply to post by Fitzgibbon


I think we're past that point already, Bro. Disturbing, but true methinks.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
Giving a woman choice is empowering her to carry the baby to term and allow her a safe environment to do this.

That is not a choice, that is a directive. A choice would be to either terminate the unwanted pregnancy resultant from rape or to carry it to term, all on the prospective mothers personal decision. Not some Bible-wielding fundementalists.

It is imbecilic viewpoints such as this that make me reconsider my prediliction to frequently voting Republican.

Let me ask you a question, if you had a daughter that was raped and she did not want to carry to term would you force her to have the child? I would not.

Murder can never be a choice. Retribution for a crime by capital punishment is a different case all together. A baby is not guilty. 5.8% of all abortions are late-term, not counting the abortions that are not considered later-term, yet take the baby at a state that it is feels pain.

Although I do not have a daughter, depending on her age, the choice would not be hers to make. Legally, I could not stand in her way past 18. What I would do is empower her to carry the baby and raise it in a loving home, even if it was my own home. I could never condone the sin, yet I would always love the sinner. We are all sinners.

I don't condemn anyone who has an abortion. It's not my place. What I will not do is condone murder. Nothing about it is correct.

What was the baby trying to tell this mother. The baby depends solely on the mother, the one that is supposed to love the child. Call me all the names you want, murder is wrong, especially with a defenseless baby.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


You do realize you have turned your own thread into a derailed pile of crap, don't you?

Unseat yourself from the high horse you sit on. Realize that your opinion is just that, an opinion. As such, understand that you are not as righteous as you believe yourself to be. Then GTFO.

One more thing.

STOP BEING SUCH A PRICK.

Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

You do realize you have turned your own thread into a derailed pile of crap, don't you?

Unseat yourself from the high horse you sit on. Realize that your opinion is just that, an opinion. As such, understand that you are not as righteous as you believe yourself to be. Then GTFO.

One more thing.

STOP BEING SUCH A PRICK.

This thread never left the topic at hand. We are still firmly on topic. I am not righteous at all. None of us are. The point of being on the Island of Earth is not to demonstrate our righteous, but to find what was lost. We have none as a comparison to what we can gain. That's the entire reason we are here, yet others are here for far different reasons. Righteousness is not something you can take or earn through works or words. It's a matter of faith and removing the double mind, but the crown of righteousness is given, never fully deserved. That crown comes much later than now. Baptism is repentance, which is where we all are. It happens until you die. If you got nothing else from the movie Lost, remember this quote:

"The most important time in your life was the time you spent with these people. Nobody does it alone Jack. You needed all of them and they needed you. Jack says, "For what?" Father says, "To remember. Let go." What he was saying is, "Give it to God. He's not the bad guy. He was right there with you the whole time."

You should be thanking me and trying to remember. You'll never be able to say you weren't informed.

Since God the creator of the vast Universe must be Pro Life in your view Enoch and all lifeforms starting with as little as 8 cells are equally precious, you also by reasoning must be:
1. the strictest Vegan on the planet,
2. you also must advocate against capital punishment and
3. also be a pacifist putting all your efforts in speaking up against war.
Unfortunately all those pious and righteous Pro Lifers I have encountered do not give a damn about the three points I have mentioned here, on the contrary they will most probably tell you about Natural Order bla,bla bla
that proves that it is not about respect for life or God as Creator of Life but about controlling other peoples lives, mostly women and children in this case, and mind very well embryos are NOT children.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A baby is not guilty. 5.8% of all abortions are late-term, not counting the abortions that are not considered later-term, yet take the baby at a state that it is feels pain.

Stop changing the goal posts. We were not discussing late-term abortions (which I happen to be against) but terminating pregnancies resulting from rape at a very early stage when you can unequivocally not refer to the zygote (morula) is not even a fetus, let alone a baby.

Although I do not have a daughter, depending on her age, the choice would not be hers to make.

