New TV channel run exclusively by fully veiled women

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Those are straw man arguments.
Those cultures are no longer relevant for comparison in the 21st century.

Well at least one I mentioned, the sharia culture, is alive and kicking, and they shot up a lady at point blank range a few days ago. Yes, I agree that we live in the 21st century. Is it still straw man?

What about female genital mutilation in Africa (FGM)? That's 21st century for you. Should we just shrug and say "oh but this is customary in Africa, why worry?" Because that's the kinda thing you appear to be saying about hijab. Mind you, there is no formal law that says all women must undergo FGM. According to your logic, no one is forced to get sensitive parts of their privates chopped off. They do it out of utter respect for tradition. Right?

Most muslim women are not being forced to dress that way, or being forced to do much of anything. They want to, because they love their culture and respect where they came from.

Read up on hijab in Saudi Arabia. There are plenty of links, including the Wiki, which says "women are expected to wear hijab". No mention of patriotic love there.

Am I going to judge 1.57 billion people for making decisions about themselves that in no way affect my life?

FGM does not affect your life in any way, is it still OK to do?

We should not interfere with other peoples culture,thats my 2 cents

Sad that some places are going back to the Tenth Century.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Those are straw man arguments.
Those cultures are no longer relevant for comparison in the 21st century.

Well at least one I mentioned, the sharia culture, is alive and kicking, and they shot up a lady at point blank range a few days ago. Yes, I agree that we live in the 21st century. Is it still straw man?

What about female genital mutilation in Africa (FGM)? That's 21st century for you. Should we just shrug and say "oh but this is customary in Africa, why worry?" Because that's the kinda thing you appear to be saying about hijab. Mind you, there is no formal law that says all women must undergo FGM. According to your logic, no one is forced to get sensitive parts of their privates chopped off. They do it out of utter respect for tradition. Right?

Most muslim women are not being forced to dress that way, or being forced to do much of anything. They want to, because they love their culture and respect where they came from.

Read up on hijab in Saudi Arabia. There are plenty of links, including the Wiki, which says "women are expected to wear hijab". No mention of patriotic love there.

Am I going to judge 1.57 billion people for making decisions about themselves that in no way affect my life?

FGM does not affect your life in any way, is it still OK to do?

All these arguments are non sensical.

Women aren't DYING from wearing a Hijab. It's not causing them to be mutilated or in danger or anything else you've mentioned in your attempt to justify your invalid comparisons.

And yes they are culturally expected to wear it, this does not mean they are being forced. I'm culturally expected to be civil in Canada, doesn't mean I always am.

~Tenth

Burqas give me the creeps because I don't know if it's a man or a woman. You can't tell who's under those things period! Hijabs not a big deal. But burqas, at least in public, should be against the law!

Originally posted by fenceSitter
reply to post by nightbringr

 

You make it sound like Middle Eastern countries are the only ones suffering from violence against woman. Take this for one example:

Domestic Violence Resource Center

One in four women (25%) has experienced domestic violence in her lifetime.

Estimates range from 960,000 incidents of violence against a current or former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend to 3 million women who are physically abused by their husband or boyfriend per year.

Whether a woman is abused for not wearing a niqab, driving a car, cheating or just looking at another guy the wrong way, this is a global problem. You are centering out a specific society and condemning them without looking at our own society.

Until everyone looks at everyone else as equals these types of problems will persist.

Good point.
Rape affects almost 20% of US women, study says

Will there be undercover investigations?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Women aren't DYING from wearing a Hijab. It's not causing them to be mutilated or in danger or anything else you've mentioned in your attempt to justify your invalid comparisons.

I agree that if I had a choice between wearing a hijab and receiving a bullet to the head, I would choose the former. At the same time, have you tried covering your complete body including face in dark cloth in an ultra-hot climate? You really need to try this, buddy. Yup, they survive perfectly, even though this does seem unnatural for a human being.

And yes they are culturally expected to wear it, this does not mean they are being forced.

I don't think you are THAT naive, you must be grabbing straws. Imagine (shock! shudder!) that a few young women decided to do away with hijabs and cruise around the city with faces open and heads bare. Do you believe for a second that they would be allowed to do so? Really?

Further, do you know that a lady is not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia? Does this seem acceptable? Let's say she just wants to buy groceries or pick up her kids from school, but NO-O-O. Is that normal?

You seem to defend programming human beings into a robotic state where all this nonsense is just taken as God's word.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
All these arguments are non sensical.

Everything he said made sense.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Women aren't DYING from wearing a Hijab. It's not causing them to be mutilated or in danger or anything else you've mentioned in your attempt to justify your invalid comparisons.

Obviously you have no idea what goes on in Saudi Arabia. Educate yourself.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
And yes they are culturally expected to wear it, this does not mean they are being forced. I'm culturally expected to be civil in Canada, doesn't mean I always am.

When the culture jails or beats you for not doing it, its forcing.

Odd you didnt address the female circumcision issue.

A woman sentenced to 10 lashes for driving a car

Najla Hariri, one of the women facing charges, told Reuters: "They called me in for questioning on a charge of challenging the monarch on Sunday... I signed a pledge not to drive again, although my driving was a result of necessity not an act of defiance."

It's beyond me how one can defend such idiocy.

reply to post by buddhasystem

I agree that if I had a choice between wearing a hijab and receiving a bullet to the head, I would choose the former. At the same time, have you tried covering your complete body including face in dark cloth in an ultra-hot climate? You really need to try this, buddy. Yup, they survive perfectly, even though this does seem unnatural for a human being.

Again, I fail to see how this effects the cultural norm of Hijabs and burkas among the Muslim population?

I don't think you are THAT naive, you must be grabbing straws. Imagine (shock! shudder!) that a few young women decided to do away with hijabs and cruise around the city with faces open and heads bare. Do you believe for a second that they would be allowed to do so? Really?

