Million jobless may face six months' unpaid work or have benefits stopped

Why hire someone when you can get workers for free.

I can't see companies taking advantage of this in anyway what so ever

Almost one million people will be forced to work unpaid for six months if a new government work scheme is extended across the country, a thinktank has said.

Under the Department for Work and Pensions community action programme (Cap), which has completed a pilot stage and whose rollout is expected to be announced this autumn, people on jobseeker's allowance for longer than three years must work for six months unpaid or have their benefits stripped from them.

Two weeks ago the employment minister, Chris Grayling, flagged his intention to introduce the scheme – recently renamed support for the very long-term unemployed – across the country to tackle the rising number of chronic unemployed, driven up by a stagnant economy.

There have been more than a few threads on training for work programs that have been
more that a expensive (for the tax payer) waste of time and with very little training.

Already there have been cases taken to court

During the case last month the court heard that Jamieson Wilson, from the Midlands, was expected to wash and clean furniture for an unnamed organisation for six months unpaid.

After refusing to take part in the "exploitative" scheme, Wilson, who trained and worked as a mechanical engineer and an HGV driver and has been unemployed since 2008, was stripped of his benefits and was now "relying on family and friends" to survive.

Guardian

I would'nt have a problem with work programes if they worked but the training is usually
nothing more that tasks that don't need any skills so what training is needed?.

With a pool of free labour what company going to employ staff even if there is work.
Remember this job vacancy for tesco on the direct gov website.

TESCO NIGHT SHIFT Vacancy from Jobcentre Plus Job No: BSD/27442 SOC Code: 0 Wage JSA+EXPENSES Hours TBC Location EAST ANGLIA IP32 Duration Permanent Date posted 09 February 2012 Pension details No details held

It was taken down quickly as the media started to report this job and the £0 wage

I took a look at the tesco site to check how many job's where in my area and the
results for swansea with a 10 mile radius was ......"There are 0 jobs relating to swansea"
and this is the biggest food retailer in the country.

Goverment programs like this just go to undermine the jobs market making getting a job
even harder.

hi op

This bastardo of a government wont be happy till were all dead
and if that means winding us all up to kill each other they will do it

My once beloved country in going down the pan quicker than a curry from the night before

My understanding is that there’s plenty of job’s out there that people aren’t qualified for.

I’m talking mainly about Financial Industries, like Banking, Accounting and Insurance. As someone who works within this field, I can tell you that there are so many jobs out there within this industry, but hardly enough people “qualified” to fill the position, and that’s because I believe employers set the bar to high for the available position, much higher than it needs to be. I know first hand that a lot of these positions can be trained out to most people, regardless of whether they’re a Business Degree graduate or not.

So I think it’s more of a case to train the unemployed in markets where there is a large amount of jobs open, because that’s more beneficial long term. And I imagine there’s plenty more industries with jobs available like Catering or Fitness, where there just isn’t anyone with the experience, but plenty with the capability if they had the correct training.

Open scheme’s where we can train the unemployed within Sectors that need people to work within them, that have those opportunities open, minimum wage or no wage, because with that specific training, they then have an entire market open to them, as oppose to just Tesco or Primark where career opportunities are next to nothing.

Because that’s what we’re looking for really, to put people within a career based position then opposed to just a part time at a local store because that won’t see a positive economic turnaround in the long term, in my opinion.

Originally posted by skuly
I can't see companies taking advantage of this in anyway what so ever

That's what happens when people are forced to buy their "human right" of survival anyway.

People should not be expected to work to "survive". Human rights like basic food, water and shelter should not be held to ransom to force people to serve the interests of others. If people want to live a simple life without luxuries, they should be able to do so without working. If you want luxuries, then you should work to support the industries that provide them.

This government is always coming up with a variety of schemes to stop unemployment benefits and to make people work for free while at the same time damaging job growth by cutting back on everything.
If they want people to work then hows about they stop stifling and destroying industries and businesses and actually work towards stimulating job growth?
It doesn't take a genius to figure out that doing huge budget cuts across the country is going to bring a rise in unemployment.
But hey, there are no jobs so it's your fault you haven't got one.

Something to think about:
The government cuts a load of jobs in a sector you are unfortunately working in, you find yourself unemployed, the government wants you to work for free doing the same job you'd just been doing before the government cut it.

Another thing to think about:
Companies sign up to this scheme and take on people for free who are working along side people who are being paid. The company soon realises that the more people they take on for free, the more money they save, and so they begin to cut the paid workers.