I am not talking about a woman who is over 18. If your daughter was under 18, was raped and carrying the child of the rapist and did not want to go to term, would you force her?

Call me all the names you want, murder is wrong, especially with a defenseless baby.

You can keep calling a small group of cells a 'baby', you might as well call it a creamsicle, they both are as equally qrong a descriptor.

Quotes, quotes, quotes.

Do you you ever have anything to say that wasn't written by someone else, Enochwasright?

Ahem... scuss me.

BUT! But the correct query would/could/should be...

"Enoch... are you ever going to consider the folks you love to entreat herein at ATS as people who do not need that particular kind of information?"

If you came... you came to chill, relax, and learn about SS. Not to define it the way others teach you.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A baby is not guilty. 5.8% of all abortions are late-term, not counting the abortions that are not considered later-term, yet take the baby at a state that it is feels pain.

Stop changing the goal posts. We were not discussing late-term abortions (which I happen to be against) but terminating pregnancies resulting from rape at a very early stage when you can unequivocally not refer to the zygote (morula) is not even a fetus, let alone a baby.

Although I do not have a daughter, depending on her age, the choice would not be hers to make.

I am not talking about a woman who is over 18. If your daughter was under 18, was raped and carrying the child of the rapist and did not want to go to term, would you force her?

Call me all the names you want, murder is wrong, especially with a defenseless baby.

You can keep calling a small group of cells a 'baby', you might as well call it a creamsicle, they both are as equally qrong a descriptor.

A baby can never be considered anything but a gift. The child belongs to the mother and this never changes. Once a woman is pregnant, they are a mother. Mothers are obligated to care for the life that is entrusted to them regardless of the circumstances. Ending the life leaves scars for a lifetime.

Yes to the 16 year old and a loving environment would ensure that a short 9 months period of life is endured. Bringing a new life into the world is a gift. No mother sees it any different after the baby is born. We teach our kids to take responsibility for their actions. In the case of rape, the hormonal pill (Morning After) keeps conception from happening. That is one option that avoids conception in the first place. If conception happens, in the case of rape, then a baby that possesses the four qualities of life, metabolism, growth, reaction to stimuli, and reproduction, is a human life engaged and unique to any other human on earth. The question of when a life begins with these qualities is not a question for a believer. God knew us before we were conceived. Seeing the world from a materialistic and purely scientific perspective misses the point entirely. From a spiritual standpoint, our own will to take does not reflect God's will to give. God is willing to give the life. Who are we to judge this baby's future as worthy, a good genetic mix or from an origin of worthy circumstances? Rape is evil. So is taking life. Two wrongs do not cancel the first.

The circumstances are of little concern compared to the future value of a human life to humanity. A person who believes that life cannot be sustained on this Earth is mistaken. The Earth can manage. The notion that a baby is a hardship only speaks to our value of life. The argument that resources are not available to care for the child is not a consideration. There are waiting lists for newborn babies from parents wanting to adopt. Plenty of aid could be available to mothers needing assistance if we were not diverting this to abortion mills. Plenty of churches are ready and willing to assist. No baby would make the choice to die. Life is a gift we should never take away.

meh--nevermind.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A baby can never be considered anything but a gift.

Oh really? I am sure every women would be thrilled to receive a 'gift-baby' through the act of rape.

Ending the life leaves scars for a lifetime.

While being forced to give brith would avoid all of them. Right?

Yes to the 16 year old and a loving environment would ensure that a short 9 months period of life is endured.

I still do not understand you. So is this a 'yes, I would force my underage daughter to have a child after she was raped even if she did not want to'? Yes or no?

Seeing the world from a materialistic and purely scientific perspective misses the point entirely.

I am seeing the empathic perspective from the point of a person who is raped and then does not want to carry to term because of that action despite what the ultra-relgious wackadoodles feel she should be doing.

Rape is evil. So is taking life. Two wrongs do not cancel the first.

