A Challenge to Chemtrail Believers - Explain this 1969 Issue of Popular Science:

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by seabhac-rua

 

It's coming soon . The work to find a pandemic that will kill large numbers of population such as the recent Dutch scientist development with the Bird Flu ( improvement ) they were raving about is just one effort to kill you . Who knows who else is working on similar projects and why are they working on them and who is paying for it ????
There are reports of deep underground bunkers being built and rich people leaving America . The war brewing in the Middle East is going to affect the USA in a few ways. One is oil the other is a nuclear exchange between Russia and us .

Scientists making killer bugs is nothing new, it's called biological warfare.

Rich people leaving America? Right.

War brewing in the middle east? There's already plenty of war there, and has been for years.

There are huge underground bases all over the US, its no big secret.

What exactly does a standoff between the US and Russia have to do with anything discussed here?

Naming things that suck proves nothing other than that there are things that suck.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


You have it all figured out huh.? Go on with your bad self . When it happens then you will know !

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by seabhac-rua

 

You have it all figured out huh.? Go on with your bad self . When it happens then you will know !

When what happens?

Sometimes I think people like you want bad things to happen so you can gloat "I told you so".

Do yourself a favor my good man and go read a book.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


If ignorance is bliss ,your already in heaven . I've been around long enough to see things change for the worse . If you are born into it you have nothing to gauge by . I don't suppose this soon to come war in the Middle East could impact you or maybe with the US and Russia on opposite sides could land some nukes in your area . I suppose you haven't read where Iran wants to use an EMP on us . Do you even know what that will do ? Ste you beer down and take a look around you .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Yawn - more apocalyptic assertionism - yess all that could happen. And a meteor could crash into my office and kill me in the next 5 seconds.
.
.
.
.
oh look - it didn't......

Not to say that there won't be another war in the Mid East or that nukes won't be used (again) somewhere in my lifetime........but wtf has it got to do with chemtrails?????????

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by seabhac-rua

 

If ignorance is bliss ,your already in heaven . I've been around long enough to see things change for the worse . If you are born into it you have nothing to gauge by . I don't suppose this soon to come war in the Middle East could impact you or maybe with the US and Russia on opposite sides could land some nukes in your area . I suppose you haven't read where Iran wants to use an EMP on us . Do you even know what that will do ? Ste you beer down and take a look around you .

I'm by no means ignorant. And I'm no spring chicken either.

Like I said, there is already wars going on in the middle east, as I'm sure you're aware of. And yes nobody wants to see the Yanks and the Ruskys go toe to toe, let alone when/if it kicks off with Iran.`I was around for the cold war, and I can remember having a real fear of a nuclear war when I was a kid. Change for the worse? That depends on where you live, from my perspective the change for the worse is that there are now too many people on the planet f**king the place up.

Yes, I know what EMP stands for(yawn) and the fact that the Iranians would like to zap someplace in the US with an EMP weapon of some kind doesn't surprise me at all, they don't like America.

What has all this got to do with chemtrails?

I have my beer and I look around, you can do both you know.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


One 1.3 meggaton EMP at the right altitude would knock out most all of the North American Continent . A very small one would knock out all of England . From what I have read Chemtrails have been part of Englands history and now debris trails are used to try to block radiant heat from the sun . A funny thing is that the fermenting process for alcoholic beverages produces a great amount of carbon Dioxide . So they are disbursing debris to shield England from the sun and creating the problem making alcohol .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Sorry - relationship to chemtrails again??

And of course CO2 from alcohol is actually "green" in that it is already aprt of the environment and is not "new" CO2 being taken from under the ground and released into the atmosphere - it has already been "sequestered" into eth sugar from the atmosphere by growing the sugar.

However to whet your thirst for knowledge, some calculations about the amount of CO2 from brewing are given here

Originally posted by seabhac-rua

Originally posted by milominderbinder

one of the defining characteristics of chemtrail is it's tendency to persist in a contrail-like formation far longer what is typical of a standard-issue contrail.