I had a job a couple of years ago that was a 6 month contract as a trainee technician which was funded by a government scheme which has now ended.
The whole idea was to train me up as a technician and after the 6 months the company could hire me and I would have a permanent job at the end of it.
But I soon found out it doesn't work like that. The company doesn't care about taking you on, it cares about free labour, so as soon as my 6 months were up they would get rid of me and take on someone else on this scheme and I spoke to people working there about this and they said they'd been doing this for years and never intend to employ anyone. Their training sucked btw.

reply to post by NuclearPaul


such is the old way, you move to the city for those things and stay in the country if you have no need, now it seems even the country is a city.

This is NOT my opinion but there are plenty of self-righteous obnoxious people out there who think everyone on the dole are just a pack of useless dole bludgers too lazy to get off their ass and get a job, and that working for the benefits is the bare minimum. In fact some of these pompous stuck up individuals would probably like to line all unemployed up and lock away in concentration camps as slaves to make produce so that they can be rich, fat and sit on their own arse for the rest of their whole lives. They accuse the unemployed as having no excuses whatsover for their being unemployed.

What would you like to do someone who was speaking to you like this - in person?

reply to post by NuclearPaul


Lol, HUH? Did you just say that YOU think that every human on this planet is obligated by their participation in the human condition to provide sustanance and shelter to every other human on this planet? Ergo we would all be legally bound to serve a moral end even though we don't agree with it?


It sounds like slavery through taxation, as it would have to be overseen by .gov to enforce it,as many will not feed another person they feel is lasy, even though they don't know the others situation. Which means eventually everyone would be working so the state could pay hand out their livelyhood communism style. In a three day line for bread, like was seen regularly in the former soviet union.

Just because I don't see it working doesn't make me right, hell i don't have a better idea, other than everyone just shutting TPTB out of OUR WORLD and remaking our world the right way. Then of course they would send in their soldiers to try to force us all back under their boot heal, so a large war would be required. As the people at the top would rather watch it all burn than lose their grip on the populous.

A certain company I will not name, but is supposedly for the GOOD and WILL of the poor people, are doing the same thing. Not sure if it's with unemployment, but for sure TANF. 30 hours a week. A d you had better be clocked out to pee.

The kicker? TANF usually gets paid back through child support! Legal slave labor.

And this:

www.abovetopsecret.com... (Minorities get jobs first)

There's also 2 other very important related threads I'm trying to find, they explain the UK crisis very well.

This ones one of my favorites : www.abovetopsecret.com... (Job corruption in the UK)

www.abovetopsecret.com... (guy gets owned debating about the status of jobs)

reply to post by NuclearPaul

People should not be expected to work to "survive". Human rights like basic food, water and shelter should not be held to ransom to force people to serve the interests of others. If people want to live a simple life without luxuries, they should be able to do so without working. If you want luxuries, then you should work to support the industries that provide them.

How did people survive - in ANY way, shape, or fashion - prior to corporations and various other employers? What about the Inuit, Aborigines, Pacific Islanders, and all sorts of others...are we going to start taxing all those in developed nations to make it so these don't have to work to survive, as well?

Humans have always had to work to live. You shouldn't be able to sit around and do nothing and have all your needs met, unless you're actually unable to take care of yourself - in which case, those better off in society should take care of you.

What...how...this just blows my mind. Call me cruel, but I agree with Paul in the bible when he said "He who does not work, neither shall he eat". I do not understand this mindset that has so perverted human reality and the functioning of the world...yes, we should absolutely work to survive just like *every other living being in existence*.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul

Originally posted by skuly
I can't see companies taking advantage of this in anyway what so ever

That's what happens when people are forced to buy their "human right" of survival anyway.

People should not be expected to work to "survive". Human rights like basic food, water and shelter should not be held to ransom to force people to serve the interests of others. If people want to live a simple life without luxuries, they should be able to do so without working. If you want luxuries, then you should work to support the industries that provide them.

So your not a Truck Driver, Scuba Diver? How do you pay for your computer and Scuba gear if you don't work.

This is sarcasm right?

Humans have always had to work to live. You shouldn't be able to sit around and do nothing and have all your needs met, unless you're actually unable to take care of yourself - in which case, those better off in society should take care of you.

What...how...this just blows my mind. Call me cruel, but I agree with Paul in the bible when he said "He who does not work, neither shall he eat". I do not understand this mindset that has so perverted human reality and the functioning of the world...yes, we should absolutely work to survive just like *every other living being in existence*.