Forcing someone to do something they do not want just because of your religious views is equally as wrong.

The notion that a baby is a hardship only speaks to our value of life.

This has nothing to do with hardship and everything to do about imposing your viewpoint on others.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
By now, I hope the moderators realize that no discussion of Theosophical Secret Societies can take place apart from using their own central book--The Bible. Please leave this in the proper forum of SS.

As you watch the video below, it will be necessary to read the first thread in this series of threads.

The first thread, Jimmy Neutron and the Third Eye Monkey, outlines the archetype word and message that is written into mankind's heart and mind. There is a central story that we all know and identify with. The law of inverse squares demonstrates that we can see the source of light clearly as we approach it. The screen that we use to see this light must be sufficiently broad by awareness to focus the image. As time draws to a conclusion, we are approaching this light to see the story in our hearts come to a conclusion.

Why is this thread relevant? The story in your heart is being manipulated with a lie. Why do you identify with the story that is common to all movies. Love overcomes evil and tyranny is trying to steal the love from you. This is the story you know. The lie that we can all see continues to use the same tactic as we have come to see from history. It's a type of false flag if you will, using the truth to perpetuate a lie that can be used for advantage. The liar creates a problem around the true solution. Instead of finding the solution, the liar makes the solution appear to be the one lying. Like Daddy Warbucks, the liar works both sides of the war, then makes themselves out to be the one with the solution. If you have read the first thread linked above, you will clearly see the lie being disseminated below by the handlers of secret societies. One thing is clear. They do not like God and his requirements for truth. The ONLY way they can disrupt this is to control the thoughts of mankind.

The following video is the lie of Theosophy. They take truth and wrap it in counterfeit. The counterfeit comes out as the video progresses. Slowly, they say that Lucifer is the true good guy and that God is the one that is messing with mankind. Masons are eventually taught this in their ritual. The central problem with this is the nature of the loving God and Father along with the first image of creation--the Son. Satan steals, kills and destroys. God honors, defends and protects those who cling to love and truth. Take these two threads together as a reflecting point to learn the method and lie of the deceiver as plainly seen by the truth in your heart.

In the end, we know them by their fruit. Follow the liars by their actions in this world. Who is responsible for dividing mankind and playing both sides of the wars for profit? Daddy Warbucks. We know who they are. They are the Moneychangers, High Priests of false religion and the Builders that reject the Son of God. They will do anything to control mankind and change God's plan for mankind. The video below outlines the lie they tell in bold clarity. He states it from the beginning. He is implying that YOU are really God. This is the same lie from the Garden when Satan told Eve that she could be LIKE God.

Remember to read the first thread in this series. Then, keep the main fact in mind: No counterfeit lie can enter the mind unless it is wrapped in some form of truth. You will see many truths in this video, but the main lie is the implications they draw through subtle deception. Your mind is geared with the true story written on the heart. You realize the story by hope for what is good rather than evil. Follow this common knowledge to see that the truth Jesus came to reveal is the actual truth. Do you know the true bring of light to mankind by his love and message? Yes. The manipulators can only use this truth with improper implication. This is the way they play both sides of truth to divide you against your own heart and the will of God for your ultimate good. If you love the lie, then you will likely be blinded from the truth in this thread.

If you want the correct version and key to understanding this video, listen to 2 Thessalonians 2.

edit on 4-8-2012 by EnochWasRight because: (no reason given)

is this the topic?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

I am seeing the empathic perspective from the point of a person who is raped and then does not want to carry to term because of that action despite what the ultra-relgious wackadoodles feel she should be doing.

You are approaching this from a selfish standpoint. What's in it for me is not ever the point. If you want a picture painted for you mentally and emotionally, the TV show Lost personifies us on the island here. The entire TV show was based on this concept that is known to very few people. The pretext to the movie is based on Chapter 58 of The Shepherd of Hermas, although I doubt this has ever been noticed by too many people. If you can go back a few chapters and read the parable of the vineyard and the master than entrusted the vineyard to the slave, you might just get the point of the TV show from episode 119 - 120 (Finale). If you get it, pay attention to what Jack's father (Christian Shepherd) tells him in the funeral home.