Yes, what is the duration of a 'standard issue' contrail?

In truth, it's in-between these figures.....

zero seconds
5 seconds
30 seconds
60 seconds
2 minutes
5 minutes
10 minutes
1 hour
3 hours
7 hours
10 hours (indistinguishable at that point)

People tend to take note of the extremes and forget the boring middle-land.
So according to many....they're either "none", "under a minute", or "over an hour", when in fact there is a whole range.
It's the "attention-span effect" (deficit) ....and these extremes often molds their opinion on the subject.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by seabhac-rua

 

If ignorance is bliss ,your already in heaven . I've been around long enough to see things change for the worse . If you are born into it you have nothing to gauge by . I don't suppose this soon to come war in the Middle East could impact you or maybe with the US and Russia on opposite sides could land some nukes in your area . I suppose you haven't read where Iran wants to use an EMP on us . Do you even know what that will do ? Ste you beer down and take a look around you .

You're pathetic. Sitting there, WISHING for all this to come true. Don't even try to deny it. In your sick little world, you WANT this to happen. Well, guess what buddy. Wars come and go and people have been saying "things are getting worse" "ive been around a long time and i KNOW" for decades. You dont know. You know nothing other than you want to scaremonger and live in your own little fantasy world. Well, good luck. Just remember that you are not some all knowing political god, you are a silly little man living in his own little silly world where reality has no bearing.

Pathetic.

Originally posted by SimonPeter
reply to post by seabhac-rua

 

If ignorance is bliss ,your already in heaven . I've been around long enough to see things change for the worse . If you are born into it you have nothing to gauge by . I don't suppose this soon to come war in the Middle East could impact you or maybe with the US and Russia on opposite sides could land some nukes in your area . I suppose you haven't read where Iran wants to use an EMP on us . Do you even know what that will do ? Ste you beer down and take a look around you .

You're pathetic. Sitting there, WISHING for all this to come true. Don't even try to deny it. In your sick little world, you WANT this to happen. Well, guess what buddy. Wars come and go and people have been saying "things are getting worse" "ive been around a long time and i KNOW" for decades. You dont know. You know nothing other than you want to scaremonger and live in your own little fantasy world. Well, good luck. Just remember that you are not some all knowing political god, you are a silly little man living in his own little silly world where reality has no bearing.

Pathetic.

reply to post by 3danimator


What's funny here is your head is so far up your a$$ you can't see it's happening. Wishing and knowing are two very different things. I know and you wish you knew.

Originally posted by fireyaguns
reply to post by 3danimator

 

What's funny here is your head is so far up your a$$ you can't see it's happening. Wishing and knowing are two very different things. I know and you wish you knew.

I can see what's happening. I know what's going on in the world. The difference is i realise that all this # has always gone on and i'm not sitting there wishing for things to go belly up.

Interesting, Peterson is NOT going to the "Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails", even though she was originally listed as a speaker, and her bio is still up there.

www.consciousnessbeyondchemtr...lind-Peterson...

Probably a wise move for her, as it's degenerating into a rather fringe event. Alfred Webre is going to be there promoting the theory that chemtrails are there in part to hide the planet Nibiru.

You can say it isn't chemtrails, just as easy as it is for someone to say it is, the fact of the matter is NO ONE can be sure. hell for all you know there could be a giant bunny in your computer that turns invisible every time you check under the case. My point though is you're wasting your time trying to disprove something to people who already have their minds made up, and judging by your avatar you love to disprove this theory every chance you get.

But that's the point. Anyone can say anything, absolutely anything at all. I can say that The story of Hansel and Gretel is a cover story put out by the PTB to throw everyone off the scent and that the outer walls of my house are brown in colour, therefore my house is made of chocolate. I could even support that theory by posting pictures of differently shaped pieces of chocolate that proves "they" have been experimenting with chocolate shapes and so that proves my house could be made of chocolate. Its all rubbish of course, but I can say it.

That's why the position of many debunkers like myself is not to say that chemtrails cannot be done. We KNOW they could be. The question is are they?