You're missing a few points.

* First, people have been getting laid off by the thousands here in recent years, and there's quite a shortage of jobs. Since 2010, several very large factories have closed in my area, partly because they were owned by multinationals that were screwing a local development grant scheme. I believe the ratio's currently around 60 applicants to 1 low-waged vacancy.

* So why should large companies (especially Tesco and PoundLand) be entitled to free labour, courtesy of the tax payer?

* It pisses on employment rights and a legal minimum wage. Think about that.

* We actually pay into the welfare system during employment through National Insurance, so everyone with a work history is entitled to unemployment benefits.

Just thought I'd add to this, iv been unemployed for two years now.
Had a interview TODAY for a static truckwash member who won a contract at a cement plant called cemex got told out of 40 applicants only me and two other got chosen for a interview.
A hour later I got a phonecall saying I didn't get the job.
In the past two year's iv lost count of how many jobs iv applyed for, I even went to college a got my carpentry level 1 deploma.
My partner was made redundent last year from her job and were reciving jsa as we have two young children.

This whole work experiance crap there advitising in our local JC got moden day slavery writen all over it but if it means my kids have a bed to sleep in and are safe, if it gets put through before I find a job I will HAVE to do it for them.

Benn.
Ps sorry for my spelling.

reply to post by surrealist

Soon the methodology of the Previous Russian Empire that collapsed in 1989-91 may very well re-emerge! That population was assigned where they worked by their government regardless of the hiring entities preferences! That model is really what is needed today in this country so the preferences of the hiring manager can be nullified and individuals can be placed in jobs that they can succeed at! The sooner the better for all concerned!

They already do it in German. You have to work for 1 euro each hour. It doesnt totally destroy the job market

reply to post by Praetorius


When a few sadistic people decide to take away the commoner's rights to grow their own food, have access to water, and create a fake system of wealth then yes PEOPLE SHOULD BE ENTITLED TO BE TAKEN CARE OF AT A NICE QUALITY OF LIFE. How dare you quote the bible when back then they had NOT the technology we have today. There is no need to people to go out in the field and work when we have a fascist world where corporations have used resources against the people and constantly waste and pollute them to enslave the masses. They wanted this nightmare now the friggin chickens have come home to friggin roost. We are not going back and we are going forward. The corporations are SUPRESSING TECHNOLOGY that could make a communal lifestyle pleasant for all but instead allow people like T Boone Pickens to drain ALL the water out of one of the biggest Aquafiers in the Hemisphere, or allow other billionares to dump toxic waste so they can charge people to clean it. Grow the Frig Up.

reply to post by ArchPlayer

Grow the Frig Up.

I suggest you take your own share of your advice with me, friend. Time and experience indicate that if you tell everyone they can sit around and do nothing and have all of their needs met, all too many with do just that. Then they'll also find a way to lie, cheat, and steal to get what they WANT on top of that without having to put out any additional effort.

Then, those who are working to provide for these rest will bear an undue burden and either give up at the unfairness of it, or the whole thing will collapse when the numbers and involved amount of resources simply become unsustainable. It's simply an unfeasible and unfair idea, and I utterly reject it for that reason.

Now, when you devise and implement a workable plan for this fantasy utopia you imagine - whether or not the possibilities might actually exist and are just being covered up doesn't matter in our practical world - let me know and I'll be the first to get on board, preferably as a monitor to ensure the system stays fair and those actually putting in the work aren't essentially robbed.

Until then, it's a pipe dream not much short of boneheaded (despite how lovely it may be in the realm of fantasy), and I hope you'll forgive me for not being too terribly struck by your offense at my post. We already have too many sponging off others, and this silly promise of a labor-free life would make what's going on now look like heaven.

Take care.

reply to post by XeroOne
Xero, sorry I didn't see this previously.

My issue is not with the OP or any other discussions on the thread itself, just what bit I quoted in my post. Your points are valid, as are some expressed by the other poster I just responded to before yourself - things definitely are broken, systems definitely have been gamed and are unfair, and solutions are needed.

My issue lies with somehow promising that everyone can have everything they need at the expense of the rest who are actually willing to work to have more. It's a lovely thought, but it's not one that works for us or our world until some sort of miracles occur.

I suppose I will apologize for any offense my post caused if it was taken out of that context. People being people, though, and all I see is a class of working slaves taking care of everyone else who can't be bothered to put in, which I would assume runs counter to the intended goal.