Oh I never state it would be, some more conservative muslim nations/towns would crap their pants if this happened sure. Never said it would be right. I just don't think we have the right to judge an entire culture of people because our sensibilities are being offended.

I also don't agree with the practice in Korea of torturing animals before they are eaten. I don't dislike all Koreans for it however.

Further, do you know that a lady is not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia? Does this seem acceptable? Let's say she just wants to buy groceries or pick up her kids from school, but NO-O-O. Is that normal?

Saudi Arabia is probably one of the MOST back water nations in the world culturally. I really don't think we can apply their common approach to women's rights as a means to judge all Muslims. There are far more progressive muslim nations ( not liberal, just progressive) who are opening up to these ideas.

Let's remember that Christianity wasn't too fond of women until about 50 years ago, and even now it's kind of iffy in the church. Cultural changes take time, especially in opressive theocratic religions.

You seem to defend programming human beings into a robotic state where all this nonsense is just taken as God's word.

Nope, I defend people's rights to enjoy and live their culture as long as they aren't actually killing or hurting people.

The whole Hijab, Burka thing, isn't killing any women ( other than the extremists who are killing whoever anyway) so it's kind of a non issue in comparison to what else is out there.

~Tenth

reply to post by nightbringr


If you can tell me how the Female Circumcision comment was relevent to the current topic, then I will happily address it.

As for Saudi Arabia, I've been there, on multiple occasions and although I saw some REALLY messed up things while I was there, the vast majority of people I met were not different than you, or I.

And in private, wished deeply that the oppresive royal family would go away.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by nightbringr

 

If you can tell me how the Female Circumcision comment was relevent to the current topic, then I will happily address it.

Because it only occurs in Muslim countries and is brutal in the extreme. Women subjected to this can never know the joys or pleasures of sex. Typical of the misogyny in these cultures. Women will never cheat on their spouses, because there is no pleasure in sex, only pain. Why is the same not done to men?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
As for Saudi Arabia, I've been there, on multiple occasions and although I saw some REALLY messed up things while I was there, the vast majority of people I met were not different than you, or I.

How many women did you see out an about? Oh right, none. Because they are no better than housebound slaves.

reply to post by nightbringr

Because it only occurs in Muslim countries and is brutal in the extreme. Women subjected to this can never know the joys or pleasures of sex. Typical of the misogyny in these cultures. Women will never cheat on their spouses, because there is no pleasure in sex, only pain. Why is the same not done to men?

What? Females are only mutilated in Muslim Countries?

Sources should probably be looked at before making such statements.

And again, how is it relevant to the issue of an all veiled TV channel? How is the comparison of women covering up, equal to cutting their lady parts off?

How many women did you see out an about? Oh right, none. Because they are no better than housebound slaves.

Thousands. They don't hide them in their homes like the media would like you to believe.

You really need to take a good look at how you view the world and what information you believe when it's fed to you.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by hp1229

 

Who again is 'forcing' these women into a hijab?
Who again ,is making them, slaves? Have any of you ever met Muslim women? Spent any time in Muslim communities?

If you did, you'd know that they do it culturally and are HAPPY to do so. Just because WE think it's oppressive doesn't mean it is. I'm not saying that I agree with their culturalistic view of women, but I'm certainly not going to go on some diatribe accusing all Muslim men of being slave drivers and oppressionists.

That's a very very narrow minded view of 1.57 billion people and is mysandrist to the extreme.
~Tenth

Are you asking me questions on a personal level or the link that I posted? I couldn't care less what they wear or what they dont. However women dress conservatively or atleast used to in the old days. Our changing and evolving society is much different then the islamic societies. Are you speaking on behalf of all the women of islam? How do you know that they're happy to do so culturally?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by nightbringr

 

If you can tell me how the Female Circumcision comment was relevent to the current topic, then I will happily address it.

From the article in OP:

He describes as heretic the type of democratic system that allows women "to dress immodestly, work as dancers and even be members of Parliament." That's "pandemonium," he says.

What's relevant here? As I said, in both cases women are reduced to robots or slaves. So for a woman to have a position of responsibility and decision-making in the society is not normal for these people? Sheesh.

This is a Wiki article on FGM

It ensures pre-marital virginity and inhibits extra-marital sex, because it reduces women's libido. Women fear the pain of re-opening the vagina, and are afraid of being discovered if it is opened illicitly.

Wearing hijab is technically different from that barbaric practice, but what they share is this: both are based on fear, fear of social rejection and even pain (like in that punishment for driving cars, or in case of FGM the actual pain around the removed body parts).

reply to post by hp1229


Nope just general questions.

As for those cultures, I'd liek again to point out that we in the west only decided women were good enough to vote about 50 years ago.

Just because we are "that" much ahead of Islam isn't really that impressive. They will havetheir day of change and revolution eventually.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Show me a liberal Muslim Country. I've never seen one.

Gobble...Gobble...Turkey
TURKEY

Turkey is officially a secular state, and the hijab is banned in universities and public buildings – this includes libraries or government buildings. The ban was first in place during the 1980 military coup, but the law was strengthened more in 1997.[51] Over the years thousands of women have been arrested or prosecuted for refusing to take off the hijab or protesting against the ban, by the secular institution.

HIJAB

Hey on the bright side at least they are actually letting the women on tv. I say its at least a step in the right direction.

We have to wait and see what sort of material they cover on each show. What are the topics. Is it just a state run propaganda machine or is it something more akin to a arab version of "The Talk" or "Live! with Alimah!"

reply to post by hp1229


I stated above, progressive, not liberal.

They still hold many of the old laws in place, although they are less used.

Kudos to Turkey however for giving a model to other Islamic nations to follow.

~Tenth