Patents prove an idea was thought of, aerial spraying and cloud seeding are well known and understood in their methodology and general objectives, which also tells us WHY those things cannot be chemtrails, however despite the claims of chemtrailers that chemtrails have been sprayed for nearly 20 years now there is still not one shred of evidence that they exist at all BEYOND being a theoretical proposal.

The evidence for chemtrails is so sparse that we see photographs of ballast test aircraft, standard air force tankers, water bombers and especially just regular contrails all put forward as 'evidence' when in truth they are unrelated to what the theory is supposed to be.

We have exposes where it turns out that 'confession' videos were mistranslated (Duppel) or it turns out that test results are actually completely normal but reported in a sensationalist manner without any context just to scare people (WITWATS). in the absence of real evidence we see speculation about what MIGHT be being sprayed and what MIGHT be the objective, all without actually making a case that anything actually IS happening. A recently posted weatherman video is a good example, he makes several claims about activity and motive without even once making out a case for anything he says, he simply claims it.

On the flip side we have intelligent and articulate members such as Phage and Uncinus amongst several others who post facts that the chemtrailers cannot refute, we even had a challenge on here after yet another attack on the much maligned 'Contrail Science' website for Chemmies to post just ONE factual error from that site.

Can you guess what happened?

Now, of course this doesn't prove chemtrails cant happen, nobody even thinks that, but, when you look at both sides evidence and judging by past track records of both sides of the debate, the balance of probability is very strongly leaning towards chemtrailers being wrong. In fact its nearly horizontal from my perspective.

It is equally telling that when chemmies also complain that they don't 'buy' explanations about traffic volumes or engine types etc because they don't understand it (often freely admitted by them, to be fair) they then just dismiss explanations that are offered by those who DO understand. Its as if they are somehow comforted by chemtrail theory and are uncomfortable when the sand it rests on is brushed away, though I dont claim to understand why that should be, it is just my observation, formed without any supporting evidence and so may be wrong

So back in the 1960's, jet contrails caused sirrus clouds 30 to 40 days a year. In 2012, jet contrails cause sirrus clouds 300 plus days a year. What's different?

Originally posted by banishedfromthisarea
So back in the 1960's, jet contrails caused sirrus clouds 30 to 40 days a year. In 2012, jet contrails cause sirrus clouds 300 plus days a year. What's different?

Ther are 10 times as many jet aircraft in service now

Originally posted by banishedfromthisarea
So back in the 1960's, jet contrails caused sirrus clouds 30 to 40 days a year. In 2012, jet contrails cause sirrus clouds 300 plus days a year. What's different?

First- can you source your claim of "300 plus days year".

I live in one of the MOST heavily used air space in the World and I can go weeks with out seeing any persistent contrails. If fact, I only see them when the atmosphere suggests I might ie: when I see high level cirrus clouds and/or when fronts are approaching.


...and yet....There are exponentially more aircraft in the skies now than in the 1960s...

With the proliferation of air travel- over 30,000 flights PER DAY in the US. Over 5000 planes in the sky at any given moment...there are many more areas that see air traffic now that never did in the 60s...

...and the newer engines create contrails at a wider range of temps than before...

reply to post by banishedfromthisarea


Gauls Boeing graph shows how much air traffic has increased over the decades. Even on routes that existed all the way through this period, smaller, lower flying aircraft such as Dakotas, Convairliners etc have been replaced by larger higher flying jets. These are also now almost exclusively powered by high bypass engines which were only ever seen on very large aircraft like the 747 or Tristar as late as the 1980's when the widespread development of these more efficient types of power plant really got into gear. For an example of this look at the changeover from the 737-200 to the 737-300 in the early 80's. A direct comparison of images on google will show the difference between the narrow diameter older type and the wider modern engine nacelle. The nacelles of the Trent engines on the A380 are about as wide as the fuselage of a 737. That's a lot more air getting the moisture squeezed out it.

These are all contributory factors and examples of what's changed.