You think this is about you. From this, you project this to the mother that is raped. It's never been about us here in this place my friend. If you want to remember, you'll need to follow the same path off the island that the TV show reveals or you are doomed to repeat their mistakes over and over again. There are two types of fear. One fear is of the Lord and is not fear, but reverence for others, even when confronted with evil. This fear empowers the person possessing it and allows them to be filled. An empty woman that is raped would find healing from the baby. Her power is not in herself, it is in the next generation she brings forward (1 Timothy, 2).

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.

The circumstances God brings to our lives, much like our conversation here, will only be known when we remember why we are here. We have been baptized into this life and baptism is repentance. Each of us has a destiny. The sea can be rough, but the water is the thing that protects us. If you have read my threads, you know why (Amnion).

The other type of fear is the type that makes us afraid of the truth. This fear makes us powerless. When viewed in the mirror, we see why the humble person has the power, yet has great fear (For the Lord). The person who thinks they have power has no fear (for the Lord), yet has all the fear of dread from knowing truth but not acting on it.

Which fear is telling you to keep fighting the truth?

God said, "Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated." In the show LOST, Jacob was the one in white. Esau is the one in black, yet is never named in the show. His mother did not expect a 2nd baby and never named him. I'm only trying to help you remember. If you are created in an image, are you on this island? If you watch Lost, you'll know why this place matters for the place you actually are. A brother such as myself can only tell you why it is true.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
You are approaching this from a selfish standpoint.,,,You think this is about you. From this, you project this to the mother that is raped.

Unlike you I am not thinking about myself and imposing my religious views on others. I am thinking about the people you wish to impose you religious views on and how you desire to inflict your beliefs on their life despite them not sharing the same viewpoint as yourself. You television analogy interspersed with irrelevant scripture passages does ZERO to convince me of your viewpoint.

Since you do not seem to avoid answering direct questions I will ask you again; if you had an underage daughter that was rpaed and she did not want to carry the baby to term, would you force her? Yes or no?

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
A baby can never be considered anything but a gift. The child belongs to the mother and this never changes.

I feel the same way you do about this. But I also understand that not everyone does. Watch how I change one word in your above sentence and make it right for everyone.

"The choice belongs to the mother and this never changes."

And I firmly believe this because we have not seen what she has seen, or done what she has done. Therefore, we have no idea what influences her decision. It might be something we don't agree with, or it might change your whole outlook on the situation. But unless you assign some personal responsibility to the person, you will forever live in a nanny state and be told what to do and how to think. Unless thats how you like it.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
You are approaching this from a selfish standpoint.,,,You think this is about you. From this, you project this to the mother that is raped.

Unlike you I am not thinking about myself and imposing my religious views on others. I am thinking about the people you wish to impose you religious views on and how you desire to inflict your beliefs on their life despite them not sharing the same viewpoint as yourself. You television analogy interspersed with irrelevant scripture passages does ZERO to convince me of your viewpoint.

Since you do not seem to avoid answering direct questions I will ask you again; if you had an underage daughter that was rpaed and she did not want to carry the baby to term, would you force her? Yes or no?

edit on 24-8-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: Beverages 2:1 And the LORD said unto networkdude, yea, thou shalt have no beer, not now, not ever, for ye has sinned.

My answer was even quoted by you above. Here it is again.

Yes to the 16 year old and a loving environment would ensure that a short 9 months period of life is endured.

We would stand by each other and do the right thing. The new life would be welcomed and not shunned as if a new life was the problem in the situation. Teaching the value of standing up for truth, even in hard times, would be the right thing to do. We don't always choose our own circumstances. Bad things often happen in this world. Two wrongs never make a right.